"I think the ICA is too Chicago-centric." (qcchess)
=============
Maybe ICA should do a mini-something in Cairo just to demonstrate full coverage
of the territory it claims as its domain.

RSHaas

"... and maybe even Kentucky players, if any exist..." (qcchess)
==============
Kentucky has some chess players... way to the east. And when you get into the
mountains of eastern Kentucky there are just tons and tons of players... banjo
and fiddle players.

RSHaas

At least we are becoming more aware of why Illinois is known as the
"Land of Lincoln". It's got a civil war going on just like the one
Lincoln's election precipitated. The clash of big egos is amazing.
Bachler vs. Hart. No such thing as a grey hat. One of them wears white
and the other black, but which one? I found it ironic that Kevin
accused Vince of never admitting when he's wrong. I guess one often
fails to recognize a rival's biggest faults in themselves.
It is scarcer than hen's teeth to ever see the Caveman admit to being
wrong about anything he posts about on this forum.

Best Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Draney wrote in message ...
At least we are becoming more aware of why Illinois is known as the
"Land of Lincoln". It's got a civil war going on just like the one
Lincoln's election precipitated. The clash of big egos is amazing.
Bachler vs. Hart. No such thing as a grey hat. One of them wears white
and the other black, but which one?

What I find interesting is the unstated assumption that ICA needs to
dance to whatever tune Bachler plays on his pipe. The miscommunication
between Bachler and ICA is partly caused by Kevin's famed "accuracy"
in communication, and partly ICA's inability to communicate with a
person who reads that Black is White when it favors him.

I found it ironic that Kevin
accused Vince of never admitting when he's wrong. I guess one often
fails to recognize a rival's biggest faults in themselves.
It is scarcer than hen's teeth to ever see the Caveman admit to being
wrong about anything he posts about on this forum.

Kevin will admit he's wrong about trivial matters. For instance, he
cited an apology for spelling "Brennen" incorrectly as an example of
his admitting error. However, when it comes to important matters such
as this latest ICA fiasco, or his failed presidency, or the failure to
post Nemmer's TLC this spring, or _____________ ("the task of filling
up the blanks I'd rather leave to you"), that is another story.

The bottom line to all this, to all these endless threads of argument and
counter-argument, is that the ICA is in just as much of an organizational
mess as the USCF, with a similar lack of vision or leadership.

Again, we as amateur players must ask ourselves, must we continue to support
these organizations? Is there nothing else, no other option? Do we keep
beavering onward, giving ever-new officers a chance, optimistically spitting
into the wind and hoping that things will improve? Chess players are rapidly
assuming the image of the biggest patsies in the universe. Talk about once
burned, twice shy....we are ten times burned, but never shy.

If you leave it, it will wither away. The best thing that can happed to US
chess right now is the following:

1) Departure of the USCF from FIDE.
2) Restructuring of the USCF to be simply an online-ratings service. No
dues, just an OPTIONAL ratings fee that is levied at tournaments.
3) Replacement of the malfunctioning state organizations with informal
consortia of tournament directors.

If you just have to be a member of something, with a member ID and a
newsletter, join something like the Sierra Club. Give your money to people
who are trying to make the world a better place. ICA or USCF officers do not
qualify in that regard. Just remember: your rating is all you really care
about, and membership in these organizations is not doing diddly for your
rating. Spend the $50 on an hour with a GM.

TMB

In article , Ron Suarez says...
SNIP

For what it's worth Kevin, I have learned quite a bit from the facts
and viewpoints given in this thread. I do not think that you did this
as a try to personally gain over the ICA or any other chess group or
individual.

I think the way the ICA is set up and has been operated, combined with
the fact that Bill Smythe left, created a great coincidence of
occasions that this mixup was formed.

I agree that it was a series of mistakes. Whenever people have a hard time
believing that such things are possible, I think back to the incredible series
of mistakes necessary for an event such as the Titanic. Clearly, such series do
happen.

So instead of trying to fry people, it is better to understand that things
happen without making that acceptable, learn from them, cooperate to resolve the
problem, and move on.

Instead, Vince is only aimed at blaming me. I already took one financial offer
off the table as a result of that. And I also note that NO WHERE in this
situation is ICA living up to their part of the problem. They seem to be ready
to accept us losing money, or Springfield losing money, but not ICA.

Kevin L. Bachler

In article qNjqb.116282$Fm2.104842@attbi_s04, Matt Nemmers says...

"Ron Suarez" wrote in message
news
Snip

I think the way the ICA is set up and has been operated, combined with
the fact that Bill Smythe left, created a great coincidence of
occasions that this mixup was formed.

Why did Smythe leave? I notice he hasn't posted here for quite a while --
unusual for him. He was a regular. Real nice guy, too. What's the haps on
the craps?

He got married and got a life.


Let's face it, if Springfield does some last minute marketing to the
Southern Illinois, Southwestern Iowa and Northeastern Missouri areas
they could easily pull off a very successful event. You should also
market your tournament to the Northern Illinois, Southern Wisconsin
and Northeastern Iowa groups as well as the Northeastern Indiana area.
I think you can indeed do well and I wish you well in that too.

I think you mean SouthEASTERN Iowa and NORTHeastern Missouri, Ron, but I
know what you meant. I think the ICA is too Chicago-centric. I realize
that most tournaments in Illinois happen in and around the Windy City, but I
think that if Ex-Urban organizers would just appeal to a broader range of
players (e.g. Iowa, Missouri, and maybe even Kentucky players, if any exist)
they'd have more success. Sure, Chicago is the nucleus, but it certainly
won't make or break a tournament if you market it right. (The IL Class is
probably an exception though, due to it being a state event.)

I think all we Midwestern players could benefit if we just show more support
for one another's events. I had a handful of players come from Chicago to
play in this year's Sandbothe Memorial, plus a few from Minnesota and
Wisconsin, and I plan on playing in a few Peoria and Quincy tournaments this
year myself. The problem is contacts. Not enough TDs/organizers make an
effort to personally contact some of the known (notorious?) players in
neighboring states, and therein lies a big problem. Sure, it's in Chess
Life and on the IL or IA or MO state websites, but word-of-mouth is still
far and away the best form of advertising. To focus to much effort on what
is perceived as the chess capital in each respective city (e.g. Chicago or
Iowa City) is too short sighted and will end up short-changing you in
turnout if TDs/organizers don't start making some friends. Of course, I
realize that's difficult for a lot of players.

Regards,

Matt

PS. Looking forward to your next trip to Moline, Ron!

Regards,

Ron Suarez





Kevin L. Bachler

In article , Bruce Draney says...

At least we are becoming more aware of why Illinois is known as the
"Land of Lincoln". It's got a civil war going on just like the one
Lincoln's election precipitated. The clash of big egos is amazing.
Bachler vs. Hart. No such thing as a grey hat. One of them wears white
and the other black, but which one? I found it ironic that Kevin
accused Vince of never admitting when he's wrong. I guess one often
fails to recognize a rival's biggest faults in themselves.

Then you missed the part in my posts where I accepted some of the problem. But
you tend to miss that Bruce, and I don't know why.

Perhaps you missed the part where we offered to financially help Springfield?

Where were Vince's similar offers on behalf of ICA and their share of the
problem?


It is scarcer than hen's teeth to ever see the Caveman admit to being
wrong about anything he posts about on this forum.

You see what you want to see.


Best Regards,

Bruce

Kevin L. Bachler

Ron Suarez wrote in message . ..
Snip

And what is clear from this is that you still won't accept your responsibility
or ICA's in the problem. I felt you knew of the dates since I had informed ICA
of the dates. Why do you assume that I would have a need to inform you again,
especially when I was getting more ****ed off at ICA's incompetence?


What I find interesting is that you continue to blame me in spite of information
to the contrary.

Kevin L. Bachler

For what it's worth Kevin, I have learned quite a bit from the facts
and viewpoints given in this thread. I do not think that you did this
as a try to personally gain over the ICA or any other chess group or
individual.

I think the way the ICA is set up and has been operated, combined with
the fact that Bill Smythe left, created a great coincidence of
occasions that this mixup was formed.

The present officers did not operate the vehicle called the ICA as
adeptly as they could have. Certainly someone should have realized
when Bill left that the things he did for the ICA were crucial to the
smooth operation of organized chess in our area. They also failed to
get replacement(s) to immediately take over the important duties. The
time lag in duty assumption created this problem.

Larry was not active enough as the president in this cause. The other
officers really seemed to remain inactive also. Fortunately this is
not a terrible situation in and of itself.

Let's face it, if Springfield does some last minute marketing to the
Southern Illinois, Southwestern Iowa and Northeastern Missouri areas
they could easily pull off a very successful event. You should also
market your tournament to the Northern Illinois, Southern Wisconsin
and Northeastern Iowa groups as well as the Northeastern Indiana area.
I think you can indeed do well and I wish you well in that too.

Regards,

Ron Suarez

I am not sure what you are talking about here Ron. The problem that
Kevin is complaining about occurred back in April when the ICA awarded
a bid to the Springfield Chess Club on dates that Kevin claims to have
previously reserved with Bill Smythe. Bill did not resign until
August. I fully agree that bringing Bill's replacements up to speed
has not been handled very well. There seems to be a similar problem
with getting a replacement for Kevin as webmaster. I could mention
another five to ten problems that are not being handled very well
either. But none of them effected what happened in April. Bill was
on board for the discussions of the Illinois Class and he did not say
anything about Kevin's reservation of the dates.

In looking at some old copies of the ICB, I have run across some
interesting things. It turns out that the announcement that the ICA
was considering bids for the 2003 Illinois Open and Illinois Class
with a February 28 deadline was contained in the issue that was mailed
on January 5, 2003. I don't understand why the ICA officers can be
held responsible for not knowing the contents of some unpublished
calendar when Kevin gets to claim that he did not know about things
that were published in the ICB. I am also baffled at Kevin's claim
that Tim Just was surprised to find that the Illinois Class was open
for bid when he knew about the Illinois Open well enough to make a
successful bid for that.

I don't understand how you can possibly condone Kevin's failure to
raise the issue of these reserved dates for seven months. As a chess
player you understand that some claims must be asserted when you
become aware of them. You cannot claim a threefold repetition or a
touch-move violation after the game is over and you have lost. You
have to claim them at the appropriate time. Kevin could have said
"Hey Bill, don't you remember that I reserved those dates?" Instead
he decided to play "Gotcha!" He didn't bother to tell anyone that he
still intended to run his tournament even though the guys in
Springfield specifically told him that they did not want to compete
with an event in Chicago and the ICA President told him that he did
not want a tournament in Chicago that weekend.

Let me suggest an analogy here Ron. Your wife tells you she has made
tentative plans to have dinner with a friend on a particular evening
and you forget about it. Sometime later, you are presented with the
opportunity to buy expensive front-row tickets to the hottest show in
town on that same evening. You call your wife to tell her about the
opportunity she says "Oh, that's nice," but she says nothing about her
tentative plans so you buy the tickets. On the night of the show she
says she is going to have dinner with her friend. When you demand an
explanation for why she did not remind you before you bought the
tickets, she says, "You should have known." Does she have the right
to be mildly irritated with you for forgetting her plans? Maybe. Is
that any excuse for letting you waste a lot of money? I don't think
so. Does such conduct suggest a mean and vindictive streak? It would
to me.

In any case, it is still not clear to me that the Officer's should
have known about Kevin's claims in the first place. One thing I
noted in looking at the old ICB's is that Bill Smythe would regularly
publish notice of tentative or probable events in his Tour Reports.
It seems to me that Kevin might have noticed whether his event was in
there or not and alerted the ICA to the problem. Once again, how can
the Officers be held responsible for knowing things that aren't
written down when Kevin isn't responsible for knowing the things that
are? But even if it was in the published report, it would have been
no skin off Kevin's nose to let us know there was a problem.

The other thing I would note is that Kevin's administration ran the
Illinois Class on Thanksgiving weekend. I understand that it had been
run on the preceding weekend in years past, but I find it extremely
disingenuous for Kevin to rely on a practice that he himself had not
followed. Shouldn't he have known that the ICA board might want to
reserve the same weekend for the Illinois Class that he had used?

I agree that the ICA has a lot of problems. I would also agree that
there are plenty of people with more experience who would have made a
better officer than me. I actually had no plans to run for the job
before last October. However, when Kevin and Tim quit with less than
three months left in their terms, I was told by the former Secretary
that things were pretty chaotic and he asked me to consider running
for his job. After attending the post-resignation board meeting in
October, I decided to pitch in. Although I was aware of my lack of
experience in chess governance, I thought that the ICA had enough
problems without worrying about finding someone to fill the
Secretary's slot.

When our board took over in January, we were left with a lot of
problems by the previous administration. I am not sure that we have
made any real progress in dealing with them and in some cases we have
probably made things worse. But we awarded the Illinois Class bid to
Springfield because we wanted to make the ICA less Chicago-centric.
We decided not to sanction a tournament in Chicago on the same dates
because we wanted to give Springfield a chance to draw any Chicago
area players who might be willing to go. We informed Kevin of our
decision, but rather than tell us that he felt he had some prior claim
to the dates, he did not say a thing. Moreover, he later claimed that
neither the ICA nor Springfield ever suggested they considered his
event to be in conflict when in fact they both had told him exactly
that in April.

I too am disappointed with how the President handled things when he
found out about Kevin's tournament in August. I wish he had said,
"Why the hell are you doing this? The ICA awarded these dates to
Springfield for the Illinois Class and the ICA wanted them to have the
dates exclusively. Springfield feels they need these dates
exclusively in order for their tournament to succeed." But the point
is that Kevin was told exactly these things in April and he ignored
them. The President's reaction may have been unfortunate but Kevin
has already stated that he did not feel obligated to respect the ICA's
wishes in this matter.

As far as the ICA not putting in any money for its share in creating
the problem, it is somewhat handicapped by the fact that Kevin left
the cupboard pretty bare. However, a couple of the officers have been
actively recruiting people to play down in Springfield and I am hoping
that we will have several carloads going down. If the Springfield
organizers are not satisfied with our efforts, I will personally match
the $100 that Kevin offered to give them.

Your first post to this thread had it right Ron. You may think I am a
prick and an incompetent officer, but I did not give you the
information you put in that post. I assume it came from people you
know and trust. Go talk to them about what I am saying because
listening to Kevin will get you in trouble every time.

Vince Hart

Why don't you just let it go, and move on? Make the ICA something other than
a joke, which is what these endless posts are doing.

TMB