"HAASpittle" wrote in message
...

I once visited a local kiddie tournament to see if I could sell health
insurance to some of the parents.

Who are the biggest liars,
1. Car salesman
2. Insurance salesman
3. Real estate salesman
4. Drunk guy at a singles bar
5. Good-looking single woman?

Subject: ICB Advertising Rates

On 2 August 2004 "StanB" replied in
Message-id:



Who are the biggest liars,
1. Car salesman
2. Insurance salesman
3. Real estate salesman
4. Drunk guy at a singles bar
5. Good-looking single woman?



You forgot about
6. CPAs who chair committees of national chess federations who think
they know something about finances, audits and life membership accounts

George Mirijanian

In article , StanB says...


"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...

The tale grows in the telling.

Vince Hart

? Read the meeting minutes, then.

And then debate them with Kevin's spin ad nauseum.

Then ask the meeting attendees. We agreed in the meeting on an amount that I
would contribute to the cost of the mailing based on certain criteria. ICA
officers never provided that criteria. It's pretty straightforward.

--
Kevin L. Bachler

Kevin L. Bachler wrote in message ...
In article , StanB says...


"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...

The tale grows in the telling.

Vince Hart

? Read the meeting minutes, then.

And then debate them with Kevin's spin ad nauseum.

Then ask the meeting attendees. We agreed in the meeting on an amount that I
would contribute to the cost of the mailing based on certain criteria. ICA
officers never provided that criteria. It's pretty straightforward.

Ever the victim of other's incompetence.

Vince Hart

In article , Vince Hart says...

Kevin L. Bachler wrote in message
...
In article , StanB says...


"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...

The tale grows in the telling.

Vince Hart

? Read the meeting minutes, then.

And then debate them with Kevin's spin ad nauseum.

Then ask the meeting attendees. We agreed in the meeting on an amount that I
would contribute to the cost of the mailing based on certain criteria. ICA
officers never provided that criteria. It's pretty straightforward.

Ever the victim of other's incompetence.

Vince Hart


No one is claiming to be a victim, Vince. Don't you get tired of trying to find
something wrong with everything I say, just because I said it? ICA lost money
here due to someone's incompetence, Vince, not me. Ask Smythe, he was at the
meeting, and I think Brock was also.

--
Kevin L. Bachler

"Miriling" wrote in message
...

You forgot about
6. CPAs who chair committees of national chess federations who
think
they know something about finances, audits and life membership accounts

Yes and I forgot crybabies like George. They can dish it out but they can't
take it.

Kevin L. Bachler wrote in message ...
In article , Vince Hart says...

Kevin L. Bachler wrote in message
...
In article , StanB says...


"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...

The tale grows in the telling.

Vince Hart

? Read the meeting minutes, then.

And then debate them with Kevin's spin ad nauseum.

Then ask the meeting attendees. We agreed in the meeting on an amount that I
would contribute to the cost of the mailing based on certain criteria. ICA
officers never provided that criteria. It's pretty straightforward.

Ever the victim of other's incompetence.

Vince Hart


No one is claiming to be a victim, Vince. Don't you get tired of trying to find
something wrong with everything I say, just because I said it? ICA lost money
here due to someone's incompetence, Vince, not me. Ask Smythe, he was at the
meeting, and I think Brock was also.

What I am tired of Kevin is the way you try to sugarcoat the mess you
left when you resigned as ICA President. Given your successor's
performance, it is possible that the ICA would have been in its
present state even if you had left it humming like a well-oiled
machine, but the fact is that you didn't.

You love to tout your willingness to reimburse the ICA for the costs
of your various projects, but doesn't it say something about how
screwed up the organization is when the president has to reach into
his own pocket in order to fund the banquet, the state championship
and a mailing?

I have talked to plenty of people about how the ICA got where it is
today, including current and former board members. I have no doubt
that there were plenty of problems when you began your term as ICA
President, but I know for a fact that you left it in a state of chaos
when you bailed out.

I am tired of your dishonesty Kevin.

Vince Hart

In article , Vince Hart says...

Kevin L. Bachler wrote in message
...
SNIP


No one is claiming to be a victim, Vince. Don't you get tired of trying to find
something wrong with everything I say, just because I said it? ICA lost money
here due to someone's incompetence, Vince, not me. Ask Smythe, he was at the
meeting, and I think Brock was also.

What I am tired of Kevin is the way you try to sugarcoat the mess you
left when you resigned as ICA President. Given your successor's
performance, it is possible that the ICA would have been in its
present state even if you had left it humming like a well-oiled
machine, but the fact is that you didn't.

Vince, given that you have no sense or knowledge of ICA history or of relative
value of officer groups, how would begin to judge whether I had done a good job
or not? Did I accomplish as much as I would have liked? NO. Was ICA better
off than when I took over? Definitely.


You love to tout your willingness to reimburse the ICA for the costs
of your various projects, but doesn't it say something about how
screwed up the organization is when the president has to reach into
his own pocket in order to fund the banquet, the state championship
and a mailing?

LOL!! Not at all, and this shows your real lack of understanding of the
organizational history. ICA HAS FREQUENTLY had benefactors do things like this,
like Fred Gruenberg. ICA raised most of its money when Al Lossoff was willing
to bid on money-making national-caliber events and run them for the benefit of
ICA.

The banquet HAS ALWAYS been a money loser when run with any class, and the
difference here was that I was willing to pay the extra in order to help it to
be more of a promotional event to help the organization.

WHY WOULD YOU CRITICIZE THAT (other than your love of criticizing me
personally?)

Why would you criticize someone who is willing to help an organization do a
promotional mailing?

Why would you criticize someone who expanded the state championship?


I have talked to plenty of people about how the ICA got where it is
today, including current and former board members. I have no doubt
that there were plenty of problems when you began your term as ICA
President, but I know for a fact that you left it in a state of chaos
when you bailed out.

I bailed out in order to get the Treasurer to meet legal requirements that he
refused to meet prior to that. I begged, cajoled, asked, pleaded and threatened
to resign. NONE of those worked. I finally DID resign and then he did the
necessary paperwork in an effort to get me back.


I am tired of your dishonesty Kevin.


Vince, you label everything I say as dishonest, without bothering to learn any
better. There are always two sides to a story, and you never ask for, or listen
to mine.

Look at the state filings, the tax forms, the lack of planning, the poor
elections, the problems with the treasurer, the lack of an editor, the decline
of membership, the ill-will about ICA around the state.

Who increased the involvement of downstate people in ICA more than any president
in memory, Vince?

Who began regularly including news on downstate clubs in the ICB?

Who stopped holding the banquet at restaurants with wilted lettuce?

C'mon Vince. Get real.

--
Kevin L. Bachler

"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Look at the state filings, the tax forms, the lack of planning, the poor
elections, the problems with the treasurer, the lack of an editor, the
decline
of membership, the ill-will about ICA around the state.

SNIP

So nothing's changed then....?

Regards,

Matt

In article BxQPc.239694$Oq2.75702@attbi_s52, Matt Nemmers says...

"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Look at the state filings, the tax forms, the lack of planning, the poor
elections, the problems with the treasurer, the lack of an editor, the
decline
of membership, the ill-will about ICA around the state.

SNIP

So nothing's changed then....?

Regards,

Matt

Well, it had for awhile, and I do think some people feel better about it. I
hope that people like Joe Guth and Tom Knoedler, while they probably would not
always agree with my decisions, would at least understand where I am coming
from, know that I am honest and direct with them, and am willing to listen to
their issues and try to work out a mutually beneficial solution.

Most of this stuff got fixed, Matt, and in some cases the new officers ignored
the fixed procedure. One thing I had started on, but jettisoned in my
frustration, was a policy and procedure manual for ICA.

It's frustrating Matt. Was the website perfect when I was president? No. But
people also forget that I did the website for years and begged for help for a
long time before I had to let it slide in order to accomplish other tasks. They
forget that, with as little as it had, that the website before I started had
less. They forget that the website also had slightly different goals than the
current site.

Will you be volunteering in Texas?

--
Kevin L. Bachler