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Old October 10th 11, 12:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

While you are arguing over the benefits of Communism, kindly do not
overlook the fact that the book is out now, with complete game scores
in Algebraic notation of all 200 games referenced in the book.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878198

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=4871878198


On Aug 31, 1:06*am, samsloan wrote:
The Soviet School of Chess
by Kotov and Yudovich

http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878198h...SBN=4871878198


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Old October 10th 11, 05:43 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

On Oct 10, 4:49*am, samsloan wrote:
While you are arguing over the benefits of Communism, kindly do not
overlook the fact that the book is out now, with complete game scores
in Algebraic notation of all 200 games referenced in the book.


So exactly what did you do to create this "algebraic" edition, Sam?
I suspect you just gathered up the game scores from databases and
appended them after the book proper. You did not actually change the
notation within the body of the book, right? That would be actual
work.
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Old October 11th 11, 12:50 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

On Oct 10, 9:43*am, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Oct 10, 4:49*am, samsloan wrote:

While you are arguing over the benefits of Communism, kindly do not
overlook the fact that the book is out now, with complete game scores
in Algebraic notation of all 200 games referenced in the book.


* So exactly what did you do to create this "algebraic" edition, Sam?
I suspect you just gathered up the game scores from databases and
appended them after the book proper. You did not actually change the
notation within the body of the book, right? That would be actual
work.


Yes. That is what I did. If you think it is easy to find 200 games
many of them obscure or not in the databases at all you are mistaken.

Sam Sloan
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Old October 11th 11, 12:58 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

On Oct 10, 4:50*pm, samsloan wrote:
On Oct 10, 9:43*am, Taylor Kingston wrote:

On Oct 10, 4:49*am, samsloan wrote:


While you are arguing over the benefits of Communism, kindly do not
overlook the fact that the book is out now, with complete game scores
in Algebraic notation of all 200 games referenced in the book.


* So exactly what did you do to create this "algebraic" edition, Sam?
I suspect you just gathered up the game scores from databases and
appended them after the book proper. You did not actually change the
notation within the body of the book, right? That would be actual
work.


Yes. That is what I did. If you think it is easy to find 200 games
many of them obscure or not in the databases at all you are mistaken.


Perhaps, but it's much harder to produce a real algebraic edition,
that is, changing all the notation in the book, both actual game moves
and annotations, from descriptive to algebraic, interweaving the full
text in the right places. Having done it several times, I can tell you
it takes months. But since the main problem with descriptive is that
few players can read it any more, that's the whole point of producing
an algebraic version.

What you're doing is simply appending a database dump at the end of
the unchanged Dover edition, right?
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Old October 11th 11, 04:35 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:58:31 -0700 (PDT), Taylor Kingston
wrote:

On Oct 10, 4:50*pm, samsloan wrote:
since the main problem with descriptive is that
few players can read it any more, that's the whole point of producing
an algebraic version.


It's idiotic not be able to read descriptive notation -- it means a
whole mass of classic chess literature isn't available to you. A
student of mine was having trouble with descriptive -- we just played
a few clock games where he HAD to record his moves in descriptive --
no problem anymore.

One can argue the merits of algebraic versus descriptive, but the fact
is that learning either takes minutes, and getting comfortable with
either shouldn't take more than an hour or so.


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Old October 11th 11, 04:38 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

Is there a descriptive to algebraic converter? Seems like it wouldn't
be hard to write...just make sure all ood moves are for white, evens
for black, etc.

As for not being able to read it...it's nice to know it, and Andy
Soltis held the line in Chess Rag for years, but we aren't learning
Greek in elementary school anymore either. All things must pass.



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Old October 11th 11, 04:46 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:38:52 -0700 (PDT), The Masked Bishop
wrote:

Is there a descriptive to algebraic converter? Seems like it wouldn't
be hard to write...just make sure all ood moves are for white, evens
for black, etc.

As for not being able to read it...it's nice to know it, and Andy
Soltis held the line in Chess Rag for years, but we aren't learning
Greek in elementary school anymore either. All things must pass.


There used to be a couple of interactive recording tools that would
let you go back and forth. They seem to have disappeared.

There are a lot of good books that haven't yet been converted, or, as
in the case of Fischer's book, were poorly converted, so it's still
useful, just as some knowledge of Greek and Latin gives a deeper
insight into English usage.

Greek in elementary school? I remember reading of John Adams tutoring
John Quincy in Greek, Latin, and calculus when they were in France,
and pondering the likelyhood of Bush senior similarly tutoring the
Shrub. Heh, heh, heh.
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Old October 11th 11, 05:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Descriptive-to-algebraic (was: Soviet School of Chess, looking forthe complete games)

On Oct 11, 8:38*am, The Masked Bishop wrote:
Is there a descriptive to algebraic converter? Seems like it wouldn't
be hard to write...just make sure all ood moves are for white, evens
for black, etc.


I've done two descriptive-to-algebraic book conversions (e.g.
http://shop.chesscafe.com/Laskers_Manual_of_Chess.asp) and am working
on a third. There's no magic wand I know of. I use ChessBase. If a
game is in a database that's a big help, but you usually have to enter
the note variations manually. If a game is not in a database, you have
to enter the whole thing, moves and notes.
And of course the verbal text has to be hand-typed. Or in some cases
it can be scanned into a pdf or Word doc with character-recognition
software, which allows you to cut-and-paste, but the conversion is
often unreliable and creates a lot of typos, unlike ChessBase which
never makes notational errors.

As for not being able to read it...it's nice to know it, and Andy
Soltis held the line in Chess Rag for years, but we aren't learning
Greek in elementary school anymore either. All things must pass.


I agree with Mike that it's just about as easy to read descriptive
as algebraic, and any serious chess player should know both. But in
terms of the market, most players just don't want to bother with
descriptive any more, so if you want to sell books, it must be
algebraic.
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Old October 11th 11, 05:48 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Descriptive-to-algebraic (was: Soviet School of Chess, lookingfor the complete games)

I agree with Mike that it's just about as easy to read descriptive
as algebraic, and any serious chess player should know both. But in
terms of the market, most players just don't want to bother with
descriptive any more, so if you want to sell books, it must be
algebraic.


Well, it's KIND OF just as easy. Actually, it isn't...you have to keep
flipping the board in your head and it's hopelessly
illogical...algebraic gives every square a distinct reference
point...descriptive is cooler sounding, that's about it.

I waited for years for My 60 Memorable Games to come out in algebraic
(the new version, not the bowdlerized one), before finally reading it.
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Old October 11th 11, 05:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.computer,alt.chess
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Default Descriptive-to-algebraic (was: Soviet School of Chess, looking for the complete games)

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:21:37 -0700 (PDT), Taylor Kingston
wrote:

On Oct 11, 8:38*am, The Masked Bishop wrote:
Is there a descriptive to algebraic converter? Seems like it wouldn't
be hard to write...just make sure all ood moves are for white, evens
for black, etc.


I've done two descriptive-to-algebraic book conversions (e.g.
http://shop.chesscafe.com/Laskers_Manual_of_Chess.asp) and am working
on a third. There's no magic wand I know of. I use ChessBase. If a
game is in a database that's a big help, but you usually have to enter
the note variations manually. If a game is not in a database, you have
to enter the whole thing, moves and notes.
And of course the verbal text has to be hand-typed. Or in some cases
it can be scanned into a pdf or Word doc with character-recognition
software, which allows you to cut-and-paste, but the conversion is
often unreliable and creates a lot of typos, unlike ChessBase which
never makes notational errors.

As for not being able to read it...it's nice to know it, and Andy
Soltis held the line in Chess Rag for years, but we aren't learning
Greek in elementary school anymore either. All things must pass.


I agree with Mike that it's just about as easy to read descriptive
as algebraic, and any serious chess player should know both. But in
terms of the market, most players just don't want to bother with
descriptive any more, so if you want to sell books, it must be
algebraic.


On the other hand, as you note, it's pretty labor intensive to convert
the games and the notes and this probably leads to repagination which
may be a problem with indexes, etc.

I think Sam's approach is a reasonable compromise, although I think
he'd add a lot of value if he'd either include a CD with the algebraic
game database, or at least, provide a link so someone purchasing the
book could download the games. A reader could 'tap' through the
games with the book in hand, and the on-screen presentation would
provide a return reference point when going through the annotations.
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