"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:16:46 GMT, "Gunny Bunny"
wrote:



"John Fernandez" wrote in message
...
Subject: Tim Hanke Chess Trivia Game
From: "Gunny Bunny"
Date: 7/19/2003 10:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:
gers.com

Sorry,

But I am just coming in on this:

Is Tim suggesting that Frank Camaratto did this with is House of
Staunton
chess stuff ??

Or is it common knowledge that this happened ?

HOS stuff is everywhere in the catalog.

John Fernandez

I know that, the question is did FC abuse his authority by getting free
stuff from the USCF to fund the HOS ?

Very unlikely and nobody has ever made this accusation.

Go and check back issues of Chess Life. The House of Staunton has been
selling premium high-quality chess sets for years before Camaratta was
elected to the board.

Also, Jacques Chess Sets which has the reputation for being the best
quality chess sets has been in business for one hundred years, long
before Camaratta bought the company.

Sam Sloan

I thought that Hanke was making the suggestion that FC was doing this by
calling his spoof Co. the "House of Hanke"

(ASCACHESS) wrote in message ...
I will force USCF to produce my chess trivia game at membership
expense, and feature it on the cover of their next catalog.

Tim Hanke

In the first 100 Days of my regime I plan to --

1. Fill the USCF catalog with products from the "House of Hanke,"

Give Tim credit.
His posts read like Jonathan Swift, just mashing the incumbents for their
ethical chasms.

Rp

Give Jonathan credit.

He would never have split an infinitive like that.

Mh

"George John" wrote in message
. ..

it has no money to do so because it has spent reserved, that could and

This should have been "reserves" (the LMA) instead of "reserved".

George

"George John" wrote in message
. ..

What if this board member strongly advocates the rebuilding of the B&E
business while other critical parts of the business, which have needed
urgent attention for many years, remain effectively ignored, such as the
replacement of obsolete and failing hardware, and software systems that
are
not fit for purpose, malfunctioning, and are largely unmaintainable? What
if this organization's current excuse for not upgrading its systems is
that
it has no money to do so because it has spent reserved, that could and
arguable should have been used for the office upgrade (especially core
systems like membership and ratings), on rebuilding the B&E business
instead?

And what if the moon were made of blue cheese? I think a conflict would be
more like Helen Warren running a competing correspondence business. And what
if the organization chose to promote HOS because they extended terms and
even loaned the organization money when it couldn't take delivery of a COD
shipment from another vendor? You guys are tough. You remind me of the media
that couldn't say enough about the Laci Peterson case until they got the 16
words thing and now is moving on to the Kobe thing. It seems if you don't
have a bitch to pitch you got nothing good to say.

StanB

George John has snipped part of the provision he cites. The clear
intent and purpose of George John's snip is to make it appear that
Frank Camaratta is engaging in an ethical violation by selling chess
sets to the the USCF while Camaratta is on the Executive Board. First,
here is the full text of the provision which George John cites:

"(b) No Executive Board member, or a member of his
immediate family, may profit financially from organizing or directing
a national tournament or activity organized or co-organized by the
USCF, or from any business activity of the USCF, if the Executive
Board or the USCF business office is involved in determining the
arrangements; such restriction applies during the Board members's
tenure and for two years thereafter, with respect to actions taken
during his or her tenure on the Board.. This provision does not apply
if the bid, and all relevant financial arrangements, were finalized
before the member was elected to the Board, and are not changed to his
advantage during his tenure."

I would like to know the history of this provision. I believe that it
was introduced by Tom Dorsch to stop Bill Goichberg from organizing
the US Open and also to stop Bill Goichberg from running for the
Executive Board again. In fact, Bill Goichberg has not run the US Open
nor has he run for the board since this provision was enacted.

However, George John wants to stretch this provision to stop the USCF
from buying chess sets from Frank Camaratta. That was clearly not the
intent of the provision.

Moreover, the analysis which George John provides does not hurt Frank
Camaratta. Rather it hurts George John's new-found friend, Tim Hanke,
because it makes it impossible for Tim Hanke to sell his chess trivia
game to the USCF as long as Hanke is on the board.

Regarding Frank Camaratta, he manufactures and sells Jaques Chess
Sets, which are considered the finest and highest quality chess sets
made. The Jaques Company is more than one hundred years old. Camaratta
bought the company a few years ago. Jaques Chess Sets have been
advertised in Chess Life for the last 50 years. Check the back issues
and you will see. There is no reason why Camaratta's recent election
to the board two years ago should change this long standing
relationship, where the USCF sells Jaques Chess Sets.

Hanke on the other hand says that he has invented a chess trivia game.
The game has never been produced. Not one copy has been sold. Nobody
has seen it. Hanke has not told anybody how this game is to be played.

Yet, Hanke has brazenly stated that now that he has been elected to
the Executive Board, he wants his game to be displayed and sold on the
cover of the USCF catalog. Hanke has even implied that he wants
someone, presumably the USCF, to manucfacture and produce the game.

That clearly creates a conflict of interest, as the term is defined
and explained by George John.

Sam Sloan

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:34:03 GMT, "George John"
wrote:

It may be worth revisiting this issue.

The USCF has a "Standards of Conduct" for its Executive Board. A copy can
be found at:

http://www.uschess.org/org/govern/conduct.html

In this document there is a discussion of COI (Conflict of Interest) issues.

"2) Executive Board members must be motivated solely by the best interests
of the USCF in exercising their duties. Any potential conflict of interest,
whether due to financial, political, personal, geographical, organizational,
familial, or other considerations, must be prevented from affecting any
Board member in the discharge of his or her duties."

Please pay particular note to the word "financial" in the above paragraph.

"(b) No Executive Board member [snip] may profit financially from [snip] any
business activity of the USCF"

I would include the USCF's books and equipment business as a "business
activity of the USCF".

"if the Executive Board or the USCF business office is involved in
determining the arrangements; such restriction applies during the Board
member's tenure and for two years thereafter, with respect to actions taken
during his or her tenure on the Board."

The Executive Board and the USCF business office are involved in determining
the "arrangements" of the B&E business.

" This provision does not apply if the bid, and all relevant financial
arrangements, were finalized before the member was elected to the Board, and
are not changed to his advantage during his tenure."

Since I didn't write this sentence, I don't know if the intent applies only
to tournaments or has broader reach. If it does indeed have broader reach,
I conclude that any B&E contracts between an EB member and the USCF office
would have to have been signed PRIOR to that EB member taking office. Any
changes to the "financial arrangements" after the EB member took office
would be prohibited.

I previously raised these issues on rgcp, and the ensuing discussion did not
resolve these issues to my satisfaction. This portion of the "Standards of
Conduct" is too vague for my satisfaction. Perhaps a HYPOTHETICAL example
will help me gain greater understanding. Assume an Executive Board members
owns a chess equipment business, and there is no prior business relationship
between the USCF B&E business and this person's business. Can this EB
member enter into a direct business relationship with the USCF that causes
him to "profit financially"?

Assume that prior to taking office there were no pages of advertising in the
USCF's B&E catalog devoted to this company's products. Assume an agreement
is struck AFTER the board member took office, and the first seven pages of
the USCF's catalog are now devoted to his company's products? Is there a
potential or real conflict of interest here?

What if this board member strongly advocates the rebuilding of the B&E
business while other critical parts of the business, which have needed
urgent attention for many years, remain effectively ignored, such as the
replacement of obsolete and failing hardware, and software systems that are
not fit for purpose, malfunctioning, and are largely unmaintainable? What
if this organization's current excuse for not upgrading its systems is that
it has no money to do so because it has spent reserved, that could and
arguable should have been used for the office upgrade (especially core
systems like membership and ratings), on rebuilding the B&E business
instead?

George

"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...

-snip-

George John has snipped part of the provision he cites. The clear
intent and purpose of George John's snip is to make it appear that
Frank Camaratta is engaging in an ethical violation by selling chess
sets to the the USCF while Camaratta is on the Executive Board. First,
here is the full text of the provision which George John cites:

"(b) No Executive Board member, or a member of his
immediate family, may profit financially from organizing or directing
a national tournament or activity organized or co-organized by the
USCF, or from any business activity of the USCF, if the Executive
Board or the USCF business office is involved in determining the
arrangements; such restriction applies during the Board members's
tenure and for two years thereafter, with respect to actions taken
during his or her tenure on the Board.. This provision does not apply
if the bid, and all relevant financial arrangements, were finalized
before the member was elected to the Board, and are not changed to his
advantage during his tenure."

I would like to know the history of this provision. I believe that it
was introduced by Tom Dorsch to stop Bill Goichberg from organizing
the US Open and also to stop Bill Goichberg from running for the
Executive Board again. In fact, Bill Goichberg has not run the US Open
nor has he run for the board since this provision was enacted.

However, George John wants to stretch this provision to stop the USCF
from buying chess sets from Frank Camaratta. That was clearly not the
intent of the provision.

If the intent was for this COI provision to apply ONLY to tournaments and
not the B&E business as well, why does it say "or from any business activity
of the USCF"?!!

Moreover, the analysis which George John provides does not hurt Frank
Camaratta. Rather it hurts George John's new-found friend, Tim Hanke,
because it makes it impossible for Tim Hanke to sell his chess trivia
game to the USCF as long as Hanke is on the board.

If I understand this COI policy correctly, Tim would need to strike any
agreement with the USCF concerning his trivia game BEFORE he becomes an
official EB member. He could not do so after he becomes a board member.


Regarding Frank Camaratta, he manufactures and sells Jaques Chess
Sets, which are considered the finest and highest quality chess sets
made. The Jaques Company is more than one hundred years old. Camaratta
bought the company a few years ago. Jaques Chess Sets have been
advertised in Chess Life for the last 50 years. Check the back issues
and you will see. There is no reason why Camaratta's recent election
to the board two years ago should change this long standing
relationship, where the USCF sells Jaques Chess Sets.

Rules are to be followed. Perhaps a current EB member is clearly the best
person to run the US Open or any other USCF tournament, but under the
existing rules, he or she could not do so unless that had been worked out
prior to their joining the Executive Board. The key issue remains, does
this prohibition apply to tournaments only or more broadly to "any business
activity of the USCF"?


Hanke on the other hand says that he has invented a chess trivia game.
The game has never been produced. Not one copy has been sold. Nobody
has seen it. Hanke has not told anybody how this game is to be played.

Yet, Hanke has brazenly stated that now that he has been elected to
the Executive Board, he wants his game to be displayed and sold on the
cover of the USCF catalog. Hanke has even implied that he wants
someone, presumably the USCF, to manucfacture and produce the game.

You seem to have difficulties recognizing when people are joking.

That clearly creates a conflict of interest, as the term is defined
and explained by George John.

If the USCF and Tim entered into an agreement to sell his game AFTER he
becomes a board member, based upon my current understanding of the USCF's
COI rules, I would see that as a COI problem.

George

"George John" wrote in message
. ..

Would it be fair to say that you have read the USCF document in question
and
see no issues whatsoever with any of the current Board members and the B&E
business in light of this document's COI prohibitions. Or, are you just
comfortable with THIS rules violation?

Do you still beat your wife? George, I'm not a lawyer and neither are you.

StanB

"George John" wrote ...

If the USCF and Tim entered into an agreement to sell his game AFTER he
becomes a board member, based upon my current understanding of the USCF's
COI rules, I would see that as a COI problem.

George,

My chess trivia game does not currently exist in salable form, and I have no
plans to produce it, let alone sell it to or through USCF. I wouldn't waste
time discussing it if I were you.

Tim Hanke

"StanB" wrote in message
news

"George John" wrote in message
. ..

Would it be fair to say that you have read the USCF document in question
and
see no issues whatsoever with any of the current Board members and the
B&E
business in light of this document's COI prohibitions. Or, are you just
comfortable with THIS rules violation?

Do you still beat your wife? George, I'm not a lawyer and neither are you.

You are correct that neither of us are lawyers. I take it you aren't
interested in offering a non-legal opinion on this matter, and are content
with heckling those that have a genuine interest in what the USCF's COI
actually is, and helping its leadership identify and avoid any potential COI
issues, something the Board of Delegates have clearly directed the Board to
do.

George

From: "George John"
Date: 21/07/03 04:37 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:


"StanB" wrote in message
news

"George John" wrote in message
. ..

Would it be fair to say that you have read the USCF document in question
and
see no issues whatsoever with any of the current Board members and the
B&E
business in light of this document's COI prohibitions. Or, are you just
comfortable with THIS rules violation?

Do you still beat your wife? George, I'm not a lawyer and neither are you.

You are correct that neither of us are lawyers. I take it you aren't
interested in offering a non-legal opinion on this matter, and are content
with heckling those that have a genuine interest in what the USCF's COI
actually is, and helping its leadership identify and avoid any potential COI
issues, something the Board of Delegates have clearly directed the Board to
do.

George


George,

Stan is an ill-mannered trolling moron. You should know that by now.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P68721555

"I ask you this Bwana Nick, have you ever eaten pygmy?"

StanB Date: 2003-05-25 16:09:56 PST

....is just one example of his devastating charm and dazzling repartee.

Mark