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Old August 27th 04, 01:21 AM
gcs
 
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Default Training by Cheating

It's because of individuals like yourself that I quit playing online blitz
chess. Cheating is pointless.Cheating has ruined online chess for many
people.Hope you are proud of yourself.
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Old August 27th 04, 09:57 AM
eros
 
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"gcs" wrote in message
om...
It's because of individuals like yourself that I quit playing online blitz
chess. Cheating is pointless.Cheating has ruined online chess for many
people.Hope you are proud of yourself.




If you quit playing online chess because of a few childish cheaters, you're
a bigger loser than they are. Cheating IS pointless in online play where
there is no money involved and ego is the only stake. That is why most
people don't cheat and play for the competition. Whining little pukes like
you are even more annoying than the program cheats.


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Old August 28th 04, 04:41 AM
My name is Mac, not Spam
 
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in article [email protected], eros at
wrote on 8/27/04 4:57 AM:

"gcs" wrote in message
om...
It's because of individuals like yourself that I quit playing online blitz
chess. Cheating is pointless.Cheating has ruined online chess for many
people.Hope you are proud of yourself.


If you quit playing online chess because of a few childish cheaters, you're
a bigger loser than they are. Cheating IS pointless in online play where
there is no money involved and ego is the only stake. That is why most
people don't cheat and play for the competition. Whining little pukes like
you are even more annoying than the program cheats.


You say that like being annoying is somehow an objectively measurable trait.

I quit playing correspondence chess for awhile for similar reasons: cheating
is so easy and so impossible to stop that some correspondence leagues have
decided to not even make it illegal anymore.

Look. We play chess for fun, right? (Well, some of us do.) If the nagging
suspicion that your opponent is suddenly stronger than before because he has
"plugged in"--if your frustration mounts each time you have a good game
suddenly turn on you because your opponent's skill leaps forward
mid-game--then you are not having as much fun, right?

Same goes for live server chess. I, like many people, don't play against (C)
accounts very often, because the whole reason for ICS play for me is to
challenge and interact with human beings--with all that that means. If you
feel like the human being you're interacting with is lying to you, then
again: you are not likely to have as much fun.

No fun? Don't play.

I've gotten back into both server chess and email chess. Why? Because my
goals have shifted, and so now my criteria for having fun are now a little
different. For me, email chess and server chess are both just training
tools; I use them to practice openings, to hone tactical skills, to fine
tune endgame technique in live situations, and to bulk up my strategic
planning ability. What I'm not terribly concerned about is winning. Winning
is for *real* chess: face to face, triple-weighted-pieces, a clock you
physically punch, games lasting two to six hours, two to three times a day,
for a weekend or more, with winners and losers, trophies and cash prizes,
and laughter and exhaustion all along the way. In the tournament hall, I
care about winning.

Online, however, I just care about getting better; I can get better no
matter what my opponent does, so it's easier to not think about what sort of
person they are and whether or not they are being honest with me. I'm just
playing around, so the outcome on the board doesn't matter, and so I can
ignore the insulting issue of whether or not they won because of skill or
because of cheating.

Then again, it'd be nicer still if everyone really was honest all the time.
But that wouldn't be very human.



--
Glenn 'Mac' Frazier
USCF#12721233, FICS:'Frazier', RedHotPawn.com:'GMF'
mailto: [ my 3-letter name ] @thefraziers.org,
http://mac.thefraziers.org/



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Old August 28th 04, 08:02 PM
eros
 
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"My name is Mac, not Spam" wrote in message
...
in article [email protected], eros at
wrote on 8/27/04 4:57 AM:

"gcs" wrote in message
om...
It's because of individuals like yourself that I quit playing online

blitz
chess. Cheating is pointless.Cheating has ruined online chess for many
people.Hope you are proud of yourself.


If you quit playing online chess because of a few childish cheaters,

you're
a bigger loser than they are. Cheating IS pointless in online play where
there is no money involved and ego is the only stake. That is why most
people don't cheat and play for the competition. Whining little pukes

like
you are even more annoying than the program cheats.


You say that like being annoying is somehow an objectively measurable

trait.

It's not? A mosquito flying around in your room is equally as annoying as
being caught in heavy traffic when you're already late for a meeting and you
just finished spilling your coffee on your pants, and the meeting minutes.
I think the later would be much more annoying. I've been through both of
those experiences personally.


I quit playing correspondence chess for awhile for similar reasons:

cheating
is so easy and so impossible to stop that some correspondence leagues have
decided to not even make it illegal anymore.



The problem with you is that you have the wrong view of what modern corr
chess constitues. If you view it as a form of training and an opportunity to
socialize with people from around the world, then corr chess is a great
thing. I play on several email (turn-based) sites myself. As for the
blitz....cheating is actually quite rare. And if you do come across someone
you "know" is using a program, just add em to your avoid list. All major
sites have some form of avoid list. Many times though, people make false
accusations of cheating. I have been accused many times of cheating in
blitz, usually when I just start up a new handle at a site and my rating is
artificially low, so I have to wade through the weaklings in order to get my
bullet rating up to the 2000-2200 it normally is. I have never onces used
any sort of assistance for blitz/bullet. I like the competition and that is
what I play for. Most people think this way. I suspect you've been wrong on
many occassions when you thought you were being "cheated" and in reality you
were just being outplayed. It is not that easy for a class player such as
yourself to know positively when their opponent is using a program or not.





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Old August 28th 04, 08:57 PM
My name is Mac, not Spam
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article [email protected], eros at
wrote on 8/28/04 3:02 PM:


"My name is Mac, not Spam" wrote in message
...
in article [email protected], eros at
wrote on 8/27/04 4:57 AM:

"gcs" wrote in message
om...
It's because of individuals like yourself that I quit playing online

blitz
chess. Cheating is pointless.Cheating has ruined online chess for many
people.Hope you are proud of yourself.


If you quit playing online chess because of a few childish cheaters,

you're
a bigger loser than they are. Cheating IS pointless in online play where
there is no money involved and ego is the only stake. That is why most
people don't cheat and play for the competition. Whining little pukes

like
you are even more annoying than the program cheats.


You say that like being annoying is somehow an objectively measurable

trait.

It's not? A mosquito flying around in your room is equally as annoying as
being caught in heavy traffic when you're already late for a meeting and you
just finished spilling your coffee on your pants, and the meeting minutes.
I think the later would be much more annoying. I've been through both of
those experiences personally.


So it is empirically demonstrable that people complaining about cheating are
objectively, unquestionably more annoying than the cheaters themselves, to
all people, at all times? Uh huh.

Pointing out that some comparisons, with regard to a given trait, are
universally agreed upon does not demonstrate that all comparisons regarding
that trait are objectively determinable.

I quit playing correspondence chess for awhile for similar reasons:

cheating
is so easy and so impossible to stop that some correspondence leagues have
decided to not even make it illegal anymore.



The problem with you is that you have the wrong view of what modern corr
chess constitues. If you view it as a form of training and an opportunity to
socialize with people from around the world, then corr chess is a great
thing. I play on several email (turn-based) sites myself. As for the


Read the rest of the post you quoted and you'll see that my attitudes
regarding email and server chess have shifted in exactly that direction:

"I've gotten back into both server chess and email chess. Why? Because my
goals have shifted, and so now my criteria for having fun are now a little
different. For me, email chess and server chess are both just training
tools..." etc.

blitz....cheating is actually quite rare. And if you do come across someone
you "know" is using a program, just add em to your avoid list. All major
sites have some form of avoid list. Many times though, people make false
accusations of cheating. I have been accused many times of cheating in
blitz, usually when I just start up a new handle at a site and my rating is
artificially low, so I have to wade through the weaklings in order to get my
bullet rating up to the 2000-2200 it normally is. I have never onces used
any sort of assistance for blitz/bullet. I like the competition and that is
what I play for. Most people think this way. I suspect you've been wrong on
many occassions when you thought you were being "cheated" and in reality you
were just being outplayed. It is not that easy for a class player such as
yourself to know positively when their opponent is using a program or not.


Actually, I can't think of a single instance in which I felt I "knew"
someone was cheating me during an ICS game; there have been times when I
suspected it. Blitz games on the servers have never been a problem, though.
You're quite right: cyborg-style cheating in blitz is probably too hard to
even bother trying. But I don't really care about blitz, nor play much of
it, really. It was the long time control games that sometimes seemed
suspicious, though usually my suspicions only arose after doing some
postgame analysis with a computer. Even then it was rare. I'm pretty good at
understanding how poor a player I can be.

My point, though, has little to do with "provable" cheating. I was merely
defending the other poster's decision to not play because of the general
practice of cheating. More specifically, because of the perception of that
cheating.

If it *feels* like you're being cheated, it's not as fun. If it's not fun,
then you have a legitimate reason to stop playing. My own solution was to
change my objectives, so I don't really think not playing is the best
solution, obviously; however I'm not going to be so arrogant as to call
someone who does take that path a "whining little puke".

Perhaps your history of being called a cheater has made you unusually
sensitive on this topic, and you lashed out unthinkingly because of it.
People would probably respect your opinions more if you were to practice a
little restraint when it came to ad hominem attacks and the use of demeaning
stock phrases like "the problem with you is...." Someone can disagree with
you without there being a problem, you know.

--
Glenn 'Mac' Frazier
USCF#12721233, FICS:'Frazier', RedHotPawn.com:'GMF'
mailto: [ my 3-letter name ] @thefraziers.org,
http://mac.thefraziers.org/





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Old August 29th 04, 08:40 AM
Ray Gordon
 
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Play only one-minute chess online and you won't run into many cheaters.

Actually, most "cheating" online has to do with people who specialize in
finding a weakness in a bot, letting the bot accumulate rating points, then
swiping the points from the bot.



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