"samsloan" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On Jul 17, 1:17 pm, Jürgen R. wrote:
"samsloan" schrieb im
...

A friend has a Dutch coin from 1646 that was found in a shipwreck off
South East Australia. It is a unique coin. No other has been found
like it. He believes it to be worth $90,000 because the same coin from
1645 is worth that.

Sloan, how can you be so stupid?

For only $50'000 I will make any number of
physically and chemically indistinguishable copies
of your rare coin.

Jürgen R.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience at doing this, Jürgen R.

If not, here is a good chance for you to get into a good little
cottage industry, suitable for a fake and a fraud such as yourself,
Jürgen R.

Sam Sloan

Actually, I thought this would be the logical next step for
you. Once your business selling counterfeit books begins to
flourish you could branch out and counterfeit old coins.
There is much more money and also more jail time in coins.

But unfortunately an uneducated slob like you wouldn't be able to
handle the technical details, and a few night courses at
Lehman College won't be enough to fill the void.

schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
POT, KETTLE

,If not, here is a good chance for you to get into a good little
cottage industry, suitable for a fake and a fraud such as yourself
-- Jürgen R.

It's always amusing to watch a coward who won't identify himself
calling those who sign their real name a fake and a fraud.

Yours, Larry Parr

============================

An old fraud with a petrified brain will read whatever
fits his rigid preconceptions: You are quoting your buddy
Sloan. LOL.

Parr is once again confusing cause and effect.

On Jul 17, 5:43 pm, samsloan wrote:
On Jul 17, 5:16 pm, samsloan wrote:



On Jul 16, 12:21 pm, samsloan wrote: A friend has a Dutch coin from 1646 that was found in a shipwreck off
South Western Australia. It is a unique coin. No other has been found
like it. He believes it to be worth $90,000 because the same coin from
1645 is worth that. He wants to auction it on eBay.

However, he is afraid because of stories he has heard about eBay
regarding coin auctions.

Do you have any suggestions or advice?

Sam Sloan

http://stores.ebay.com/xxcomicsxx-Store

The ship in question was the Vergulde Draeck

Many coins have been salvaged from that ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergulde_Draeck

Sam Sloan

The ship contained eight chests of silver coins worth 78 600 guilders.

In 1931 A. Edwards discovered 40 silver coins in the sand-hills just
north of Cape Leschenault (Green, 1973:272). The wreck was not found,
however, until 14 April 1963 by a group of spear fishermen.

http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/collecti...shipwrecks/Met...

Here is the issue: In the book "Coins of the Dutch East Indies", page
36, published in 1931, it says that no example of this 1646 coin had
been found.

http://books.google.com/books?id=uub...1 0&ct=result

However, the wreck of the "Gilt Dragon" was not found until 1963 and
not salvaged until 1980.

Also, back in the 1600s and later, coins were frequently melted down
to make new coins, which explains why so few of these coins still
exist.

Sam Sloan

In 1931, a young boy, A. Edwards, found about 40 silver coins in the
sand-hills just north of Cape Leschenault (31° 19'). These coins
caused much excitement at the time as their dates ranged between 1619
and 1655, thus indicating that they could belong to the survivors of
the VERGULDE DRAAK. The coins consisted of about 24 Mameita-Gins, a
Japanese coin of the Keicho period ( 1601 to 1685, probably prior to
1650) and about 16 Ducatons and half Ducatons of the Spanish
Netherlands ranging from 1637 to 1655.

The first substantiated report of the discovery of the wreck of the
VERGULDE DRAAK came on 13 April 1963. A group of skindivers from Perth
were spear-fishing on a reef about 12 km south of Ledge Point when the
remains of a wreck were sighted. A superficial examination of the site
revealed cannons, anchors, ballast bricks and elephant tusks, thus
clearly indicating an old wreck, and possibly the VERGULDE DRAAK.

The first material raised for record purposes after the discovery was
an elephant tusk (later identified as African) and some ballast
bricks. In the months following the discovery, a large amount of
material was recovered. Unfortunately there are no accurate records of
what exactly was raised. From newspaper articles, the list includes
four complete 'Bellarmine' jugs and numerous pottery fragments,
several elephant tusks (out of a total noted on the site of about
300), a sounding lead, a pair of scissors, lead, ballast bricks, wood,
a whetstone, a bronze mortar, bearing the inscription' Amor Vincit
Omnia , (Love Conquers All) and many coins.

By 7 May 1963 a total of 231 coins, mainly reals of eight, had been
recovered bearing dates 1644, 1653 and 1654, giving strong support to
the theory that this indeed was the wreck of the VERGULDE DRAAK.

http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voya...lde_draak.html

Now, regarding the claim by Jürgen R. that it is possible to forge
such a coin, I do not believe that this is true. The original molds
for these coins still exist and unless one had access to these molds
it would not be possible to replicate the coin. Anybody can made a
fake coin that would fool an amateur, but a professional would not be
fooled.

Sam Sloan

samsloan wrote:
In 1931, a young boy, A. Edwards, found about 40 silver coins in the
sand-hills just north of Cape Leschenault (31° 19').

That young boy went on to become the founder of the
nationwide chain of Waffle House restaurants.
He wanted to be a Catholic priest but that was
before they allowed sex offenders into the priesthood.
There is a monument to his legacy at the ANA
headquarters in Des Moines, a small Grecian island
off the coast of new Mexico.


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www.LumpyMusic.com

"samsloan" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
1931, a young boy, A. Edwards, found about 40 silver coins in the

[...]

Now, regarding the claim by Jürgen R. that it is possible to forge
such a coin, I do not believe that this is true.

Most of what you believe is nonsense, and so it is in this case.
Counterfeiting coins is as old as minting. There are, in fact,
coin collectors who specifically collect old forgeries.

Here, for your edification, is an amusing book on the career of
a professional 19th-century counterfeiter:

George F. Hill: Becker the Counterfeiter

I know that this book is longer than the comic books you usually read,
but you might consider stealing and publishing it: Don't bother
reading it - just xerox and advertise 'published by Fishi Press'.


The original molds
for these coins still exist and unless one had access to these molds
it would not be possible to replicate the coin.
Anybody can made a
fake coin that would fool an amateur, but a professional would not be
fooled.

You insist upon discussing subjects you know nothing about.

Sam Sloan

The Jürgen and samsloan show...

Just so my program is up to date, would you mind
letting me know which one of you is getting your
dick sucked by Gary Dorman? Sorry I haven't
been following. I stepped out for a beer
and some tasty nachos.


Lumpy

You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.

www.LumpyMusic.com

On Jul 18, 5:34 am, Jürgen R. wrote:
"samsloan" schrieb im ...
1931, a young boy, A. Edwards, found about 40 silver coins in the

[...]

Now, regarding the claim by Jürgen R. that it is possible to forge
such a coin, I do not believe that this is true.

Most of what you believe is nonsense, and so it is in this case.
Counterfeiting coins is as old as minting. There are, in fact,
coin collectors who specifically collect old forgeries.

Here, for your edification, is an amusing book on the career of
a professional 19th-century counterfeiter:

George F. Hill: Becker the Counterfeiter

I know that this book is longer than the comic books you usually read,
but you might consider stealing and publishing it: Don't bother
reading it - just xerox and advertise 'published by Fishi Press'.

The original molds
for these coins still exist and unless one had access to these molds
it would not be possible to replicate the coin.
Anybody can made a
fake coin that would fool an amateur, but a professional would not be
fooled.

You insist upon discussing subjects you know nothing about.

Sam Sloan

In this case, it is true that I know nothing about coins and coin
collecting, but the owner of the 1646 Batavian crown is an expert who
had been involved in coin collecting for 40 years.

There are many Internet websites that will enable even an amateur to
spot most fakes.

http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

Becker, the famous counterfeiter in the book you cite lived in the
1820s when counterfeiting was much easier.

The most common way of making a counterfeit coin is to pour metal into
a mold. The problem is that the metal must be poured through a hole.
Then the metal in the hole itself leaves a patch on the coin. The
counterfeiter will try to file off the mark, but that too will show up
on the coin under a microscope.

Real coins are made with expensive dyes and machines which are beyond
the capacity of counterfeiters.

Sam Sloan

On Jul 18, 5:39 am, "Lumpy" wrote:
The Jürgen and samsloan show...

Just so my program is up to date, would you mind
letting me know which one of you is getting your
dick sucked by Gary Dorman? Sorry I haven't
been following. I stepped out for a beer
and some tasty nachos.

Lumpy

You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.

www.LumpyMusic.com

We do not know who Gary Dorman is nor do we know who Jürgen R. is,
except that we know that Jürgen R. is an Internet gadfly who attacks
everything that I write, on any subject, and once reported that I was
dead.

Sam Sloan

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:09:32 -0700 (PDT), samsloan
wrote:

Real coins are made with expensive dyes and machines which are beyond
the capacity of counterfeiters.

That should make them easy to spot because of the color. Expensive
dyes are good because the result would be a color-fast coin.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida