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Old April 26th 04, 03:30 AM
Samik
 
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Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed

I am in serious trouble with the 9.000 line of the Yugoslav attack.
After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 00
8.Qd2 Nc6 9.000 Nd4
10. Bd4 Be6 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 Rfc8 13. h5 Qa5,
white is going for the positional 14. h6 Bh8 followed by the
immediate 15.Nd5,
swapping off queens. Now, after 15..Qd2 16.Rd2 Bd5 17.ed , Black can
play 17..Nd7. This is Chris Ward's idea. In 'Winning with the dragon
II' he recommends playing f5 as after which black exchanges the f pawn
with Whites g pawn (white has to play g4 at some point of time to
support his h6 Pawn). Then Black posts his Night at e5, never to be
dislodged, which stops all White threats against the e7 Pawn. So far
so good, but Chris Ward didn't consider the early Nd5 (15th move).
Following the move order mentioned above, i.e after 17..Nd7 , white
plays 18.Bh8 Kh8 19.Bb5 Ne5 20. f4 followed by Rd1...allowing Black no
time to play f5. (he can also play 19. g4). Then White's pressure on
the weak e7 Pawn becomes too much for me to handle. Does anybody have
any suggestion regarding this ? I will be very appreciative of ideas
for Black.
Samik
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Old April 26th 04, 02:49 PM
Luther Barnum
 
Posts: n/a
Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed

You need to create conterplay on the Queenside with 19... Nb6 20 ... Rc7 21
.... a6

This will give you time to line up your rooks and protect your weak pawn on
e7. Also you are right about the f5 move further weakening the e7 pawn. You
may consider after the bishop moves away from b5 trying to push the e pawn
or with the a rook at e8.

Overall, I don't like the position as white has way too much freedom and
once he plays b3, you are going to have a hard time getting rid of the d5
pawn. At that point white will try to load up on the e7 pawn.

I would consider going with 9 ... Bd7 10 Bc4 Rc8 11 Bb3 Ne5. 12 g4 Nc4 13
Bxc4 Rxc4 This will get to a more normal yugoslav with the idea of Qa5 ...
Rfc8 and maybe a rook sac on c3. You also might consider blunting any h4
with h5. The idea is to do just enough to slow down the kingside asault
while creating counterplay on the queenside. I love to play the yugoslay as
white because most people forget about the queenside.


"Samik" wrote in message
om...
I am in serious trouble with the 9.000 line of the Yugoslav attack.
After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 00
8.Qd2 Nc6 9.000 Nd4
10. Bd4 Be6 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 Rfc8 13. h5 Qa5,
white is going for the positional 14. h6 Bh8 followed by the
immediate 15.Nd5,
swapping off queens. Now, after 15..Qd2 16.Rd2 Bd5 17.ed , Black can
play 17..Nd7. This is Chris Ward's idea. In 'Winning with the dragon
II' he recommends playing f5 as after which black exchanges the f pawn
with Whites g pawn (white has to play g4 at some point of time to
support his h6 Pawn). Then Black posts his Night at e5, never to be
dislodged, which stops all White threats against the e7 Pawn. So far
so good, but Chris Ward didn't consider the early Nd5 (15th move).
Following the move order mentioned above, i.e after 17..Nd7 , white
plays 18.Bh8 Kh8 19.Bb5 Ne5 20. f4 followed by Rd1...allowing Black no
time to play f5. (he can also play 19. g4). Then White's pressure on
the weak e7 Pawn becomes too much for me to handle. Does anybody have
any suggestion regarding this ? I will be very appreciative of ideas
for Black.
Samik



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Old April 26th 04, 07:05 PM
Samik
 
Posts: n/a
Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed

"Luther Barnum" wrote in message . com...

Overall, I don't like the position as white has way too
much freedom


I don't like Black's position either. (By the way, can
some endgame expert assess this position. Is it 'theoretically
lost' for black because of his weak e pawn, or can he hold
on with accurate play ?). Thats why I was wondering if there
is a significantly improved line for black after 15.Nd5

Samik


and
once he plays b3, you are going to have a hard time getting rid of the d5
pawn. At that point white will try to load up on the e7 pawn.

I would consider going with 9 ... Bd7 10 Bc4 Rc8 11 Bb3 Ne5. 12 g4 Nc4 13
Bxc4 Rxc4 This will get to a more normal yugoslav with the idea of Qa5 ...
Rfc8 and maybe a rook sac on c3. You also might consider blunting any h4
with h5. The idea is to do just enough to slow down the kingside asault
while creating counterplay on the queenside. I love to play the yugoslay as
white because most people forget about the queenside.


"Samik" wrote in message
om...
I am in serious trouble with the 9.000 line of the Yugoslav attack.
After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 00
8.Qd2 Nc6 9.000 Nd4
10. Bd4 Be6 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 Rfc8 13. h5 Qa5,
white is going for the positional 14. h6 Bh8 followed by the
immediate 15.Nd5,
swapping off queens. Now, after 15..Qd2 16.Rd2 Bd5 17.ed , Black can
play 17..Nd7. This is Chris Ward's idea. In 'Winning with the dragon
II' he recommends playing f5 as after which black exchanges the f pawn
with Whites g pawn (white has to play g4 at some point of time to
support his h6 Pawn). Then Black posts his Night at e5, never to be
dislodged, which stops all White threats against the e7 Pawn. So far
so good, but Chris Ward didn't consider the early Nd5 (15th move).
Following the move order mentioned above, i.e after 17..Nd7 , white
plays 18.Bh8 Kh8 19.Bb5 Ne5 20. f4 followed by Rd1...allowing Black no
time to play f5. (he can also play 19. g4). Then White's pressure on
the weak e7 Pawn becomes too much for me to handle. Does anybody have
any suggestion regarding this ? I will be very appreciative of ideas
for Black.
Samik

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Old April 27th 04, 02:18 AM
Roman M. Parparov
 
Posts: n/a
Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed

Luther Barnum wrote:
You need to create conterplay on the Queenside with 19... Nb6 20 ... Rc7 21
... a6


This will give you time to line up your rooks and protect your weak pawn on
e7. Also you are right about the f5 move further weakening the e7 pawn. You
may consider after the bishop moves away from b5 trying to push the e pawn
or with the a rook at e8.


Overall, I don't like the position as white has way too much freedom and
once he plays b3, you are going to have a hard time getting rid of the d5
pawn. At that point white will try to load up on the e7 pawn.


I would consider going with 9 ... Bd7 10 Bc4 Rc8 11 Bb3 Ne5. 12 g4 Nc4 13
Bxc4 Rxc4 This will get to a more normal yugoslav with the idea of Qa5 ...
Rfc8 and maybe a rook sac on c3. You also might consider blunting any h4
with h5. The idea is to do just enough to slow down the kingside asault
while creating counterplay on the queenside. I love to play the yugoslay as
white because most people forget about the queenside.


When White plays 9.0-0-0 it means he won't play 10.Bc4 so the whole plan
of Rc8 and Nc6-a5-c4 is a major loss of time.
9....d5!? is the most intensive line.


--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: http://www.nasa.proj.ac.il/
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)51-34-18-34 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann
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Old April 28th 04, 07:46 AM
matt -`;'-
 
Posts: n/a
Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed


"Samik" wrote in message om...
I am in serious trouble with the 9.000 line of the Yugoslav attack.


I don't know if this will help but I threw together a few variations. -matt

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3
{2...nf6 instead may be interesting. Strengthens the hold on e4, and if 3.d4 then 3...fxd4 4.nxd4 and points are even the knights
may be swapped, but if not then black has developed a knight, not lost the K & Q pawns and as long as e7 does not move then there
would be no pin against the f6 knight. From there a King's Indian would be of interest for black.}
2... d6 (2... Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Be2 Bg7 6. O-O Nf6 7. e5 Nh5 8. e6
dxe6 9. Nxc6 Qxd1 10. Rxd1 bxc6 11. Bxh5 gxh5 12. Nc3 O-O) 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4
Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O {Nice to castle before white.} 8. Qd2 Nc6 9.
O-O-O
{I tossed in a variation from 9...a5 which is really just some quick thoughts I had. 9...Nxd4, I don't particularly like trading
pieces without good reason - like if I am ahead in points and have a secure postion. 9...e5 would have been interesting also.}
9... Nxd4 (9... a5 10. Nxc6 bxc6 11. Bh6 Be6 12. Kb1 a4 13. a3 Bd7 14. Bxg7 Kxg7
15. f4 c5 16. f5 Qb6 17. fxg6 hxg6 18. e5 Rab8 19. exf6+ Kh7 20. b3 axb3 21.
fxe7 bxc2+ 22. Kxc2 Qb3+ {The 23.Kc1 variation is not good for white.} 23. Kc1 (
23. Kd3 c4+ (23... Bf5+ 24. Ke3 Qe6+ 25. Kf2 Qxe7 26. Re1 Qa7 27. g4 Bxg4 28.
Rg1 Bf5 29. Qg5 c4+ 30. Kf3 Rb3 31. Re3 Qb7+ 32. Kf4 Qb8 33. Be2 d5+ 34. Kf3 Qa8
35. Re5 d4+ 36. Kf4 Rxc3 37. Rxf5 d3 38. Rxf7+ Rxf7+ 39. Ke5 Qe8+ 40. Kd5 Qb5+
41. Ke6 Qd7+ 42. Ke5 Rf5+ 43. Qxf5 gxf5 {Ow.} 44. Bd1) 24. Ke3 Qxa3 25. Kf2 Rfc8
26. Nb1 Qc5+ 27. Qe3 c3 28. Qxc5 Rxc5 29. Rc1 c2 30. Nd2 Rb2 31. Bd3 Ba4 32.
Rhe1 Rc8 33. h4 Kg7 34. g4 Kf6 35. h5 gxh5 36. gxh5 Re8 37. h6 Rxe7 38. Rxe7
Kxe7 39. h7 Rb8 40. h8=Q Rxh8 41. Bxc2 Bd7 42. Re1+ Kf6 43. Ne4+ Ke5 44. Ng5+
Kf6 45. Nf3 Be6 46. Kg3 d5 47. Kf4 Rd8 48. Rd1 Rd6 49. Rd4 Rc6 50. Ba4 Rd6
{Draw?}) 23... Qxa3+ 24. Kc2 Rb2+ 25. Kd3 Rxd2+ {Ow.}) (9... e5) 10. Bxd4 Be6
11. Kb1 Qc7 12. h4 Rfc8 13. h5 Qa5 {Consider if your opponent played 14.hxg6}
14. h6 (14. hxg6 fxg6 15. e5 Nh5 (15... dxe5 16. Bxe5 Qxe5 17. Re1 Qd6 18. Qxd6
exd6 19. Rxe6 Rd8 20. Rh4 Kf7 21. Re1 Re8 22. Rd1 Re6 23. Bd3 d5 24. f4 Rd6 25.
f5 d4 26. Bc4+ Ke7 27. Re1+ Kd7 28. fxg6 hxg6 29. g4 g5 30. Rh5 Nxg4 31. Rxg5)
16. exd6 exd6 17. Bxg7 Kxg7 18. g4 Nf6 19. Qh6+ Kf7 20. g5 Nh5 21. Qxh7+ Kf8 22.
Qxg6 Ng7 23. Rh8+ Ke7 24. Qxg7+ Bf7 25. Re1+ Kd7 26. Qxf7+ Kc6 27. Bb5+ Kb6 28.
Re7 Rab8 29. Rxc8 Rxc8 30. Rxb7+ Kc5 31. Qc4#) 14... Bh8 15. Nd5 Qxd2 (15... Qa4
16. b3 Qc6 17. Nxf6+ exf6 18. Bb2 Rd8 19. Qd4 Rac8 20. Rd2 d5 21. f4 dxe4 22.
Qe3 f5 23. Bxh8 Kxh8 24. Rg1 Rd3 25. cxd3 Qc1#) 16. Rxd2 Bxd5 17. exd5 Nd7 18.
Bxh8 Kxh8 19. Bb5 Ne5 20. f4 *





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Old April 28th 04, 09:38 AM
Roman M. Parparov
 
Posts: n/a
Default Analysis of this standard Dragon position: ideas needed

matt -`;'- wrote:

"Samik" wrote in message om...
I am in serious trouble with the 9.000 line of the Yugoslav attack.


I don't know if this will help but I threw together a few variations. -matt


this won't.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3
{2...nf6 instead may be interesting. Strengthens the hold on e4, and if 3.d4 then 3...fxd4 4.nxd4 and points are even the knights
may be swapped, but if not then black has developed a knight, not lost the K & Q pawns and as long as e7 does not move then there
would be no pin against the f6 knight. From there a King's Indian would be of interest for black.}


Sorry??? 2....Nf6 3.d4 Nxe4 -/+.
Rather 3.e5! with a totally different game.

2... d6 (2... Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Be2 Bg7 6. O-O Nf6 7. e5 Nh5 8. e6
dxe6 9. Nxc6 Qxd1 10. Rxd1 bxc6 11. Bxh5 gxh5 12. Nc3 O-O)

Again, what's the point with this variation which has no value?
6.0-0 Nxd4 -+, 5.Nc3 is played instead and the variations following
are irrelevant to the posted game.

3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4
Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O {Nice to castle before white.} 8. Qd2 Nc6 9.
O-O-O
{I tossed in a variation from 9...a5 which is really just some quick thoughts I had. 9...Nxd4, I don't particularly like trading
pieces without good reason - like if I am ahead in points and have a secure postion. 9...e5 would have been interesting also.}


9....Nxd4 is one of the two main lines, 9....e5 is a grave positional error
which shows no understanding whatsoever, 9....a5 is just too slow.

And after 9....a5, 10.Nxc6 is absolutely clueless. 10.h4! +/-

9... Nxd4 (9... a5 10. Nxc6 bxc6 11. Bh6 Be6 12. Kb1 a4 13. a3 Bd7 14. Bxg7 Kxg7


--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: http://www.nasa.proj.ac.il/
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)51-34-18-34 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann
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