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Old April 19th 06, 08:24 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

At 12:58 PM 4/19/2006 -0400, Ernest Schlich wrote:
With the short time frame between receipt and validation, you are
absolutely correct. Placing scaned copies of the petition signatures on
the website is worth considering.

Regards, Ernie


A very serious new controversy has arisen because Ernie Schlich, a
candidate for election to the Executive Board of the United States
Chess Federation, has requested that a scanned copy of all signed
petitions for candidates for election be posted on the USCF website.

I am strongly opposed to this and I strenuously object. I am a
controversial person in the USCF. Everybody knows that. For that
reason, many members are reluctant to sign my petitions. They are
afraid that they will get in trouble with the USCF establishment. For
this reason, I have to constantly assure them that nobody will ever
know that they signed my petition, except for a few members of the
USCF office staff.

This issue first came up in 1996. There was a lot of opposition to my
candidacy. At that time, only delegates and a few voting members could
sign. My opponents demanded a list of names of everybody who signed my
petition. Their clear intention was to retaliate against them and have
them removed as delegates for signing. The list was published but it
was decided that in the future there would be no publication of the
names of the signers.

Since then, until now, there has been no call for the publication of
the names of the signers. Signers are afraid not only of being
blacklisted in some way but of their signature being seen as an
endorsement of me.

Ernie Schlich is a USCF insider. He is the assistant director at
almost every major USCF Tournament. He is currently employed by the
USCF, but on a volunteer basis. It has been generally agreed that
since he is a volunteer, the prohibition against a USCF employee
running for election does not apply to him.

However, now Mr. Schlich wants to check the signatures. This is highly
objectionable. Anybody who signed my petition will in all likelihood
be playing in a chess tournament directed by Ernie Schlich. He will be
in a position to affect the pairings and more importantly he will
usually be the arbiter called upon to rule in time pressure disputes.
Anybody who signed my petition will be nervous about the fact that
Ernie Schlich will know that he signed the petition and might rule
against him or retaliate in some way. Please understand that I am not
accusing Mr. Schlich of anything. I am confident that the fact that a
certain person signed my petition will not in any way affect the
ruling Mr. Schlich might make. However, the problem is that the
petition signer himself might be worried about this.

Also, I note that Woody Harris is supporting Mr. Schlich in his
request to check the signatures. Woody Harris is absolutely the wrong
person to be making such a request. As is well known, Woody Harris is
a long time opponent of me. At the 1996 US Open in Alexandria
Virginia, Woody Harris called the cops and tried to have my seven year
old daughter Jessica taken away. Woody Harris is a juvenile probation
officer in Virginia. Had we not realized the danger and gotten my
daughter taken across the state line in time, we might have lost her.

I have already clearly stated that I have no objection to Mr. Schlich
being a candidate, even though he is a volunteer employee of the USCF.
However, now that I find out that he wants to check the signatures on
the petitions, I am forced to reconsider. Since he is an employee, Mr.
Schlich will be seen as a pro-USCF candidate. Mr. Schlich will
continue to work the major USCF tournaments as an arbiter. This gives
him an unfair and unacceptable advantage.

Sam Sloan
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Old April 19th 06, 08:39 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

Much as it pains me to admit, I agree with Sloan on this one. Actual
ballots are kept secret to prevent reprisal for voting decisions, and
signing nominating petitions may carry the same concerns for some
members. I believe it may have a chilling effect and limit
participation. I think we should encourage, not discourage, electoral
participation.

Randy Bauer


Sam Sloan wrote:
At 12:58 PM 4/19/2006 -0400, Ernest Schlich wrote:
With the short time frame between receipt and validation, you are
absolutely correct. Placing scaned copies of the petition signatures on
the website is worth considering.

Regards, Ernie


A very serious new controversy has arisen because Ernie Schlich, a
candidate for election to the Executive Board of the United States
Chess Federation, has requested that a scanned copy of all signed
petitions for candidates for election be posted on the USCF website.

I am strongly opposed to this and I strenuously object. I am a
controversial person in the USCF. Everybody knows that. For that
reason, many members are reluctant to sign my petitions. They are
afraid that they will get in trouble with the USCF establishment. For
this reason, I have to constantly assure them that nobody will ever
know that they signed my petition, except for a few members of the
USCF office staff.

This issue first came up in 1996. There was a lot of opposition to my
candidacy. At that time, only delegates and a few voting members could
sign. My opponents demanded a list of names of everybody who signed my
petition. Their clear intention was to retaliate against them and have
them removed as delegates for signing. The list was published but it
was decided that in the future there would be no publication of the
names of the signers.

Since then, until now, there has been no call for the publication of
the names of the signers. Signers are afraid not only of being
blacklisted in some way but of their signature being seen as an
endorsement of me.

Ernie Schlich is a USCF insider. He is the assistant director at
almost every major USCF Tournament. He is currently employed by the
USCF, but on a volunteer basis. It has been generally agreed that
since he is a volunteer, the prohibition against a USCF employee
running for election does not apply to him.

However, now Mr. Schlich wants to check the signatures. This is highly
objectionable. Anybody who signed my petition will in all likelihood
be playing in a chess tournament directed by Ernie Schlich. He will be
in a position to affect the pairings and more importantly he will
usually be the arbiter called upon to rule in time pressure disputes.
Anybody who signed my petition will be nervous about the fact that
Ernie Schlich will know that he signed the petition and might rule
against him or retaliate in some way. Please understand that I am not
accusing Mr. Schlich of anything. I am confident that the fact that a
certain person signed my petition will not in any way affect the
ruling Mr. Schlich might make. However, the problem is that the
petition signer himself might be worried about this.

Also, I note that Woody Harris is supporting Mr. Schlich in his
request to check the signatures. Woody Harris is absolutely the wrong
person to be making such a request. As is well known, Woody Harris is
a long time opponent of me. At the 1996 US Open in Alexandria
Virginia, Woody Harris called the cops and tried to have my seven year
old daughter Jessica taken away. Woody Harris is a juvenile probation
officer in Virginia. Had we not realized the danger and gotten my
daughter taken across the state line in time, we might have lost her.

I have already clearly stated that I have no objection to Mr. Schlich
being a candidate, even though he is a volunteer employee of the USCF.
However, now that I find out that he wants to check the signatures on
the petitions, I am forced to reconsider. Since he is an employee, Mr.
Schlich will be seen as a pro-USCF candidate. Mr. Schlich will
continue to work the major USCF tournaments as an arbiter. This gives
him an unfair and unacceptable advantage.

Sam Sloan


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Old April 19th 06, 08:52 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

On 19 Apr 2006 12:39:46 -0700, "Randy Bauer"
wrote:

Much as it pains me to admit, I agree with Sloan on this one. Actual
ballots are kept secret to prevent reprisal for voting decisions, and
signing nominating petitions may carry the same concerns for some
members. I believe it may have a chilling effect and limit
participation. I think we should encourage, not discourage, electoral
participation.

Randy Bauer


Yup. Possibly some independent agency could check them, but this
might entail significant expense.
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Old April 19th 06, 08:54 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

"Randy Bauer" writes:
Much as it pains me to admit, I agree with Sloan on this one. Actual
ballots are kept secret to prevent reprisal for voting decisions, and
signing nominating petitions may carry the same concerns for some
members. I believe it may have a chilling effect and limit
participation. I think we should encourage, not discourage, electoral
participation.


What is the practice for petitions for normal political elections?

Petitions are different from voting. But There are voters afraid of
reprisal and there are other voters with no such concerns. To win a
contested office, you need every vote you can get, in order to beat
the other person, which means you need the votes of the afraid as well
as the unafraid. Therefore, a secret ballot is necessary, so that
you can get the afraid votes.

With petitions though, you don't need to beat other candidates; you
just need some minimum number of signatures. If that number is low
enough, you can do it entirely with signatues of unfraid voters.

I'd say, do this the same way it's done for actual government offices,
whatever that is.
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Old April 19th 06, 09:14 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

"Paul Rubin" I'd say, do this the same way it's done for actual
government offices,
whatever that is.


The way it is done in Government Offices is that independent groups are
allowed to monitor the vote counts, and the names of petition-signers are
not available to the public, Mr. Limpdick




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Old April 19th 06, 10:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

Paul Rubin writes:

"Randy Bauer" writes:
Much as it pains me to admit, I agree with Sloan on this one. Actual
ballots are kept secret to prevent reprisal for voting decisions, and
signing nominating petitions may carry the same concerns for some
members. I believe it may have a chilling effect and limit
participation. I think we should encourage, not discourage, electoral
participation.


What is the practice for petitions for normal political elections?


I checked on this and in Nebraska nominating and ballot initiative
petitions are a matter of public record. Anyone can go to the Secretary of
State's or the County Election Commissioner's office and inspect them. (The
only limitations our county Election Commissioner makes is that requests
to inspect them cannot interfere with the process of validating the
signatures on the petitions.)

However, the petitions aren't made available on the web.

I suspect that's the case in most other states as well.

I don't see a pressing need to make the petitions available on the
web. Bill Hall has just responded via e-mail to all candidates that he
does not feel putting the petitions on the web is a good idea, either,
and he came up with a good reason why that is inadvisable--it would place
digital copies of people's signatures on the web.

However, election nomination petitions probably have the same status as
other corporate documents under Illinois law, which could mean that USCF
members have a right to inspect them upon request, though they would
probably have to travel to the USCF office at their own expense to do so.

In the years I've been involved with the Bylaws Committee and USCF elections,
I think there have only been two or three requests to see the nominating
petitions for any candidates. Most if not all of them were probably
to see who signed Sam's petitions.
--
Mike Nolan, Chair, USCF Election Committee
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Old April 19th 06, 11:24 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

"Mike Nolan" In the years I've been involved with the Bylaws Committee
and USCF elections, I think there have only been two or three requests to
see the nominating petitions for any candidates. Most if not all of them
were probably
to see who signed Sam's petitions.

Sounds like a blatant attempt by Simplick to intimidate Sam's supporters.


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Old April 20th 06, 01:31 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online


"Sam Sloan" wrote

A very serious new controversy has arisen because Ernie Schlich, a
candidate for election to the Executive Board of the United States
Chess Federation, has requested that a scanned copy of all signed
petitions for candidates for election be posted on the USCF website.


I would sooner expect Raymond Keene to co-author Kasparov's "My Great
Successors -- Tales from the Crib" than for Ernie to act dishonorably based
on someone voting for Sam Sloan (or anyone else). Besides, the pairings are
done by computer.

Posting how people vote (or petition) is poor form, but probably not evil.
What reasons did he give?

adp


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Old April 20th 06, 02:36 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

"Ange1o DePa1ma" Posting how people vote (or petition) is poor form, but
probably not evil. What reasons did he give?


He is searching for sex partners and he figures that most of Sam's
supporters are depraved.


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Old April 22nd 06, 02:00 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online

The petitions were historically public. What you have is a bunch of
dishonest RACIST people in the USCF who want to keep illegal secrets
for their own personal financial gain. Bill Hall wants to line his
pockets. Any information that can be kept secret will be hidden so that
CROOKS like Bill Hall can have someobdy own them a favor.

Marcus Roberts

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Controversy over whether the signed petitions should be posted online Sam Sloan rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 9 April 22nd 06 02:00 AM
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