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Old July 17th 06, 05:39 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

On 16 Jul 2006 16:18:13 -0700, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:


wrote:
Let's say it sells 5,000 copies at retail for $20.00.
The book seller gets a discount of 50% to begin with,
which means $50,000 to the publisher. The author
then gets about 10% (often less) which leaves him
with about $5,000 in royalties for months of work.


"Months of work"? With most Schiller books I've seen, a few days
would suffice, and the activity involved would be better described as
inaccurate copying rather than what is generally understood by the term
"work." Leave us not exaggerate, Larry -- the fact that Schiller has
suffered a stroke has not magically improved the quality of his books.


Taylor Kingston, who has never written a book and barely plays chess,
has the audacity to attack Eric Schiller even while he is in the
hospital in perilous physical condition.

The claim that Schiller writes his books in "a few days" is
ridiculous.

For example, "Standard Chess Openings" by Eric Schiller ISBN
1580420486 is 768 pages of dense MCO Style comumns. That book alone
would have taken ten years for me to write, if I had been willing to
undertake such a project.

Another book is "Gambit Chess Openings" which is another 768 pages.

Then, there is "Unorthodox Chess Openings". This one is only 538
pages.

Then there are about one hundred other books that Schiller has
written. He not only writes about chess. He has a Ph.D. in linguistics
and writes about computational linguistics and Cambodian Languages.

By the way, it is Taylor Kingston a/k/a Edward Winter who claimed that
Kasparov did not write Batsford Chess Openings but that Eric Schiller
did. That work alone was about 500 pages.

Is there not some inconsistancy in your claims?

How do you suppose that Dr. Schiller writes a 768 page book "in a few
days"?

Sam Sloan
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Old July 17th 06, 11:21 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

"Months of work"? With most Schiller books I've seen, a few days
would suffice, and the activity involved would be better described as
inaccurate copying rather than what is generally understood by the term
"work." Leave us not exaggerate, Larry -- the fact that Schiller has
suffered a stroke has not magically improved the quality of his books.


Taylor Kingston, who has never written a book


I have

and barely plays chess,


I do.

has the audacity to attack Eric Schiller even while he is in the
hospital in perilous physical condition.

The claim that Schiller writes his books in "a few days" is
ridiculous.


I'll say only that he's rather prolific.



For example, "Standard Chess Openings" by Eric Schiller ISBN
1580420486 is 768 pages of dense MCO Style comumns. That book alone
would have taken ten years for me to write, if I had been willing to
undertake such a project.


Actually it would take about a year for someone good enough.

I'm doing a book like that.


Another book is "Gambit Chess Openings" which is another 768 pages.

Then, there is "Unorthodox Chess Openings". This one is only 538
pages.


My copy of UCO was a paper-thin book that couldn't have been more than 120.
Maybe he expanded it.


Then there are about one hundred other books that Schiller has
written.


So if each book took a year, is he now 126 years old?

He not only writes about chess. He has a Ph.D. in linguistics
and writes about computational linguistics and Cambodian Languages.


Do the math on how long it takes to produce the chess books.


--
"Google maintains the USENET." -- The Honorable R. Barclay Surrick, Eastern
District of PA Judge
From Parker v. Google, E.D.Pa. #04-cv-3918


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Old July 17th 06, 02:56 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

Skeptic wrote:


A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html


This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me
personally, since I worked through the examples one by one (took, on
and off, several years). It inspired me to buy other combination books
(aside from Reinfield) including the Informant book of combinations.

What a spiteful, insular little group this is... is Kingston really
Winter? I bought Winter's book on historical exposes but have not yet
opened it. Winter is a stickler for detail. You could commend him.
And it raises the academic question: why is so much bile spilt over
chess? Because so little money is at stake. I mean, can you see your
kids becoming chess professionals (or any kind of 'sport'
professionals?)

RL

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Old July 17th 06, 03:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke


raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html


This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.

personally, since I worked through the examples one by one (took, on
and off, several years). It inspired me to buy other combination books
(aside from Reinfield) including the Informant book of combinations.

What a spiteful, insular little group this is...


I would agree that certain people on this group are highly spiteful
and insular.
Or are you saying you consider it "spiteful" to oppose plagiarism and
outright copying?

is Kingston really Winter?


No. That is a fantasy of Sam Sloan's.

I bought Winter's book on historical exposes but have not yet
opened it.


What book would that be? I am not aware of one which specializes in
"historical exposés."

Winter is a stickler for detail. You could commend him.
And it raises the academic question: why is so much bile spilt over
chess?


A good question, one for which I have no solid answer. I would
suggest that perhaps the competitive nature of the game attracts
combative personalities. It also seems to attract more than its share
of hucksters and liars. Naturally when they are faulted or
contradicted, friction ensues.

Because so little money is at stake.


That might partly explain the bile of some whose livelihood depends
on chess. However, there are those who make their living from the game
yet who are not notably splenetic, e.g. IM John Donaldson.

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Old July 17th 06, 03:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

Sam Sloan )
(NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.199.110.255)
wrote (Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:39:14 GMT):

... For example, "Standard Chess Openings" by Eric Schiller
ISBN 1580420486 is 768 pages of dense MCO Style comumns.
...


_
Is that really a correct description?
_
"you're not going to get anything but the
briefest of overviews from SCO on any
opening." - David Surratt (5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm
_
In any event, I, of course, agree that Standard Chess Openings
took more than a few days to write, but Taylor Kingston did
not write about all of Eric Schiller's books. He referred to "most"
of the books that he had "seen". I imagine that TK was thinking
of books like One-move Checkmates or 100 Awesome Chess
Moves rather than SCO, GCO, and UCO.
_
Really, however, I agree with Sam Sloan and others that this is
not the best time for a debate of this sort. Perhaps we can
agree that there is dispute about the amount of time required
to write Eric Schiller books and that the conflicting points have
been adequately made for now.
_
I object to a number of the things that Eric Schiller has done
over the years, but I nevertheless feel moved to seek out and
buy one of his books. Any suggestions? (Only positive ones,
please.) I enjoyed looking at some of the stuff in Whiz Kids
teach Chess, a few years ago.



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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke


"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...

raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html


This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.


--Taylor Kingston makes a charge! Okay - excitment over - Taylor Kingston
makes a vague charge.

Who can these people be? Is the work out of copyright, are the people dead?
You will not receive an answer since it could be wrong, you will receive
some **** about Schiller who just had a stroke, but Taylor Kingston doesn't
care!

PI


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Old July 17th 06, 07:36 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke


Chess One wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...

raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html


This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.

--Taylor Kingston makes a charge! Okay - excitment over - Taylor Kingston
makes a vague charge.


Oh, no, the statement is quite specific.

Who can these people be? Is the work out of copyright, are the people dead?
You will not receive an answer ...


The book in question, The Encyclopaedia of Chess Middlegames (Chess
Informant, Belgrade, 1980), was, I believe, a collaboration between
Matanovic, Krogius, Livsic, Parma, Taimanov and perhaps other Informant
contributors. While chess positions per se cannot be copyrighted, it is
obvious that Schiller simply lifted large portions of the ECM and put
his own name on it. A buyer of Schiller's book in effect paid Schiller
for work done by others.
This is an example of what I meant in reply to Parr's comment about
"months of work" -- that in Schiller's case "days of copying" would be
more accurate.

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Old July 17th 06, 08:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

Why doesn't Kingston stuff it?

Has he no sense of propriety?

Taylor Kingston wrote:
Chess One wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...

raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html

This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.

--Taylor Kingston makes a charge! Okay - excitment over - Taylor Kingston
makes a vague charge.


Oh, no, the statement is quite specific.

Who can these people be? Is the work out of copyright, are the people dead?
You will not receive an answer ...


The book in question, The Encyclopaedia of Chess Middlegames (Chess
Informant, Belgrade, 1980), was, I believe, a collaboration between
Matanovic, Krogius, Livsic, Parma, Taimanov and perhaps other Informant
contributors. While chess positions per se cannot be copyrighted, it is
obvious that Schiller simply lifted large portions of the ECM and put
his own name on it. A buyer of Schiller's book in effect paid Schiller
for work done by others.
This is an example of what I meant in reply to Parr's comment about
"months of work" -- that in Schiller's case "days of copying" would be
more accurate.


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Old July 17th 06, 08:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

Why doesn't Kingston stuff it?

Has he no sense of propriety?

Taylor Kingston wrote:
Chess One wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...

raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html

This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.

--Taylor Kingston makes a charge! Okay - excitment over - Taylor Kingston
makes a vague charge.


Oh, no, the statement is quite specific.

Who can these people be? Is the work out of copyright, are the people dead?
You will not receive an answer ...


The book in question, The Encyclopaedia of Chess Middlegames (Chess
Informant, Belgrade, 1980), was, I believe, a collaboration between
Matanovic, Krogius, Livsic, Parma, Taimanov and perhaps other Informant
contributors. While chess positions per se cannot be copyrighted, it is
obvious that Schiller simply lifted large portions of the ECM and put
his own name on it. A buyer of Schiller's book in effect paid Schiller
for work done by others.
This is an example of what I meant in reply to Parr's comment about
"months of work" -- that in Schiller's case "days of copying" would be
more accurate.


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Old July 17th 06, 08:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
jr jr is offline
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 311
Default Eric Schiller had a stroke

Why doesn't Kingston stuff it?

Has he no sense of propriety?

Taylor Kingston wrote:
Chess One wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...

raylopez99 wrote:
Skeptic wrote:

A particularly egregious case of Schiller's working method can be seen
he

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html

This book, the Big Book of Combinations, was quite useful to me ...


Too bad, then, that the money you paid did not go to the original
authors.

--Taylor Kingston makes a charge! Okay - excitment over - Taylor Kingston
makes a vague charge.


Oh, no, the statement is quite specific.

Who can these people be? Is the work out of copyright, are the people dead?
You will not receive an answer ...


The book in question, The Encyclopaedia of Chess Middlegames (Chess
Informant, Belgrade, 1980), was, I believe, a collaboration between
Matanovic, Krogius, Livsic, Parma, Taimanov and perhaps other Informant
contributors. While chess positions per se cannot be copyrighted, it is
obvious that Schiller simply lifted large portions of the ECM and put
his own name on it. A buyer of Schiller's book in effect paid Schiller
for work done by others.
This is an example of what I meant in reply to Parr's comment about
"months of work" -- that in Schiller's case "days of copying" would be
more accurate.


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