Joshua Houk wrote in message ...
(Scott) wrote in
m:

I voted for Sam Sloan AND Tim Hanke.

Remind me to stay as far away from you as possible.

Joshua Houk
jlhouk#comcast.net


Agreed...let's hope that the disease is not contagious. :-P

O.K.

What will the future hold for chess and
humanity? My predictions: The Middle-East will become a large
expanse of green glass - Europe will continue to be split by culture
and language - but the United States will prosper - spreading our
culture and values throughout the world.

What culture? Culture has died here. All we have is reality television
and the latest "stab your friend in the back for money" game shows where
you win by ****ing you best friend's wife...

What values? The values of the United States went down in flames during
the wake of fear following 9/11. The only thing valued here is money
and the almighty flag - a rag that people are willing to throw away
their rights for...the very rights that rag is supposed to symbolize.

The only things America has to share are greed, avarice, lust, wrath,
gluttony, pride, and envy. Which is truely unfortunate because there is
plenty of potential.

NR

Noah Roberts wrote in message ...
What will the future hold for chess and
humanity? My predictions: The Middle-East will become a large
expanse of green glass - Europe will continue to be split by culture
and language - but the United States will prosper - spreading our
culture and values throughout the world.

What culture? Culture has died here. All we have is reality television
and the latest "stab your friend in the back for money" game shows where
you win by ****ing you best friend's wife...

What values? The values of the United States went down in flames during
the wake of fear following 9/11. The only thing valued here is money
and the almighty flag - a rag that people are willing to throw away
their rights for...the very rights that rag is supposed to symbolize.

The only things America has to share are greed, avarice, lust, wrath,
gluttony, pride, and envy. Which is truely unfortunate because there is
plenty of potential.

NR

I agree...and what was the psychobabble about being the most powerful
and richest nation? Basically the the U.S. represents a big bully that
can't even take care of itself (rather it wants to just beat the hell
out of what it calls "weaker" nations in order to make itself look
good).

"Mr. Hat" wrote in message
om...
Noah Roberts wrote in message
...
What will the future hold for chess and
humanity? My predictions: The Middle-East will become a large
expanse of green glass - Europe will continue to be split by culture
and language - but the United States will prosper - spreading our
culture and values throughout the world.

What culture? Culture has died here. All we have is reality television
and the latest "stab your friend in the back for money" game shows where
you win by ****ing you best friend's wife...

What values? The values of the United States went down in flames during
the wake of fear following 9/11. The only thing valued here is money
and the almighty flag - a rag that people are willing to throw away
their rights for...the very rights that rag is supposed to symbolize.

The only things America has to share are greed, avarice, lust, wrath,
gluttony, pride, and envy. Which is truely unfortunate because there is
plenty of potential.

NR

I agree...and what was the psychobabble about being the most powerful
and richest nation? Basically the the U.S. represents a big bully that
can't even take care of itself (rather it wants to just beat the hell
out of what it calls "weaker" nations in order to make itself look
good).

Spoken by two people who truly have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Regards,

Matt

"Don Mihokovich" wrote in message
om...
_______________________________________
We, the people of the USA certainly aren't perfect and have admittedly
made our share of mistakes from which we will continue to learn and
grow. The flag is not merely a "rag" (your term) but a strong and
powerful symbol of the freedoms for which many of our men and women
have given the ultimate sacrifice for well over 200 years. The core
values adopted by the US Air Force may very well summarize the core
values of our Country, and perhaps even aspirational goals for the
USCF:

Integrity First
Service Before Self
Excellence in All We Do

http://www.usafa.af.mil/core-value/cv-mastr.html

It's easy to be a critic, at least in the USA where you have the
freedom to be one.

KidDon

Well said, Don.

Though I think the Air Force's motto is:

Get the good stuff
Hand down crap to Navy
Ride bike to test physical readiness



Regards,

Matt

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:10:46 GMT, "Matt Nemmers"
wrote:

"Don Mihokovich" wrote in message
. com...
_______________________________________
We, the people of the USA certainly aren't perfect and have admittedly
made our share of mistakes from which we will continue to learn and
grow. The flag is not merely a "rag" (your term) but a strong and
powerful symbol of the freedoms for which many of our men and women
have given the ultimate sacrifice for well over 200 years. The core
values adopted by the US Air Force may very well summarize the core
values of our Country, and perhaps even aspirational goals for the
USCF:

Integrity First
Service Before Self
Excellence in All We Do

http://www.usafa.af.mil/core-value/cv-mastr.html

It's easy to be a critic, at least in the USA where you have the
freedom to be one.

KidDon

Well said, Don.

Though I think the Air Force's motto is:

Get the good stuff
Hand down crap to Navy
Ride bike to test physical readiness



Regards,

Matt

If you are too dumb to read, rite or do rithmetic, you can still learn
how to kill. And if really dumb you can feel exceedingly noble while
doing so.

Heil Dubya.

"Noah Roberts" wrote:

_______________________________________
We, the people of the USA certainly aren't perfect and have
admittedly
made our share of mistakes from which we will continue to learn
and
grow. The flag is not merely a "rag" (your term) but a strong and
powerful symbol of the freedoms for which many of our men and
women
have given the ultimate sacrifice for well over 200 years.

Those sacrifices may have been in vain (assuming you are right and
they
where to protect freedom, some where, most where just wasted). Like
I
said, in the wake of 9/11 we quickly lost many of the freedoms we
had
(or thought we had) and we are quickly loosing the rest. It also
must
be stated that these rights where being wittled away BEFORE 9/11,
that
tradgety just provided a catalyst in which value systems contrary to
our
foundational freedoms thrived.

And it is a rag, it is a piece of cloth. Many people forget that
all
too easily and some are so overcome by flag worship that they would
actually kill someone over it. It may be a symbol, but it is still
just
a rag and is insignificant in importance when weighed against the
foundational ideals of this country - the very ideals that rag is
supposed to symbolize. Someone who really believes in those ideals
would celebrate that flag being burned because it means we live in a
country where the rights of the people outweigh the value of a piece
of
cloth. Unfortunately this is NOT what happens and lawmakers and
other
minions have been trying to take that right away for years; the
latest
attempt an actual ammendment to the constitution.

After 9/11 when I saw all of those people waiving the flag about
while
also screaming for someone to silence anyone who spoke ill about the
president or questioned his integrity I have not been able to look
at
the flag without wanting to scream. I have come to view it as a
symbol
of the continuing collapse of our society. I don't see a free
system of
government, I see 600 people locked away without trial,
representation
by lawyer, or contact with their family members; I see 600 people
that
dissapeared. I see the PATRIOT act, the contined attempt to conceal
facts surrounding the tradgedy of 911, and the rights of everyone in
this country disappearing. I see society blindly saluting this flag
while saying "SHUSH". That is what the flag sybolizes to me; so
when it
comes down to it, I hate the flag.

applause!


It's easy to be a critic, at least in the USA where you have the
freedom to be one.

For now, in some cases. There are too many people, many in high
places,
trying to silence voices of descent among the populace. Hell, my
neighboring state recently tried to pass a law to declair protesting
a
"terrorist activity". Value the fact that I have the right to speak
out
against the actions of my government. For woe is the day when I no
longer can. And I am too afraid that day is nigh on hand.


And if you happen to live outside the US, like if you are a secretary
of state in France or Germany, you better shut up or your country will
be "punished" for not wanting to start a new war (for once).

Sigh!


Bo Persson

What really cracks me up is how the nations who behave like a Democracy and
follow the will of the MAJORITY (such as France and Germany) are criticised,
ridiculed, and hated. The nations who behave like DICTATORSHIPS and go
AGAINST the majority of the population, such as Great Britain, are praised.

I thought the USA was all pro-Democracy. If that`s so, why are they being
so hard on the nations who actually did what the majority wanted, and so
friendly with those who did the opposite?

- Joshua B. Lilly



"Bo Persson" wrote in message
...

And if you happen to live outside the US, like if you are a secretary
of state in France or Germany, you better shut up or your country will
be "punished" for not wanting to start a new war (for once).

Sigh!


Bo Persson

"Joshua B. Lilly" wrote ...
What really cracks me up is how the nations who behave like a Democracy
and
follow the will of the MAJORITY (such as France and Germany) are
criticised,
ridiculed, and hated. The nations who behave like DICTATORSHIPS and go
AGAINST the majority of the population, such as Great Britain, are
praised.

I thought the USA was all pro-Democracy. If that`s so, why are they being
so hard on the nations who actually did what the majority wanted, and so
friendly with those who did the opposite?

- Joshua B. Lilly

Joshua,

All these nations are what is called "representative democracies," that is,
countries in which the people elect representatives to make decisions for
them.

Once elected, these representatives are supposed to use their own judgment,
for better or worse.

Elected officials who rely heavily on polling to make their decisions are
typically derided as spineless or self-seeking.

In other words, most people *expect* elected officials to use their own
judgment (and their better information) to make decisions. Most people only
attack elected officials for thinking independently, when they are greatly
offended by the results of that independent thought....

Tim Hanke

Most modern nations are Republics. But that`s not what US politicians
constantly harp on. They never use the word "Republic", they always say
"Democracy" (but there is no Democracy in the world today, anywhere, and it
would be a terrible thing if there was, "mob rule" superceding any law).
You say they are better informed, but they don`t even recognise the
difference between a Democracy (mob rule) and a Republic. I`m supposed to
trust such people? Especially after reading the 'Patriot Act'?
Elected officials whose purpose is to draft law and policy are
specifically there to carry out what the majority of the citizens desire.
"Independant thought" from such elected representatives usually means,
"increasing the government`s power to the detriment of its citizens or
another nation".

"Mr. Franklin, what kind of government have you given us?"
"An aggressive invasive oligarchy, devoted to the enrichment of
corporations, media control, and the wealth of oil billionairres, madam, if
you can keep it."

I think I translate your message as, it`s "Independant Thought" if a
foreign official goes against the will of his own people to follow the USA`s
newest plan for expanding its commercial interests.


"people elect representatives to make decisions for them"

Representatives are elected to carry out the mechanics of enforcing the will
of the majority of the populace. I don`t want some corrupt idiot lawyer
with his soul in his wallet and an eye for power making decisions for me.


- Joshua B. Lilly




"Tim Hanke" wrote in message
...

Joshua,

All these nations are what is called "representative democracies," that
is,
countries in which the people elect representatives to make decisions for
them.

Once elected, these representatives are supposed to use their own
judgment,
for better or worse.

Elected officials who rely heavily on polling to make their decisions are
typically derided as spineless or self-seeking.

In other words, most people *expect* elected officials to use their own
judgment (and their better information) to make decisions. Most people
only
attack elected officials for thinking independently, when they are greatly
offended by the results of that independent thought....

Tim Hanke