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Old May 28th 06, 12:29 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

On 27 May 2006 13:20:33 -0700, "cerebus"
wrote:

I think Kirsan will win because as FIDE president he can promise all
sorts of good things to people who support him - he has tremendous
powers of patronage - shall we say, the fact that David Levy, Boris
Kutin and Beatriz Marinello - all of whom have good reasons to support
Bessel are switching to Kirsan I think proves my point.

Cerebus


Thank you for pointing out the excellent article by David Levy at
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3092

However, you greatly misunderstand Levy's article if you think that it
means that Levy supports Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.

Levy does not support Kirsan Ilyumzhinov. Rather, he states that the
system is so rigged and corrupt and unfair that nobody can beat Kirsan
Ilyumzhinov.

Here is a quote:

"As the number of member countries increased steadily, so it
became easier to manipulate the vote. Who would the many small and
impoverished national chess federations vote for? Someone who made it
unnecessary for them to pay their federation's membership arrears, who
travelled to their country at FIDE's expense with gifts of Chess sets
paid for by FIDE, someone who would put one of their officials on a
FIDE committee or arrange for one or more of their players to obtain
FIDE titles due to "exceptional circumstances"? Would the small
impoverished countries vote for such a person, or for his opponent? It
was a "no contest"

Levy also points out that when our friend Narciso Rabell Mendez ran
for President of FIDE, he actually overheard Rabell's campaign manager
offer $3,000 cash to a delegate for a vote. Levy wrote:

" I myself overheard, in the lobby area of the Buenos Aires
Sheraton on the night before voting took place, one member of Rabell
Mendez's election team saying to the delegate from an impoverished
country: "That's right. I'fll pay you the three thousand dollars
immediately after you sign the proxy letter." I would not suggest, for
one moment, that Rabell knew about this deal, but it actually
happened. The result of the voting? On the first ballot Rabell Mendez
scored 31, Olafsson 30 and Gligoric 29. On the second ballot most of
Gligoric's supporters voted for Olafsson, who therefore won
comfortably."

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Old May 28th 06, 01:29 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

"As the number of member countries increased steadily, so it
became easier to manipulate the vote"

Here you go again Sam. Assumption. Gossip. This isn not accurate. The
number of federations is DECREASING in FIDE. Poor countries can't pay
the 500 dollar annual FIDE bill. You people sit here on R.C.P.G. and
wonder why Kirsan wins? Bessel Kok is promising the third world
NOTHING.

This election has NOTHING TO DO WITH AN INCREASING NUMBER OF FIDE
NATIONS.

Kirsan is WRONGLY AND CORRUPLY claiming over 700,000 dollars in assets
on late FIDE dues. Look at the FIDE budget. It is the first annex on
www.fide.com
This money is not collectable.

The FIDE election system is not broken. All we have is a bunch of
SELFISH Americans who care about themselves.

About 1/4 of the earth CAN'T play in the world chess championship!

When a democrat says they will RAISE TAXES, the democrat usually loses.
Bessel Kok is going to lose, becasue he is incapable of offering to
continue the 100,000 dollars a year to developing chess countries in
the form of chess sets, clocks, and free travel expenditures for
crooks, like Allen Herbert.

Kirsan is going to win over 100,000 dollars a year. Kirsans position is
SO POWERFUL he doesn't have to give bribes. He can give out his book.

Had Bessel Kok offered something to the thrid world, he would have had
a chance. The choice for the third world is some money (Kirsan) or no
money (Bessel Kok.)

I have money. If I were broke, wouldn't I have to support Kirsan? I
would....

Marcus Roberts
President
Charleston Chess Association
St Kitts and Nevis

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Old May 28th 06, 02:37 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

The cost to set up a FIDE nation is between 5,000 and 10,000 dollars,
if you don't have to sue FIDE. You gave a bribe price of 3,000 dollars.
You need to adjust that for inflation. This year, with the number of
declared votes supporting Kirsan, no bribes will be offered.

The days of bribery are quickly ending. The IOC requires too much
honesty. If a bribe scandle happened now in FIDE, IOC would have to
expel FIDE. Kirsan can't afford to kill anyone or bribe anyone else.
IOC changes how FIDE must conduct business.

I do not dispute that bribes were at one time in history commonplace.
Today, this is less and less likely.

Bribery in FIDE is like bribery in the US Congress. It happens, but not
that much.

Marcus Roberts

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Old May 28th 06, 05:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

Did Sam overlook this part of David Levy's Chessbase article? This
makes him a Kirsan fan in my view.David Levy wrote:

"So where does that leave FIDE and the upcoming election? Yes, there
are many who have complained about some of Ilyumzhinov’s ideas, and of
the manner in which the World Championship title has been contested
during much of Ilyumzhinov’s presidency. On the other hand, he has
succeeded in reunifying the World Championship title where Bessel Kok
failed. He has poured staggering amounts of money into world Chess. He
has staged, in his own Russian enclave, an Olympiad and some other top
class events, and will be hosting the forthcoming World Championship
match between Topalov and Kramnik for a purse of $1 million. So
although he has many detractors, particularly amongst the world’s Chess
elite, he is undeniably a dynamo in world Chess. And most important of
all, he has the support of the majority of FIDE member nations."

To me this indicates on balance that David Levy is--at the very
least-beginning to switch his weight behind Kirsan-I would say that
these are not the words of a Kok supporter! Indeed I would go further
and say they are the words of a Kirsan admirer.David Levy is of course
free to support whomsoever he wishes;neither kok nor Kirsan is the
devil incarnate -but on past track record I would have expected David
Levy to be with Kok.

Ray Keene

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Old May 28th 06, 05:14 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

You can't blame David Levy. Everyone has to jump ship off the Kok ship
before it sinks. Being in the minority really sucks. You get no credit
for being in the minority.

All dictators have invested money in projects that they control. You
can't blame Kirsan for doing what he is good at, being a chess
dictator. Good things have come to the third world in Chess because of
Kirsan. IOC money has helped chess. Drug tests are all part of the
money chain. Kirsan's next idea will be for you to **** in a cup in
front of a person of the opposite sex to play a game of chess.

The idea of making you **** in a cup in front of another probably
sexually excites Kirsan.

Get ready: PULL OUT YOUR DICK.

Marcus Roberts
President
Charleston Chess Association
Permanent Delegate of Saint Christopher and Nevis to FIDE
St Kitts and Nevis
The West Indies



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Old May 28th 06, 05:22 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

Dear Mr Roberts

we do not know each other -however I very much admire the way you shoot
from the hip and tell it as it is!

Ray Keene

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Old May 28th 06, 05:59 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.puerto-rico
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Default Did Kirsan bribe Beatriz Marinello?

"The IOC requires too much honesty."

You must be kidding. Where was the IOC when Saddam's son was Iraq's IOC rep
and the whole world know about Iraq's torture and mistreatment of their own
athletes when they didn't perform up to par?

The IOC looked the other way.


wrote in message
oups.com...
The cost to set up a FIDE nation is between 5,000 and 10,000 dollars,
if you don't have to sue FIDE. You gave a bribe price of 3,000 dollars.
You need to adjust that for inflation. This year, with the number of
declared votes supporting Kirsan, no bribes will be offered.

The days of bribery are quickly ending. The IOC requires too much
honesty. If a bribe scandle happened now in FIDE, IOC would have to
expel FIDE. Kirsan can't afford to kill anyone or bribe anyone else.
IOC changes how FIDE must conduct business.

I do not dispute that bribes were at one time in history commonplace.
Today, this is less and less likely.

Bribery in FIDE is like bribery in the US Congress. It happens, but not
that much.

Marcus Roberts



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