On May 2, 8:36 am, The Historian wrote:


I believe Evans is using "selfmate" as a word-play on "suicide", the
old name for such problems. He means Fischer killed himself as
Champion through his actions. I think it's hair-splitting to argue
over the subtleties of the term as used here. But you appear to be
correct. Technically a self-mate requires White to force Black to mate
him against Black's will - the moves are forced. I don't think the
Soviets were unwilling to take the Championship title.

Exactly. If you are going to write a chess book, shouldn't you use
chess terms properly?

On May 2, 9:30 am, " wrote:

Despite Steven Dowd's malicious hair-splitting, most readers
understand that Fischer's selfmate means suicide. Manyplayers don't
even know what a helpmate is.

So anytime anyone corrects Evans, it is malice?

"SBD" wrote in message
...
On May 2, 9:30 am, " wrote:

Despite Steven Dowd's malicious hair-splitting, most readers
understand that Fischer's selfmate means suicide. Manyplayers don't
even know what a helpmate is.

So anytime anyone corrects Evans, it is malice?


Just be glad it doesn't qualify you for "fellow traveler" status.

On May 2, 8:39*am, David Richerby
wrote:
wrote:
" wrote:

Dr. Dowd's once forged my name on a university website. His criticism
is reminiscent of a cable that Winston Churchill once sent ending a
sentence with "of." When a subordinate reminded him that it was wrong
to end a sentence with a preposition, Churchill replied: "Do you see
the kind of idiocy up which I have to put.=94

As I recall, the exact quote was *"Do you see the kind of idiocy up
*_with_* which I have to put.=94

Clearly the `with' is necessary. *But it's not, in fact, clear that
Churchill ever said or wrote anything of the sort.

*http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

The version I heard was "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I
shall not put."

John Savard

On Fri, 2 May 2008 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

On May 2, 8:39*am, David Richerby
wrote:
wrote:
" wrote:

Dr. Dowd's once forged my name on a university website. His criticism
is reminiscent of a cable that Winston Churchill once sent ending a
sentence with "of." When a subordinate reminded him that it was wrong
to end a sentence with a preposition, Churchill replied: "Do you see
the kind of idiocy up which I have to put.=94

As I recall, the exact quote was *"Do you see the kind of idiocy up
*_with_* which I have to put.=94

Clearly the `with' is necessary. *But it's not, in fact, clear that
Churchill ever said or wrote anything of the sort.

*http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

The version I heard was "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I
shall not put."

John Savard

A grammar text? Why do you bring that book I don't want to be
preached to out of up for ?

FISCHER'S SELFMATE

Several readers said they understood "selfmate" to mean only that
Fischer mated himself by handing the title to Karpov without a
fight..


On May 2, 1:05*pm, Mike Murray wrote:
On Fri, 2 May 2008 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:





On May 2, 8:39*am, David Richerby
wrote:
wrote:
" wrote:

Dr. Dowd's once forged my name on a university website. His criticism
is reminiscent of a cable that Winston Churchill once sent ending a
sentence with "of." When a subordinate reminded him that it was wrong
to end a sentence with a preposition, Churchill replied: "Do you see
the kind of idiocy up which I have to put.=94

As I recall, the exact quote was *"Do you see the kind of idiocy up
*_with_* which I have to put.=94

Clearly the `with' is necessary. *But it's not, in fact, clear that
Churchill ever said or wrote anything of the sort.

*http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

The version I heard was "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I
shall not put."

John Savard

A grammar text? *Why do you bring that book I don't want to be
preached to out of up for ?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 2, 9:36 am, The Historian wrote:

. Alas, his selfmate returned the title to the Soviets without a fight.

That is not a selfmate, it is a helpmate. Doesn't Evans at least know
how to use chess language properly?

I believe Evans is using "selfmate" as a word-play on "suicide", the
old name for such problems. He means Fischer killed himself as
Champion through his actions. I think it's hair-splitting to argue
over the subtleties of the term as used here. But you appear to be
correct. Technically a self-mate requires White to force Black to mate
him against Black's will - the moves are forced. I don't think the
Soviets were unwilling to take the Championship title.


Can you explain the part about "against his will"?
What sort of opponent in chess would have the will
to not win? In a chess problem, how is there any
"will" involved whatever?


One other term which springs to mind is a "duck";
this term may be even older than "suicide", and it
certainly applies in many cases with regard to the
world chess championship. Just look, for instance,
at the real reason BF never wrote any more chess
books: *fear* of getting caught in an analytical error.
This kind of irrationality and exaggerated fear may
have been the true culprit; the silly demands and
antics merely the visible signs.


-- help bot

On May 2, 1:05*pm, Mike Murray wrote:
On Fri, 2 May 2008 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:



On May 2, 8:39*am, David Richerby
wrote:
wrote:
" wrote:

Dr. Dowd's once forged my name on a university website. His criticism
is reminiscent of a cable that Winston Churchill once sent ending a
sentence with "of." When a subordinate reminded him that it was wrong
to end a sentence with a preposition, Churchill replied: "Do you see
the kind of idiocy up which I have to put.=94

As I recall, the exact quote was *"Do you see the kind of idiocy up
*_with_* which I have to put.=94

Clearly the `with' is necessary. *But it's not, in fact, clear that
Churchill ever said or wrote anything of the sort.

*http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

The version I heard was "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I
shall not put."

John Savard

A grammar text? *Why do you bring that book I don't want to be
preached to out of up for ?

Some grammar "rules"are insignificant and niggling. The dangling prep
is one of them.

On May 2, 10:30 am, " wrote:

Doesn't Evans at least know how to use chess language properly? --
SBD

Despite Steven Dowd's malicious hair-splitting, most readers
understand that Fischer's selfmate means suicide. Manyplayers don't
even know what a helpmate is.

I think Mr. Parr is getting off on the wrong track.

In fact, in order to understand why KNN vs. K is
not winnable, all decent chess players need to be
familiar with the difference between a helpmate
and a forcible checkmate. This sort of thing is
discussed in the rules of chess, and it relates to
draws, to how to win and to what can be won.


Benko no longer competes very often. Today he is a major problem
composer whose specialty is "helpmates" where both sides collaborate
to find the shortest way to mate. In other words, Black must help
White to checkmate the Black king.

Note here that Larry Evans is quoted (by Larry
Parr) as saying the *shortest* way to mate.


These unusual exercises are ingenious and infuriating. Solving them
forces us to think backwards to envisage a mating pattern and then
reach it the shortest possible way.

Again, LP quotes LE as saying the *shortest*
way to mate.


Here’s how Benko explains this strange art form:

"The helpmate does not conflict with existing rules of play. The
solver must find the only variation leading to mate

But now, Pal Benko is quoted (by Larry Parr) as
saying the *only* way to mate.


— which should be
cleverly hidden by the composer! — and do this with the cooperation of
both sides. Black always moves first and must
cooperate in finding the only sequence leading to checkmate."

Once again, LP quotes PB as saying what he
does is construct problems where there is *only
one* way to (help) mate.


I think this is ample demonstration that some
folks are simply not very astute when it comes to
such things as the difference between selfmate,
helpmate or what have you. But there is no doubt
that in Bobby Fischer's case, Mr. Evans would not
be willing to share any of the credit with the
Soviets, so the term "helpmate" would have
seemed out of place. Remember that the ploy
has always been that BF did everything all by
himself... .


-- help bot

On May 2, 3:09 pm, SBD wrote:

Despite Steven Dowd's malicious hair-splitting, most readers
understand that Fischer's selfmate means suicide. Manyplayers don't
even know what a helpmate is.

So anytime anyone corrects Evans, it is malice?


Precisely; and arrogance as well. I recall a spat
in which Edward Winter submitted a correction of
one or two of Larry Evans' innumerable gaffes,
whereupon the old man began his response by
fuming that EW had "an exaggerated sense of
self-importance". Apparently, some people have
secretly anointed themselves gods, and we, the
humble multitude, only find out about it when we
commit blasphemous acts like correcting any of
their innumerable human-like gaffes.


What I found amusing was where Mr. Evans took
the time in his article to explain to us ignoramuses
exactly what Pal Benko does; unfortunately, LE
appears to be about as clueless as the masses
he looks down his nose upon-- if not more so. Mr.
Parr's quotations revealed a certain inconsistency
that I was not already aware of. Apparently, Mr.
Benko is not satisfied unless there is *only one*
way to (help)mate, while Mr. Evans is lost in a
forest, searching for the "shortest" mate.


-- help bot