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Old January 12th 10, 03:34 PM posted to soc.culture.russian,alt.history,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Innes' Weird Memory Does It Again (was: Russia – The Story of the Greatest Nation)

On Jan 11, 6:16*pm, Taylor Kingston
wrote:
On Jan 11, 5:35*pm, ChessFire wrote:



Do you know of one?


yes, the Soviet School of Chess, by Kotov and Yudovich


in the above example, eg, alekhine is mentioned [from memory] 5 times,
and with 5 losses to soviet 'greats'.


* Our Phil's memory seems to be playing tricks on him again.
* Alekhine is mentioned much more than five times in "The Soviet
School of Chess." There is a 17-page chapter devoted entirely to him.
Beyond that, the index lists 27 mentions of him. However, I see no "5
losses to Soviet greats." There is not a full Alekhine game in the
whole book. There are various Alekhine game fragments, but all
involving non-Soviet opponents, as fas as I could see. There is a draw
with Keres from Bad Nauheim 1936, but at that time Keres was a citizen
of independent Estonia.
* Aside from the game fragments, Alekhine is mainly mentioned as a
founder (along with Chigorin) of the Soviet School of Chess, and a
major influence and shining beacon (his defection notwithstanding) for
the GMs who came after him.


More on this: I've looked through every mention of Alekhine in "The
Soviet School of Chess" by Kotov and Yudovich. Far from containing "5
losses to soviet greats," it hardly mentions any Alekhine losses at
all.
As I said before, it contains no full Alekhine games, only
fragments. Almost all of these are in the chapter on Alekhine, and
they are used mainly just to show openings in which he found
worthwhile innovations. As far as I could determine, all the games
specifically mentioned contain only */_one Alekhine loss_/*, to Fine
at AVRO 1938, and that game was only cited as an example of an
Alekhine TN; neither any moves nor the final result were given. Nor of
course was the American Reuben Fine a "Soviet great."
It should also be noted that the chapter on Alekhine is titled
"Russia's Greatest Player." So it would hardly have behooved Kotov and
Yudovich to present many Alekhine losses.

So whatever Phil Innes was thinking of as "the above example" in
which "alekhine is mentioned [from memory] 5 times, and with 5 losses
to soviet greats," it sure as heck was not "The Soviet School of
Chess."
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Old January 12th 10, 07:15 PM posted to soc.culture.russian,alt.history,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess
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Default Innes' Weird Memory Does It Again (was: Russia – The Story of the Greatest Nation)

On Jan 12, 10:34*am, Taylor Kingston
wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:16*pm, Taylor Kingston
wrote:





On Jan 11, 5:35*pm, ChessFire wrote:


Do you know of one?


yes, the Soviet School of Chess, by Kotov and Yudovich


in the above example, eg, alekhine is mentioned [from memory] 5 times,
and with 5 losses to soviet 'greats'.


* Our Phil's memory seems to be playing tricks on him again.
* Alekhine is mentioned much more than five times in "The Soviet
School of Chess." There is a 17-page chapter devoted entirely to him.
Beyond that, the index lists 27 mentions of him. However, I see no "5
losses to Soviet greats." There is not a full Alekhine game in the
whole book. There are various Alekhine game fragments, but all
involving non-Soviet opponents, as fas as I could see. There is a draw
with Keres from Bad Nauheim 1936, but at that time Keres was a citizen
of independent Estonia.
* Aside from the game fragments, Alekhine is mainly mentioned as a
founder (along with Chigorin) of the Soviet School of Chess, and a
major influence and shining beacon (his defection notwithstanding) for
the GMs who came after him.


* More on this: I've looked through every mention of Alekhine in "The
Soviet School of Chess" by Kotov and Yudovich. Far from containing "5
losses to soviet greats," it hardly mentions any Alekhine losses at
all.
* As I said before, it contains no full Alekhine games, only
fragments. Almost all of these are in the chapter on Alekhine, and
they are used mainly just to show openings *in which he found
worthwhile innovations. As far as I could determine, all the games
specifically mentioned contain only */_one Alekhine loss_/*, to Fine
at AVRO 1938, and that game was only cited as an example of an
Alekhine TN; neither any moves nor the final result were given. Nor of
course was the American Reuben Fine a "Soviet great."
* It should also be noted that the chapter on Alekhine is titled
"Russia's Greatest Player." So it would hardly have behooved Kotov and
Yudovich to present many Alekhine losses.


ROFL! This is like the Morphy thread.

Surely "Russia's Greatest Player" could be afforded one game score, or
even his own listing in the chapter of Russian Grandmasters?


* So whatever Phil Innes was thinking of as "the above example" in
which "alekhine is mentioned [from memory] 5 times, and with 5 losses
to soviet greats," it sure as heck was not "The Soviet School of
Chess."


Taylor Kingston means that there is one game mentioned in the index
with Alekhine's name, which is as he puts it proof to him that the
authors actually thought Alekhine was Russia's greatest player. What
kind of thinking is that, if any?

But Taylor Kingston should read the text!

Meantime the introduction by the editors of the Dover edition is the
funniest ever written - openly stating that what is between the covers
is a heavily twisted record, and obvious propaganda - a sort of
warning about buying the book, including statement to the effect that
the important lines covered and commented upon are actually 'b' lines,
and the authors are gulling we Westerners.

Maybe Taylor Kingston missed that too?

Phil Innes
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