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Old March 21st 10, 12:19 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

Native American DNA

Native Americans are generally classified as being members of one
unified group. However, I spent a year in Central America especially
in Guatemala and Salvador and there are huge differences between them.

The typical Central American Indian is short, no more than 5 feet 2
inches to five feet 4 inches and many of them are under five feet.

The typical Native American we have in the Continental United States
in places like Arizona are tall, powerfully built, probably averaging
5 feet ten inches and many are over six feet. The American Indian girl
that was killed as a Marine in the War in Iraq was a typical example
of this.

These are just my purely unscientific observations, but the
differences between the two groups are so obvious I do not see how
anybody can disagree.

I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in small boats across the Pacific Ocean,
landing in Chile. Of course, they had not planned to cross the
Pacific. They just got swept here by the ocean currents and survived
by catching fish along the way.

I think there is also a possibility that one group got here by
crossing the Atlantic Ocean, by way of Iceland and Greenland. This
would have happened more than ten thousand years ago, before the
arrival of the White Europeans who now dominate Europe.

My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans?

Sam Sloan
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Old March 21st 10, 04:15 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

"samsloan" wrote in message...
Native American DNA
--------These are just my purely unscientific observations, ---
I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in ----
My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans? Sam Sloan


You might wish to check out:
1)
http://www.psc.edu/science/Merri/merri.html
"----University of Pittsburgh geneticist Andrew Merriwether is one
among this new breed of genetic detective. Merriwether leads a team
of researchers carrying out the most extensive survey yet undertaken
of DNA from Native American populations ----"
2)
http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/n....lasso?id=9101
Native Americans Descended From a Single Ancestral Group,
DNA Study Confirms April 28, 2009
3)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...tive-amer.html
Nearly all of today's Native Americans in North, Central, and
South America can trace part of their ancestry to six women
whose descendants immigrated around 20,000 years ago,
a DNA study suggests.
4)
And obviously, some interpretations of Kenniwick man
rocks some people's world.

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Old March 21st 10, 05:10 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

On Mar 21, 8:19*am, samsloan wrote:
Native American DNA

Native Americans are generally classified as being members of one
unified group. However, I spent a year in Central America especially
in Guatemala and Salvador and there are huge differences between them.

The typical Central American Indian is short, no more than 5 feet 2
inches to five feet 4 inches and many of them are under five feet.

The typical Native American we have in the Continental United States
in places like Arizona are tall, powerfully built, probably averaging
5 feet ten inches and many are over six feet. The American Indian girl
that was killed as a Marine in the War in Iraq was a typical example
of this.

These are just my purely unscientific observations, but the
differences between the two groups are so obvious I do not see how
anybody can disagree.

I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in small boats across the Pacific Ocean,
landing in Chile. Of course, they had not planned to cross the
Pacific. They just got swept here by the ocean currents and survived
by catching fish along the way.

I think there is also a possibility that one group got here by
crossing the Atlantic Ocean, by way of Iceland and Greenland. This
would have happened more than ten thousand years ago, before the
arrival of the White Europeans who now dominate Europe.

My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans?

Sam Sloan




http://www.kerchner.com/haplogroups-ydna.htm


and

Specific mitochondrial haplogroups are typically found in different
regions of the world, and this is due to unique population histories.
In the process of spreading around the world, many populationsówith
their special mitochondrial haplogroupsóbecame isolated, and specific
haplogroups concentrated in geographic regions. Today, we have
identified certain haplogroups that originated in Africa, Europe,
Asia, the islands of the Pacific, the Americas, and even particular
ethnic groups. Of course, haplogroups that are specific to one region
are sometimes found in another, but this is due to recent migration.

A, B, C, & D: Haplogroups A, B, C, & D. Native American mtDNA
Haplogroups. Also see mtDNA Haplogroup X.
Clan Aiyana Home Page by Amelia
mtDNA Haplogroup A (Clan Aiyana) by Blaine Bettinger
Native American Lineage and mtDNA Haplogroups Yahoo Group
MtDNA Haplogroup B Project by Ernie Alderete

http://www.kerchner.com/haplogroups-mtdna.htm
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Old March 21st 10, 05:53 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

On Mar 21, 5:19*am, samsloan wrote:
Native American DNA

Native Americans are generally classified as being members of one
unified group. However, I spent a year in Central America especially
in Guatemala and Salvador and there are huge differences between them.

The typical Central American Indian is short, no more than 5 feet 2
inches to five feet 4 inches and many of them are under five feet.

The typical Native American we have in the Continental United States
in places like Arizona are tall, powerfully built, probably averaging
5 feet ten inches and many are over six feet. The American Indian girl
that was killed as a Marine in the War in Iraq was a typical example
of this.

These are just my purely unscientific observations, but the
differences between the two groups are so obvious I do not see how
anybody can disagree.

I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in small boats across the Pacific Ocean,
landing in Chile. Of course, they had not planned to cross the
Pacific. They just got swept here by the ocean currents and survived
by catching fish along the way.

I think there is also a possibility that one group got here by
crossing the Atlantic Ocean, by way of Iceland and Greenland. This
would have happened more than ten thousand years ago, before the
arrival of the White Europeans who now dominate Europe.

My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans?

Sam Sloan


You are startlingly ignorant regarding this issue. No one has classed
all Native Americans as belonging to one "group" of anything. There
has been a very long tradition among scientists of differentiating
between major groups by language, physical characteristics, length of
time in North America, etc. There are even longer (much longer)
traditions among Native people regarding their many differences. One
would not group everyone together as a single group on any other
continent so why would they on the two major "American" continents?
Even with the great degree of "mixing" over the past 500 years, most
people who have spent a great deal of time with Native Americans are
able to make a good guess as to which nation an individual is from. I
am only a half-blood yet many people, Indian & non-Indian, have
guessed that my Native half is Hopi when they first see me. People who
are not around Native Americans very much will guess anything from
Italian to Jewish to Polynesian....etc.

Regarding origins, Native Americans also have a wide variation in
their own accounts of their origins, some of which fall neatly into
themes that can be grouped together (if you allow for the creativity &
variations in symbolism among them). You will find similar origin
accounts in the Pacific Northwest, another group on the north Atlantic
seaboard, another in the Amazon, another on the west coast of South
America, etc. The Hopi origin account is similar to that of the Aztec
people, just as the languages are similar & the physical appearance is
similar. It should not be surprising to find that Native Americans
have many different accounts of how they got to North America, of how
North America itself is symbolized, of where they were before they
were in North America, etc. When Christians first tried to cram their
Garden of Eden story down the throats of Native Americans, they were
met with responses like "that's a very interesting origin for your
people. Now here's where we came from".

Even anthropologists (I happen to be one of those too) do not say that
Native Americans have a single origin or time span in the western
hemisphere. Perhaps you should read some current scientific accounts &
controversies before going off half-cocked. - Bronwen
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Old March 21st 10, 05:59 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

On Mar 21, 5:19*am, samsloan wrote:
Native American DNA

Native Americans are generally classified as being members of one
unified group. However, I spent a year in Central America especially
in Guatemala and Salvador and there are huge differences between them.

The typical Central American Indian is short, no more than 5 feet 2
inches to five feet 4 inches and many of them are under five feet.

The typical Native American we have in the Continental United States
in places like Arizona are tall, powerfully built, probably averaging
5 feet ten inches and many are over six feet. The American Indian girl
that was killed as a Marine in the War in Iraq was a typical example
of this.

These are just my purely unscientific observations, but the
differences between the two groups are so obvious I do not see how
anybody can disagree.

I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in small boats across the Pacific Ocean,
landing in Chile. Of course, they had not planned to cross the
Pacific. They just got swept here by the ocean currents and survived
by catching fish along the way.

I think there is also a possibility that one group got here by
crossing the Atlantic Ocean, by way of Iceland and Greenland. This
would have happened more than ten thousand years ago, before the
arrival of the White Europeans who now dominate Europe.

My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans?

Sam Sloan


Oh, forgot one thing. The Native American woman who was killed in Iraq
happened to be Hopi & was, as is typical, relatively short. I don't
know where you got your ideas about what she looked like. If you are
under the impression that Southwestern Native people are tall, you
have not spent much time there. Of course there is a great deal of
individual variation (after all, Chinese people are usually short but
the tallest man in the world right now is Chinese). - Bronwen


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Default Native American DNA

On Mar 21, 9:15*am, "a425couple" wrote:
"samsloan" wrote in message...
Native American DNA
--------These are just my purely unscientific observations, ---
I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in ----
My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans? * *Sam Sloan


You might wish to check out:
1)http://www.psc.edu/science/Merri/merri.html
"----University of Pittsburgh geneticist Andrew Merriwether is one
among this new breed of genetic detective. Merriwether leads a team
of researchers carrying out the most extensive survey yet undertaken
of DNA from Native American populations ----"
2)http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/n....lasso?id=9101
Native Americans Descended From a Single Ancestral Group,
DNA Study Confirms * * * *April 28, 2009
3)http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...AP-native-amer....
Nearly all of today's Native Americans in North, Central, and
South America can trace part of their ancestry to six women
whose descendants immigrated around 20,000 years ago,
a DNA study suggests.
4)
And obviously, some interpretations of Kenniwick man
rocks some people's world.


Kennewick Man is incorrectly referred to as "Caucasian" in the press,
but the scientists who have studied him say that the one group that
most closely resembles him is the Ainu. There is a considerable body
of evidence (before the discovery of Kennewick Man) that some sort of
contact has occurred prehistorically between the Ainu & the Native
people of the Northwest Coast. - Bronwen
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Default Native American DNA

samsloan wrote:
Native American DNA

Native Americans are generally classified as being members of one
unified group.


Not that I ever heard.

--
Cheryl
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Old March 21st 10, 08:23 PM posted to soc.culture.usa,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default Native American DNA

lostcopper wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:15 am, "a425couple" wrote:
"samsloan" wrote in message...
Native American DNA
--------These are just my purely unscientific observations, ---
I believe that the Native Americans got here in four different groups
or waves. At least one group came across the Bering Strait to Alaska.
At least one other group came in ----
My question is: Are there any DNA studies that either prove or
disprove my theory of there being four different types of Native
Americans? Sam Sloan

You might wish to check out:
1)http://www.psc.edu/science/Merri/merri.html
"----University of Pittsburgh geneticist Andrew Merriwether is one
among this new breed of genetic detective. Merriwether leads a team
of researchers carrying out the most extensive survey yet undertaken
of DNA from Native American populations ----"
2)http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/n....lasso?id=9101
Native Americans Descended From a Single Ancestral Group,
DNA Study Confirms April 28, 2009
3)http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...AP-native-amer...
Nearly all of today's Native Americans in North, Central, and
South America can trace part of their ancestry to six women
whose descendants immigrated around 20,000 years ago,
a DNA study suggests.
4)
And obviously, some interpretations of Kenniwick man
rocks some people's world.


Kennewick Man is incorrectly referred to as "Caucasian" in the press,
but the scientists who have studied him say that the one group that
most closely resembles him is the Ainu. There is a considerable body
of evidence (before the discovery of Kennewick Man) that some sort of
contact has occurred prehistorically between the Ainu & the Native
people of the Northwest Coast. - Bronwen


Or that Ainu and Athapascan peoples had a common ancestor.

There is apparently a very small population in central
Siberia who speak a language closely related to Na-Dene.

As a Hopi, I assume you see Na-Dene speakers as late-
comers.
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Default Native American DNA

Or that Ainu and Athapascan peoples had a common ancestor.

Except that Athabascan people do not resemble Kennewick Man.


There is apparently a very small population in central
Siberia who speak a language closely related to Na-Dene.


Unless this is new information (less than 10 years old), no one has
been found in Asia whose language seems related to a Native American
language with the obvious exception of the Arctic people, whose
culture & language extends from Asia to Greenland across Alaska &
Canada.



As a Hopi, I assume you see Na-Dene speakers as late-
comers.


Absolutely. About 1000 years ago, only 500 years earlier than the
Spanish (in the Southwest, at least). In their homeland of western
Subarctic Canada & Alaska, they are not newcomers.
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Default Native American DNA

lostcopper wrote:
Or that Ainu and Athapascan peoples had a common ancestor.


Except that Athabascan people do not resemble Kennewick Man.


lostcopper snipped from the earlier post
"Kennewick Man is incorrectly referred to as "Caucasian" in the press,
but the scientists who have studied him say that the one group that
most closely resembles him is the Ainu. There is a considerable body
of evidence (before the discovery of Kennewick Man) that some sort of
contact has occurred prehistorically between the Ainu & the Native
people of the Northwest Coast. - Bronwen"

So you brought up the connection between Kennewick and Ainu.
And made the connection between Ainu and NW Coast peoples.
I may have, in a misinformed way, jumped to the connection
of Athapascan and Ainu because most of the present day
NW Coast natives are Athapascan and have been for probably
5000 years or so.

Hmmm.
Similarities between native American and Asian populations:
Sino-dent teeth (shovel shaped incisors)
Darkish skin, dark eyes, straight coarse hair

Apparently Kennewick does not have Sino-dent teeth.
http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/html/Kennewick_man.html

His dentition is suggestive of a South Asian source.
Do the Ainu share this feature?


There is apparently a very small population in central
Siberia who speak a language closely related to Na-Dene.


Unless this is new information (less than 10 years old), no one has
been found in Asia whose language seems related to a Native American
language with the obvious exception of the Arctic people, whose
culture & language extends from Asia to Greenland across Alaska &
Canada.


I googled on "na dene siberia and got these along with
many other hits.

http://anthropology.net/2008/03/27/m...language-link/

This one seems to indicate that the Yeniseian speakers and Na-dene
speakers are not closely related genetically.
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...74.6rubicz.pdf
This could indicate that the original Yeniseian speakers
conquered an indigenous population and imposed its language
without leaving much of a genetic stamp. It's happened
before and is in fact fairly common.

And yes, the information is less than 10 years old.


As a Hopi, I assume you see Na-Dene speakers as late-
comers.


Absolutely. About 1000 years ago, only 500 years earlier than the
Spanish (in the Southwest, at least). In their homeland of western
Subarctic Canada & Alaska, they are not newcomers.


Agreed. In fact there is a theory that the Na-dene
speakers were in fact an earlier population than
the so-called "Amerind" groups who got isolated
by glaciers in the Yukon and only started south
after the glaciers had pretty much completely
melted.
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