(Parrthenon) wrote in message ...
My answers are a mixed bag:

1. I don't believe The Historian is stalking Mr. Innes' or his family;

2. I believe The Historian wrote squalid stuff and shone as a malignant
spirit;

As usual, proof by assertion. No evidence to back it up.

3. The Parr mind-reading capacity tells me that our Historian does indeed act
in just that fashion and for just that motive. Few things would make him feel
cozier before his Christmas hearth and warm his innards with a feeling of a job
well done during this holiday season than to hear that his efforts have had
tragic issue.

Up to your usual standards for accuracy.

So Liarry, what do you think of Evans' falling for the fake game in his column?

heesh (JimEade) wrote in message ...


Yasser [...] 's been writing crap like this for
some time, but he never bothers to check the facts.
He gets dates wrong, meetings wrong and basically says
things took place that did not, and says things didn't
happen that did. I was there. He wasn't.

Jimmy? Jimmy, your ears are soooooo impossibly loooooong.

The simple fact is that the US does not have
the votes and cannot get them.

And what is the exact meaning of this muddy statement?

If we walk out from FIDE, FIDE will recognize
another organization and the
players will play for that one.

First things first. First the US chess players should get
rid of the imposters like you, who abuse USCF, who do
not implement the USCF players wish. No drug tests
for chess players! Is it clear?!

There is only one way I can see for progress
to take place: The players need to organize
and bargain collectively.

First they need to get rid of any false representation.

Blaming two or three volunteers for an inability
to change world opinion in FIDE is childish and
unproductive.

That's not the issue. The issue is the true
representation, honest. The world will do what the
world wishes. But the American representatives
should follow loyally the wish of the US chess
players instead of being bribed and corrupted
by the Campo like characters and by their own
political FIDE game. The success of a US rep
should be measured not by his "respect" within
FIDE but by the degree and efficiency of
implementing the wish of the US players.
Of the chess players, not of the political,
scheming players.

It is even worse then just casting blame and
finger pointing, however. They lie, and say
we didn't even try. Sheesh.

What a convenient, selfserving statrement.
Worthless.

James Eade

You have lost your face. It's time for you to
take it easy, to relax, to go somewhere else.

Wlod

THE LONGEST GOODBYE CONTINUES

By Larry Parr

Jim Eade, who has said goodbye to this forum 927.86 times (exactly),
continues the longest goodbye on record. There has never been anything quite
like this farewell.

At different times, Mr. Eade has talked about losers in chess, about
losers on rgcp, about his own success, and about how he will get back on the
golf course to spend his time more enjoyably and productively.

Sam Sloan came on rgcp and stated that Mr. Eade is a kept man who lives
off his wife. I responded that everything I know about Mr. Eade indicates that
Mr. Sloan was just plain wrong. Not having seen paychecks, I can't say whether
wife makes more than hubby, but I can say with good reason that Mr. Eade has
been highly successful on his own.

So, then, I have never been one of the scoffers who argued that Mr. Eade
does NOT in truth have something better to do with his time than appear here. I
am certain he does have better things to do with his time.

All of which makes the longest goodbye in perhaps internet history
mystifying.

Wlod takes Mr. Eade to task. I am not going to comment on any point
except the record of our FIDE "team" in NOT fulfilling the Delegates' mandate
given it in resolution No. 64.

Once again, that resolution reads: "USCF's FIDE representatives are
instructed to actively campaign at all FIDE meetings against the practice of
requiring drug testing at any chess tournament or match."

Now, then, Mr. Eade gets this much right: he, Bill Kelleher, and Steve
Doyle are "volunteers" after a fashion, though that word must be understood in
many contexts including being in a position to influence the inclusion of one's
products in the USCF catalogue and taking up positions as resume enhancers,
etc.

What, then, is a "reasonable" amount of effort that we might have
expected from the "volunteers" on our FIDE "team" when fulfilling ADM No. 64
above?

Our team had two years to inform the world of the precise position of
the USCF on testing. Did it ever do so?

No member of our team has claimed to have written a single page or
mailed a single letter or posted a single message actually stating the policy
of the USCF. According to the FIDE reports of our "team," the speeches they
gave called on FIDE to limit drug testing to a minimum. There was no statement
that the USCF opposes drug testing "at any chess tournament or match."

(Mind you, the "minimum" was to be in accord with IOC directives, which
contain no practical limits on drug testing.)

Here, then, is what our "team" did NOT do in a space of two years, even
though ordered by the Delegates "to actively campaign" against drug testing.
Here, then, is what Honest John Fernandez has characterized as an active
campaign that fulfilled the Delegates' mandate.

In two years, our team did NOT:

1. Dispatch a single circular letter to the nations of FIDE outlining
the official American position and seeking support from other nations.

2. Produce a single position paper against drug testing "at any chess
tournament or match," let alone distribute such a paper.

3. Send a single mailing to a single Internet outlet against drug
testing, let alone sending mailings to all major outlets.

4. Participate in a single press conference or even a single Internet
forum, let alone participating in, say, a half dozen on the major outlets over
a period of two years (surely not onerous).

5. Dispatch a single letter or organize a modest phone campaign to form
a caucus of likeminded nations in opposition to drug testing.

6. Hand out so much as a piece of paper at the FIDE meetings presenting
the official American position, let alone engage in the kind of mailings and
handouts typical of what happens in advance of or at meetings of the USCF
Delegates.

7. Call for a meeting of likeminded nations at the FIDE Congress to
present our views and to organize opposition. (Granted, in the absence of
having performed a single task listed in Nos. 1 to 6 above, our "team" had
already presented the USCF with its own carefully tailored fait accompli by the
time of the FIDE meetings.)


Honest John Fernandez tried to defend the above record by arguing that
our "team" did not have the authority to issue letters, write position papers,
and engage in a campaign, though directed to do so by the Delegates. This was
a ludicrously dishonest attempt by Honest John at exculpation. But even were
one to grant it as true, our "team" never sought permission in two years from
the Executive Board to perform any of the above-listed acts.

Honest John and Long-Goodbye Jim continue to issue kudos to each other
and self-congratulatory descriptions of the fine job done by our FIDE "team" in
opposing drug testing. They have no choice. They must. But the truth is that
our "team" ended up SUPPORTING drug testing within the limits of meeting IOC
requirements that are UNLIMITED.

Our "team" members did not want to annoy the leadership of FIDE, each
for his own reasons, and they deliberately sabotaged their instructions to the
point of failing to perform any of the above-listed functions. In their
arrogance, they imagined that they would not be held accountable. (One can
hear Honest John chuckling that they likely will not be held accountable, in
any event.)

The above is the record of what our "team" did NOT do in a space of two
years, though instructed "to actively campaign" against testing "at any chess
tournament or match."

Larry Parr wrote:

Honest John Fernandez tried to defend the above record by arguing
that
our "team" did not have the authority to issue letters, write position
papers,
and engage in a campaign, though directed to do so by the Delegates. This
was
a ludicrously dishonest attempt by Honest John at exculpation. But even were
one to grant it as true, our "team" never sought permission in two years from
the Executive Board to perform any of the above-listed acts.

It would be absurd and a horrible decision for the USCF to let anyone start
writing the official USCF position - other than the USCF EB (NOT its members).

John Fernandez

Wlod the inhaler wrote:

Jimmy? Jimmy, your ears are soooooo impossibly loooooong.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about your nose.

The simple fact is that the US does not have
the votes and cannot get them.

And what is the exact meaning of this muddy statement?


Gee. I'll type very slowly, in the hopes that you can follow along. There is
this little thing called majority rule. If you have the majority of the votes,
you win. The US does not control the majority of the votes in FIDE. It's as
muddy as saying, why doesn't the green party control congress? It's because
they don't have enough votes. Sheesh.


First things first. First the US chess players should get
rid of the imposters like you, who abuse USCF, who do
not implement the USCF players wish.

Earth to Wlod. I'm not involved anymore. Thre is no reason to get rid of me,
because I am not there. Oh, sorry, did I let reality seep in? What was I
thinking! Wlod knows what the players want. Wlod is the implement we need.
He certainly is a tool!


No drug tests
for chess players! Is it clear?!


No, its muddy. US players are not getting tested. Helloooooo!! Despite the
claims that universal drug testing was right around the corner, we've not seen
ANY testing in the US. Knock, knock! Anyone home? There hasn't been any
testing!


First they need to get rid of any false representation.


No, first they need to organize, and stop blaming their failure to do so on
others. What a cop out. By all means get involved, Wlod, the inhaler. I'm
certain your efforts will be appreciated.


That's not the issue. The issue is the true
representation, honest. The world will do what the
world wishes. But the American representatives
should follow loyally the wish of the US chess
players instead of being bribed and corrupted
by the Campo like characters and by their own
political FIDE game.

This is the crux of the matter. You throw words around such as "bribed" and
"corrupted" but you don't provide a single shred of evidence to substantiate
your charges. I was never bribed. I was never corrupted. You single out
Campo, well I raise you a Don Schultz. These guys never figured me out simply
because they could not bribe me. They had nothing I wanted.

You do not know what you're talking about. You ought to have the barest
minimum of human decency to provide some evidence in support of such
allegations as "bribed" and "corrupted".

Instead, it is simply more of the same. Accusations without substance, taken
as fact. The chess world is getting exactly what it deserves. Who in their
right mind would want to represent you?


The success of a US rep
should be measured not by his "respect" within
FIDE but by the degree and efficiency of
implementing the wish of the US players.
Of the chess players, not of the political,
scheming players.


See, it's a bit more complicated than that. If we can't muster the votes, then
we've "stabbed the players in the back", no matter how hard we tried. How can
rational human beings over the age of ten, not understand this? If you don't
have the votes, you don't get to make policy.

You people who blame the USCF's volunteers to FIDE for drug testing, ought to
just as well blame Ralph Nader for the US policy in Iraq. Blame or embrace, I
don't care, the point is that Ralph Nader didn't make the policy and no one in
their right mind would associate that policy with Nader. Yet, that is
precisely what a number of posters are doing.

There is maliciousness out there, a maliciousness that knows better and is
toying with certain naive posters. There are the naive posters, who think
themselves sophisticated, and project there naiveté onto others.

It's not that complicated. It is really quite simple. You have to have the
votes. If you don't, you don't get your way. Nobody stabbed anyone in the
back. Nobody betrayed anyone. We lost. Grow up and accept the fact that you
do not always get your way. Even when you hold your breath and turn blue.



What a convenient, selfserving statrement.
Worthless.


You have lost your face. It's time for you to
take it easy, to relax, to go somewhere else.

Wlod


I have not lost my face. People have lied to you about waht happened, and
you've chosen to believe the lies. That says more about you than it does about
me.

I made the speeches my delegates told me to make. I endured the embarrassed
silences that followed. I then came home to "learn" that I'd apparently never
made those speeches.

A valid criticism would be that I did not win over any votes. An invalid
criticism would be that I did not try. An ugly, sickening lie would be to say
that I stabbed our players in the back. Yet, that is precisely what is being
said.

Ask yourself, were you there, and do you know? If not, get off your high horse
and apologize for your ignorant comments.

James Eade
Remove the Sheesh to respond. Don't worry. Talk happy.

"JimEade" wrote in message
...
Wlod the inhaler wrote:

That's not the issue. The issue is the true
representation, honest. The world will do what the
world wishes. But the American representatives
should follow loyally the wish of the US chess
players instead of being bribed and corrupted
by the Campo like characters and by their own
political FIDE game.

This is the crux of the matter. You throw words around such as "bribed"
and
"corrupted" but you don't provide a single shred of evidence to
substantiate
your charges. I was never bribed. I was never corrupted. You single out
Campo, well I raise you a Don Schultz. These guys never figured me out
simply
because they could not bribe me. They had nothing I wanted.

AND YET: When I asked Jim to investigate Fide Officer's investments in Fide
Commerce - ie, do Fide Officers stipulate producats and hold shares in
companies which sell those products through Fide Commerce, the answer was...

a) an offer to investigate, then
b) there is nothing wrong with that practice, it's normal, then
c) a resentment in my raising the question and name-calling including
"gutter journalism", then
d) name names!

So the very _question_ of corruption could not be addressed. This
unfascinating approach would make any question of corruption moot. Nobody
wants to investigate it.

I personally can't think Jim Eade had anything to do with corruption or
influence peddling, however, I also can't think he would be the person to
investigate it.

HOWEVER: I also cannot credit the excess of gloom and doom here in running a
chess gig in cooperation with players. One requirement is to stick around
and work things out even if they are not favorite ideas.

What it takes to get to YES is for people to honestly own their interests
rather than set up positions from which to lob the usual rhetorical
spit-balls regretting that other people exist.

At least Wlod has the right suspicions about burocrats - its managers that
we want, people employed to do the will of the players. If people wont
actively court players and act on their behalves, then sooooooo
loooooooooooong !

Phil Innes


You do not know what you're talking about. You ought to have the barest
minimum of human decency to provide some evidence in support of such
allegations as "bribed" and "corrupted".

Instead, it is simply more of the same. Accusations without substance,
taken
as fact. The chess world is getting exactly what it deserves. Who in
their
right mind would want to represent you?

heesh (JimEade) wrote in message ...

The simple fact is that the US does not have
the votes and cannot get them.

To this I've rwesponded:

And what is the exact meaning of this muddy statement?

Now Jim says:

[...] There is this little thing called majority rule.
If you have the majority of the votes, you win. The US
does not control the majority of the votes in FIDE. [...]

You seem to see "winning votes", and thus "compromises"...
or in short: political busy work, as the top priority
of a US representative to FIDE.

But The USCF reps should be just this. Very simple.
USCF should be always ready to walk out of FIDE
each time FIDE violates the fundamental principle,
That it exists for individual players, anmd not for
other reasons. USCF should had walked out of FIDE
on many occasions in the past. The chess players
around the world would be grateful.

The international chess community, on its own free
will, gets together because it has a lot of
convergent interests. But USCF should be always ready
to walk out when major freedom principles are violated
by FIDE.


[...] US players are not getting tested. Helloooooo!!
Despite the claims that universal drug testing was right
around the corner, we've not seen ANY testing in the US.

And what about the US players who compete abroad?


See, it's a bit more complicated than that.
If we can't muster the votes, then
we've "stabbed the players in the back",
no matter how hard we tried.

Not true. You don't have to "muster" anything.
You stab the players in the back when they trust
that you will represent their stand but instead
you play your own games.

How can rational human beings over the age of ten,
not understand this? If you don't
have the votes, you don't get to make policy.

You don't understand. You have wrong priorities.
It is not about "winning" and "getting". In the
basic case like drug testing it's simple. We just walk
out of FIDE if FIDE continues its bul****--that's
how it should be done: no politicking, no nonsense.

Regards,

Wlod

(Sam Sloan) wrote in message ...

[...] we can always hope that the day will someday
come when Yasser Seirawan will agree to take the
job of President of FIDE.

Sam Sloan

Why should an honest man go after such a dirty job?

The whole post-WWII FIDE story is horrible.
For years it was but a Soviet puppet. Then
it was the criminal combination Soviets + Campo,
which amopng other things had resulted in a title
match which was started by KGB thugs beating up
the challenger's son. FIDE had violated the human
rights of several strong chess players.

Next you had the underShort World Chimpionships,
where to losers, who lost to Short played for
the Chimp title.

Then you had the whole chimpionship circus for years,
plus financial affairs, ...

I hope that GM Yasser Seirawan will continue
to contribute to the well being of the chess world,
and that he will not take any position within FIDE.

I have hopes that the Chess Players Union will
do a lot of good. I wish them the best. Perhaps
Yasser will find a way to cooperate or even join them.

Regards,

Wlod

PS. Actually you Sam should know better. You yourself
are the one who knows a lot about the FIDE dirt :-)

WLOD IMPALES EADE

By Larry Parr

Wlod is right that if worse comes to worst, we take a walk from FIDE.
But he is wrong IF he imagines that such will be necessary.

If one looks at the history of FIDE's relations with the USCF, one
notices that every time a revolt appears likely in the States, FIDE has
dispatched emissaries thousands of miles to meet with the Policy Board, the
Executive Board or to lobby the Delegates at the U.S. Open.

Why?

Grandmaster Raymond Keene, the chess columnist of The Times (London) and
The Spectator and the overseas International Herald Tribune, has often noted
that Europe has been waiting for a strong American lead on FIDE. And FIDE
fears it.

In the last 20 years, such has occurred only once. In 1995 Fan Adams
led the battle to force the resignation of Florencio Campomanes at a FIDE
Congress meeting in Paris. When the Americans combined with the Europeans,
FIDE's leadership quaked, and a portion of it fell.

FIDE needs the United States now, more than ever. Its legitimacy is at
an historic low; its world title has lost three-quarters of its bid value.
Even now, there is a major GM initiative that may result in the title simply
being yanked away from FIDE, at long last. One certainly hopes so.

So, yes, Wlod is right in principle. Which is good news. But the still
better news is that a strong American presence in FIDE would not lead to our
leaving that organization. It would lead to a new FIDE, probably under a
different name, that has been radically reformed for the better.

A strong American "team" would BUILD something new and far better rather
than merely destroy something that is corrupt and filthy.

But this will never happen with the likes of Mr. Long Goodbye, Steve
Doyle, Bill Kelleher, Robert Tanner and their apologists.

Wlod wrote:

To this I've rwesponded:


But not intelligently.


Now Jim says:

snip
You seem to see "winning votes", and thus "compromises"...
or in short: political busy work, as the top priority
of a US representative to FIDE.


That is one large leap you took there. As IM John Donaldson told me way back
when, the only thing you can do in FIDE is make certain our players get their
titles. He stressed that this would be the only thing possible to accomplish.

That is the main reason for staying in FIDE, so that our players get their
opportunities.

But The USCF reps should be just this. Very simple.
USCF should be always ready to walk out of FIDE
each time FIDE violates the fundamental principle,
That it exists for individual players, anmd not for
other reasons. USCF should had walked out of FIDE
on many occasions in the past. The chess players
around the world would be grateful.


How presumptious of you! I do not think the players would appreciate being
left off of the rating lists, denied invitations and the loss of opportunities.
Now, if an organized union of players adopted that as its official position, I
would be all for it.

I can attest that there was no consensus of opinion from the GMs I spoke to.
Yaz wanted to boycott all events (although he later played anyway) but none of
his peers joined him.

The consequences of walking out do not hit the volunteer representatives to
FIDE, so it is no a question of their individual self-interest. The
consequences git the players. Until you get a clear consensus from them, that
they want us to walk out on FIDE, it is irresponsible to advocate doing so.



The international chess community, on its own free
will, gets together because it has a lot of
convergent interests. But USCF should be always ready
to walk out when major freedom principles are violated
by FIDE.


As I have long argued, the player's must organize and bargain collectively.
When they do so, they will have more control over their fate.

And what about the US players who compete abroad?


Who has been tested? If a US player voluntarily particpates in a tournament
where testing takes place, who are you to deny that player that opportunity?

There is no testing in the US, and the US has no control over what happens in
other countries. Your "take my marbles and go home" approach is irresponsible.


Not true. You don't have to "muster" anything.
You stab the players in the back when they trust
that you will represent their stand but instead
you play your own games.


Once again an accusation without substantiation. You offer no facts!

We did exactly as we were instructed to do. We played no games and we most
certainly didn't stab anyone in the back. You are not telling the truth.


You don't understand. You have wrong priorities.
It is not about "winning" and "getting". In the
basic case like drug testing it's simple. We just walk
out of FIDE if FIDE continues its bul****--that's
how it should be done: no politicking, no nonsense.

Regards,

Wlod


I'm afraid you do not understand the reality of the situation. If the players
wanted us to walk out of FIDE over this issue, then they should've delivered
that message to us. They did not.

If they had done so, I would've been delighted to carry out their wishes. They
didn't.



James Eade
Remove the Sheesh to respond. Don't worry. Talk happy.