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Old February 1st 06, 06:13 PM posted to alt.chess
 
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Default What Happened to Chess?

I was just re-reading Ray Kurzweill's great book from the '80s, "The Age of
Intelligent Machines," in which he predicts that a computer will defeat the
human world chess champion by the year 2000. He then goes on to say:

'As long as there are at least a few humans that can defeat the best
machines, some observers still feel comfortable in citing chess as an
example of high intellectual (and creative!) activity and imagining that
there is some unknown (and possibly unknowable) deep intellectual process
underlying it. A computer world chess champion could radically alter that
perception. It is clear that there will be some significant change in
perception with regard to chess, computers, ourselves, or all three.'

Would anyone care to comment on whether the triumph of computers over humans
in chess has changed anyone's perceptions of chess or intelligence?


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Old February 1st 06, 09:49 PM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

Would anyone care to comment on whether the
triumph of computers over humans in chess has changed anyone's perceptions
of chess or intelligence?

I think Bobby Fischer did a lot to kill Chess in the USA. America thought he
was a big celebrity when he won the World title in 1972, and he was on
magazine covers, TV, and regular national news. Fischer turned out to be the
biggest asshole on earth. I don't remember hearing much on the national news
about chess after Fischer's moronic debacle as World champion.

I think chess has really died as an important sport or game. Too many
weirdoes and assholes are associated with chess. Further, the membership in
Chess Life costs like $59? and for that kind of money parents can subscribe
their kids to 3 other top quality magazine subscriptions.

Local tournaments are usually around $20 for three rounds (and require a
Chess Org membership), and usually the parents of kids that are chess
fanatics are rude assholes and their kids are obnoxious assholes. For $20. I
would rather take my kid to see a movie (and that $30 will cover the
tickets, popcorn and a soda).


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Old February 3rd 06, 12:21 AM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

wrote

I was just re-reading Ray Kurzweill's great book from the '80s, "The Age of
Intelligent Machines," in which he predicts that a computer will defeat
the
human world chess champion by the year 2000. He then goes on to say:

'As long as there are at least a few humans that can defeat the best
machines, some observers still feel comfortable in citing chess as an
example of high intellectual (and creative!) activity and imagining that
there is some unknown (and possibly unknowable) deep intellectual process
underlying it. A computer world chess champion could radically alter that
perception. It is clear that there will be some significant change in
perception with regard to chess, computers, ourselves, or all three.'

Would anyone care to comment on whether the triumph of computers over
humans
in chess has changed anyone's perceptions of chess or intelligence?


Computers calculate. Mathematicians didn't conclude a piece of
wood was more intelligent than they were when the slide ruler
came along.

You can reduce chess to math and logic, so chess and computers
naturally work well together. I see computers as enhancing chess
appreciation.

Ten years from now, my cell phone may be able to beat the world
champion, but IT'S STILL JUST A CELL PHONE. It's not
intellectual or intelligent any more than a motorcycle is a better
athlete than the world's fastest sprinter. (My spell checker just
wanted to replace "cellphone" with "cellophane," proving computers
are only as smart as the humans who make them).

--
Craig Franck

Cortland, NY


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Old February 4th 06, 09:57 PM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

Jocko Homo wrote:
Would anyone care to comment on whether the
triumph of computers over humans in chess has changed anyone's perceptions
of chess or intelligence?

I think Bobby Fischer did a lot to kill Chess in the USA. America thought he
was a big celebrity when he won the World title in 1972, and he was on
magazine covers, TV, and regular national news. Fischer turned out to be the
biggest asshole on earth. I don't remember hearing much on the national news
about chess after Fischer's moronic debacle as World champion.

I think chess has really died as an important sport or game. Too many
weirdoes and assholes are associated with chess. Further, the membership in
Chess Life costs like $59? and for that kind of money parents can subscribe
their kids to 3 other top quality magazine subscriptions.

Local tournaments are usually around $20 for three rounds (and require a
Chess Org membership), and usually the parents of kids that are chess
fanatics are rude assholes and their kids are obnoxious assholes. For $20. I
would rather take my kid to see a movie (and that $30 will cover the
tickets, popcorn and a soda).


While you make some good points, I don't see how this relates to the
poster's question. Also, most movies out today are at least as
obnoxious as Bobby Fischer--and not nearly as intelligent.



John

--


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
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Old February 5th 06, 07:49 AM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

"The Man Behind The Curtain" While you make some good points, I don't see
how this relates to the poster's question. Also, most movies out today are
at least as
obnoxious as Bobby Fischer--and not nearly as intelligent.


Use your imagination, ****tard. And if you are suggesting that I should
spend money to go to a chess tournament so I can bask in the glory of
genius, then you are a good reason why I will never support chess again.
Brilliant assholes are still assholes.




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Old February 7th 06, 07:07 AM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

I would say that the programmers, although not nearly as good as the
Grandmaster chessplayers that are getting beaten by the programs they make..
there is more to making a great chess program than mearly putting a bunch
of code together.

1. Each successive chess program (chess engine is more accurate), can build
and be built using successive knowlege of other programs, and use the
combined knowledge of many chess experts, masters and grandmasters.
2. The programmers are very artful in closing the inherent gaps between
computer knowledge and people knowledge.
A. Chess programs are monsters at tactics, and all the but the best
human players can ever hope to achieve that amount of tactical skill.
B. Humans are much better stratigical players. Chess programmers are
only now starting to up the straticical knowledge of chess programs. I read
someplace that until the IBM match with Kasporav, most chess programs had
about the 1500 elo in stratagy. within 2 years, the best comercial
programs, like Fritz and Shredder and Junior all made quantem leaps in
stratagy. I think Fritz 8 has about the same stratigic ability as an expert.
(and yes, from what I"ve read, Fritz 9 is upping its strategic ability to
around 2350 or even higher, but don't forget its sheer tactic prowess is
leaps and bounds better than its long range stratigic knowledge)

3. Computers have nbo fatigue. A human player, regardless of how good he or
she is, gets fatigued after a while. A 1 game a day match for several days
will still make a player fatigued if the games tend to run long on time.
Controls are often the tradition 40moves in 2.5 hours, then 20moves in the
next 60min, with a final 30min death control after that. That still could
make a game last all but 8 full hours.


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Old February 7th 06, 07:21 AM posted to alt.chess
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Default What Happened to Chess?

You make some good points.
I love playing chessmaster 9000, or now I just got the 10th edition version,
and I even have Fritz 8.

But I play these programs not because I win (and I will lots, but hehe,
never on the highest setting).

But rather as a way to get positive feedback on my ability level, so that
when I play rated chess in Internet Chess Server ICS, or the Free Internet
Chess Server FICS, I can have a ballpark idea about where I should be in the
ratings. (my rating is 1523 atm).
I can beat regularly on Chessmaster, opponents in the 1800 to 2000 range,
but lots less at 2000.

Using the *Kentucky Winchester fomula for deriving my actually skill based
on Chessmaster, subtract 350 from what they think is an opponent rated 1900.

*about shooting straight: When you shoot a rifle, you first need to set the
sight, so that when you pull the trigger, the bullet actually goes where you
see the crosshairs. If you didn't have the option of zero'ing the
crosshairs, eventually you got used to aiming the gun to a different spot
than whre the bullet would actually land.

Plus, Chessmaster has a bunch of really good lessons on it.



"Craig Franck" wrote in message
news:ZlxEf.3495$%[email protected]
wrote

I was just re-reading Ray Kurzweill's great book from the '80s, "The Age
of
Intelligent Machines," in which he predicts that a computer will defeat
the
human world chess champion by the year 2000. He then goes on to say:

'As long as there are at least a few humans that can defeat the best
machines, some observers still feel comfortable in citing chess as an
example of high intellectual (and creative!) activity and imagining that
there is some unknown (and possibly unknowable) deep intellectual process
underlying it. A computer world chess champion could radically alter that
perception. It is clear that there will be some significant change in
perception with regard to chess, computers, ourselves, or all three.'

Would anyone care to comment on whether the triumph of computers over
humans
in chess has changed anyone's perceptions of chess or intelligence?


Computers calculate. Mathematicians didn't conclude a piece of
wood was more intelligent than they were when the slide ruler
came along.

You can reduce chess to math and logic, so chess and computers
naturally work well together. I see computers as enhancing chess
appreciation.

Ten years from now, my cell phone may be able to beat the world
champion, but IT'S STILL JUST A CELL PHONE. It's not
intellectual or intelligent any more than a motorcycle is a better
athlete than the world's fastest sprinter. (My spell checker just
wanted to replace "cellphone" with "cellophane," proving computers
are only as smart as the humans who make them).

--
Craig Franck

Cortland, NY



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