Help Bot played against Advance Level and to my surprise win the game.

I find Help Bot created a wall of pawns So that Advance Level which
thinks 18 depth deep could not peneterate the wall. And in the end
Help Bot was able to get one good Combination and win the Game.

Looks like GetClub is still a baby for Help Bot. He played moves in
just 2 min / move while GetClub was thinking 30 min / move. Still Help
Bot was able to find a victory.

(See the Recorded game at Bottom)
----------------------------------------------------

The game was even (equal) till 60 Moves. But after the Queens were
exchanged Help Bot managed to fork Two pawns with rooks and kill one
of the pawn and then in a few moves He got the Queen.

So help Bot win the game in just 68 moves.

There were no Tactical Mistake in this game as Both had equal pieces
till end. But I think there were strategical mistakes by GetClub.

But since this was Advance Level which thinks 18 moves ahead it is
very difficult to win by taking its pieces. So Help Bot was able to
use good strategy in beating the Advance Level.

Game Played between help bot and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...209&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(help bot) -- (advance)

1. c2-c3{26} e7-e5{0}
2. g2-g3{16} Ng8-f6{1548}
3. Bf1-g2{18} d7-d5{1792}
4. d2-d4{34} e5-e4{1724}
5. f2-f3{12} Bc8-f5{2352}
6. Ng1-h3{90} e4-f3{2180}
7. e2-f3{16} Qd8-e7{2268}
8. Ke1-f2{46} Qe7-d7{2420}
9. Nh3-f4{74} Rh8-g8{1344}
10. Rh1-e1{60} Bf8-e7{3106}
11. Nf4-d3{52} Nb8-c6{1464}
12. Nd3-c5{84} Qd7-c8{2474}
13. Bg2-f1{98} Ke8-f8{1502}
14. Nc5-d3{40} Nf6-d7{2138}
15. b2-b3{372} g7-g5{2812}
16. Nb1-a3{184} h7-h5{1852}
17. Na3-c2{92} h5-h4{1862}
18. g3-g4{18} Bf5-e6{1520}
19. Kf2-g2{94} Ra8-b8{2722}
20. Nc2-e3{136} Be7-d6{3254}
21. Kg2-h1{72} Nd7-b6{3970}
22. a2-a4{162} Rg8-g6{1782}
23. Bc1-a3{78} Bd6-a3{1470}
24. Ra1-a3{10} Rg6-f6{1736}
25. Ra3-a2{92} Kf8-g8{2204}
26. Ra2-f2{136} Qc8-f8{1642}
27. f3-f4{64} Qf8-d8{1576}
28. f4-f5{268} Be6-d7{1694}
29. Bf1-g2{112} Rf6-d6{1690}
30. Kh1-g1{120} Qd8-f6{1872}
31. Nd3-c5{44} Qf6-h6{2288}
32. h2-h3{98} Qh6-f6{1536}
33. Rf2-e2{98} a7-a5{1452}
34. Ne3-f1{110} Kg8-h7{1806}
35. Nf1-h2{138} Qf6-d8{2114}
36. Nh2-f3{96} f7-f6{1386}
37. Re2-e3{152} Kh7-h8{3110}
38. Bg2-f1{54} Nb6-a8{2004}
39. Bf1-b5{88} b7-b6{1732}
40. Nc5-d7{38} Qd8-d7{2220}
41. Qd1-e2{138} Rb8-g8{2976}
42. Kg1-f2{102} Qd7-f7{1810}
43. Re3-e6{290} Nc6-a7{1328}
44. Re6-e7{430} Qf7-f8{3652}
45. Re7-e8{74} Qf8-g7{1900}
46. Bb5-d3{132} Rd6-d8{2334}
47. Re8-e6{124} Rd8-d7{1486}
48. Kf2-f1{210} c7-c6{1816}
49. Qe2-f2{122} Qg7-f8{1688}
50. Kf1-g2{260} Rd7-h7{2590}
51. Re1-e2{112} Na8-c7{1938}
52. Re6-e3{2218} c6-c5{2018}
53. Qf2-e1{134} Na7-c6{1702}
54. Bd3-b5{726} c5-d4{2534}
55. Nf3-d4{254} Nc6-d4{1588}
56. c3-d4{32} Qf8-d6{2438}
57. Re3-c3{1130} Nc7-b5{2912}
58. a4-b5{18} Qd6-f4{1476}
59. Qe1-f2{50} Qf4-f2{2484}
60. Kg2-f2{14} Rh7-b7{1764}
61. Re2-e6{66} Rg8-f8{1890}
62. Rc3-c6{82} Rf8-f7{2150}
63. Rc6-b6{102} Rb7-b6{1576}
64. Re6-b6{10} Kh8-g7{2306}
65. Rb6-c6{90} Rf7-e7{2146}
66. Pb5-b6{38} Re7-e4{1832}
67. Pb6-b7{52} Re4-e2{1594}
68. Kf2-e2{8} Kg7-f7{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...209&game=Chess

Since I am very weak player and even cant handle the Beginner Level
which plays in 5-6 sec / move. I do not know much about chess playing
techniques.

But looking at this game can you find any weakness in GetClub Game
that need to be corrected. Since Advance level thinks 18 depth deep it
is very difficult to say a move is wrong by Tactics but still Strategy
mistakes can be found in the game.

Please tell what could have been done by GetClub to win the Game. As
Help Bot created a Wall of Pawns not allowing Advance Level to cross
the board.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Sanny wrote:
There were no Tactical Mistake in this game as Both had equal pieces
till end. But I think there were strategical mistakes by GetClub.

There were plenty of tactical mistakes and strategic ones, too. Looking
at it with a slightly stronger computer program + human insight makes
that quite obvious.

But since this was Advance Level which thinks 18 moves ahead it is
very difficult to win by taking its pieces.

Actually there were some such chances e.g. 42.Re8.

So Help Bot was able to
use good strategy in beating the Advance Level.

That too. In fact he missed quite a few winning tactics, but he didn't
really need them, because of the strategic inferiority of the program.

Game Played between help bot and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...209&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(help bot) -- (advance)

1. c2-c3{26} e7-e5{0}
2. g2-g3{16} Ng8-f6{1548}
3. Bf1-g2{18} d7-d5{1792}
4. d2-d4{34} e5-e4{1724}
5. f2-f3{12} Bc8-f5{2352}
6. Ng1-h3{90} e4-f3{2180}
7. e2-f3{16} Qd8-e7{2268}

Just wrong 7.Be7 is the right move.

8. Ke1-f2{46} Qe7-d7{2420}
9. Nh3-f4{74} Rh8-g8{1344}

The last 3 moves moves by black were just tactically and strategically
wrong (well, okay 8...Qd7 is alright, but both 7...Qe7 and especially
9...Rg8 are not moves one should play). I suppose the computer thinks
there is some inherent value in preventing white from castling, when
really white doesn't need to and black's king is in more trouble here
than white's.

White could have played even more energetically to exploit it (e.g. 13.g4).

10. Rh1-e1{60} Bf8-e7{3106}
11. Nf4-d3{52} Nb8-c6{1464}
12. Nd3-c5{84} Qd7-c8{2474}
13. Bg2-f1{98} Ke8-f8{1502}
14. Nc5-d3{40} Nf6-d7{2138}
15. b2-b3{372} g7-g5{2812}
16. Nb1-a3{184} h7-h5{1852}
17. Na3-c2{92} h5-h4{1862}
18. g3-g4{18} Bf5-e6{1520}
19. Kf2-g2{94} Ra8-b8{2722}

Not sure what else the computer should play and the move might not be so
bad in itself, but this move is a sign of a buggy positional evaluation
algorithm.

20. Nc2-e3{136} Be7-d6{3254}
21. Kg2-h1{72} Nd7-b6{3970}

The black knight has no prospects here.

22. a2-a4{162} Rg8-g6{1782}
23. Bc1-a3{78} Bd6-a3{1470}

The last couple of moves by black were just pointless and strategically
poor, so now white manages to swap off the good bishop of black and thus
makes f3-f4 possible, which 3 moves later gains him an advantage.

I wonder Sanny, do you have an algorithm that gives pieces different
values depending on the pawn structure? Here for example the black
bishop on d6 is better than the bishop on e6. The tricky bit of course
is to assign the right kind of value to this difference compared to
other elements in the game.

24. Ra1-a3{10} Rg6-f6{1736}
25. Ra3-a2{92} Kf8-g8{2204}
26. Ra2-f2{136} Qc8-f8{1642}
27. f3-f4{64} Qf8-d8{1576}

The 27.f4 move is just great for white and he is probably just winning now.

28. f4-f5{268} Be6-d7{1694}
29. Bf1-g2{112} Rf6-d6{1690}
30. Kh1-g1{120} Qd8-f6{1872}
31. Nd3-c5{44} Qf6-h6{2288}

What are all those queen moves meant to be good for? They achieve
nothing and black could be trying to do something more constructive
instead. As it is black is just moving his queen forth and back while
white can calmly improves his position.

I think your computer currently just cannot handle such closed (i.e. the
pawn chains are locked with each other and the pieces are not directly
tangling with each other). While these positions are sometimes quite
even, I think you should program your computer so it avoids them and
heads for positions with more immediate tactics.

32. h2-h3{98} Qh6-f6{1536}
33. Rf2-e2{98} a7-a5{1452}
34. Ne3-f1{110} Kg8-h7{1806}
35. Nf1-h2{138} Qf6-d8{2114}
36. Nh2-f3{96} f7-f6{1386}
37. Re2-e3{152} Kh7-h8{3110}
38. Bg2-f1{54} Nb6-a8{2004}
39. Bf1-b5{88} b7-b6{1732}

This position illustrates clearly what is wrong with blacks play. All of
black's pieces are uselessly hanging around on the queenside and can
hardly move (just look at the knight on a8!). Here black's situation is
hopeless.

40. Nc5-d7{38} Qd8-d7{2220}
41. Qd1-e2{138} Rb8-g8{2976}

Actually now 42.Re8 would have won the knight on a8, but white does not
take that option and will obviously win anyway.

42. Kg1-f2{102} Qd7-f7{1810}
43. Re3-e6{290} Nc6-a7{1328}
44. Re6-e7{430} Qf7-f8{3652}
45. Re7-e8{74} Qf8-g7{1900}
46. Bb5-d3{132} Rd6-d8{2334}
47. Re8-e6{124} Rd8-d7{1486}

Now white should play 48.Bb5 to not allow 48...c6.

48. Kf2-f1{210} c7-c6{1816}

This is a strategically good move by the computer (did I just say
that?!) and now white is only clearly better and maybe not completely
winning any more - unless he spots such a strong move as 49.Ne5 (wins).

49. Qe2-f2{122} Qg7-f8{1688}
50. Kf1-g2{260} Rd7-h7{2590}

What kind of move is that? Obviously one needs to play 50.Nc7, I would
have thought that was part of the point of 48...c6 (which I praised
above), but clearly the computer played the right move for the wrong
reasons 3 moves ago. Regarind 50...Rh7: strategically it's insane and
tactically it's wrong, even if white doesn't punish it (as he could
have) with 51.Nxg5 fxg5 52.f6 Rf7 53.Re7!.

Now white actually makes a few strategic mistakes and black gets a
nearly playable position again.

51. Re1-e2{112} Na8-c7{1938}
52. Re6-e3{2218} c6-c5{2018}
53. Qf2-e1{134} Na7-c6{1702}
54. Bd3-b5{726} c5-d4{2534}
55. Nf3-d4{254} Nc6-d4{1588}
56. c3-d4{32} Qf8-d6{2438}

Compared to before black has recovered quite well.

57. Re3-c3{1130} Nc7-b5{2912}
58. a4-b5{18} Qd6-f4{1476}
59. Qe1-f2{50} Qf4-f2{2484}

However after being nearly okay 3 moves ago the computer throws it all
away again with three bad moves in a row. If it allegedly looks 18 moves
ahead, then it should somehow suspect that it will loose some pawns now.
Or maybe it sees too many moves inbetween, in which case your position
evaluation algorithm should have some warning signs flashing: White
controls both open files, white has a space advantage, the pawns b6, f6
and d5 are weak and black has no active play. This position is once more
completely winning for white.

60. Kg2-f2{14} Rh7-b7{1764}
61. Re2-e6{66} Rg8-f8{1890}
62. Rc3-c6{82} Rf8-f7{2150}

So, the computer was unable to spot that he was going to loose pawns now???

63. Rc6-b6{102} Rb7-b6{1576}
64. Re6-b6{10} Kh8-g7{2306}
65. Rb6-c6{90} Rf7-e7{2146}
66. Pb5-b6{38} Re7-e4{1832}

This is a huge tactical blunder. 66...Re8 keeps the game going for longer.

67. Pb6-b7{52} Re4-e2{1594}

Even more bizarre for a computer, this is a helpmate in 4, as opposed to
playing on for much longer after (the equally hopeless) 67...Re8.

68. Kf2-e2{8} Kg7-f7{0}

But looking at this game can you find any weakness in GetClub Game
that need to be corrected. Since Advance level thinks 18 depth deep it
is very difficult to say a move is wrong by Tactics but still Strategy
mistakes can be found in the game.

There's plenty of both and if he had played against an opponent that he
takes more seriously helpbot might have spotted some of the tactics he
missed, but I guess he played this game while doing some other work on
his computer (as I usually do when playing this program) and only
switched the the program window when the computer had moved, thought for
a moment and then went back to his work.

Please tell what could have been done by GetClub to win the Game. As
Help Bot created a Wall of Pawns not allowing Advance Level to cross
the board.

GetClub was never even close to winning. The only time he had a chance
for a fully acceptable position was on move 7 with 7...Be7. After that
the white advantage fluctuated between completely winning and just a bit
better, but the computer never did anything active himself, so there was
never any danger to white and he was just going to win eventually.

--B

GetClubwas never even close to winning. The only time he had a chance
for a fully acceptable position was on move 7 with 7...Be7. After that
the white advantage fluctuated between completely winning and just a bit
better, but the computer never did anything active himself, so there was
never any danger to white and he was just going to win eventually.

A few improvements were done based on your suggestions Lets see if it
plays better.

I played a game against Rybka. And found Rybka easily won the game
against Easy Level.

Easy level fall in a trap and lost the game.

So despite improvement made Rybka was way ahead in tactics.

Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...227&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (easy)

1. d2-d4{8} d7-d5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{16} Ng8-f6{0}
3. c2-c4{12} d5-c4{34}
4. e2-e3{14} Nf6-e4{22}
5. Bf1-c4{16} e7-e6{20}
6. Ke1-g1{18} Nb8-c6{46}
7. Qd1-c2{14} f7-f5{32}
8. Nb1-c3{12} Ne4-c3{28}
9. b2-c3{12} h7-h6{44}
10. e3-e4{14} Bf8-e7{42}
11. e4-f5{18} e6-f5{38}
12. Rf1-e1{18} Qd8-d6{22}
13. d4-d5{20} Nc6-d8{26}
14. a2-a4{20} c7-c5{36}
15. d5-c6{14} Nd8-c6{24}
16. Bc1-a3{18} Qd6-c7{52}
17. Re1-e7{20} Nc6-e7{24}
18. Ra1-e1{18} Bc8-e6{40}
19. Bc4-e6{22} Qc7-f4{20}
20. Be6-f5{20} Ke8-g8{22}
21. Bf5-e6{16} Kg8-h8{24}
22. Ba3-e7{12} Qf4-c7{48}
23. Be7-f8{14} Ra8-f8{20}
24. Nf3-e5{40} Rf8-f6{26}
25. Ne5-g6{16} Rf6-g6{26}
26. Qc2-g6{36} Qc7-e7{30}
27. Kg1-f1{14} Qe7-f6{20}
28. Qg6-e8{12} Kh8-h7{36}
29. Be6-g8{12} Kh7-h8{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...227&game=Chess

After 16th move Rybka captured a lot of pieces and Easy level could
not do anything.

Do you think this game was lost because of weaker Tactics of Easy
Level. Easy level plays in just 20 sec/ move. It is much faster than
the Advance level which takes 30 min / move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html