Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 10:40 AM
Holbox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

[Event "3er Obert de Canet de Mar"]
[Site "Canet de Mar"]
[Date "08.05.2004"]

[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "1925"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[TimeControl "1,5H+1H"]

1. d4 Nf6

2. e3 g6 (I usually try to face the Colle with d5 and c5 but i think this is
really stronger)

3. Bd3 Bg7

4. f4 d6 (I think f4 is a dubious move here because white knight can't get
e5)

5. Nf3 0-0

6. Nbd2 Nbd7

7. b3 Nd5 (White delays castle but, anyway, b3 seems a dubious move and now
black wins a tempo to play e5! because of the two treatenings of winning the
Queen or the e3 pawn)

8. Ne4 e5 (Trying to open the center, Nc4, because of d4 is pinned, could
even be better but I didn't see how to follow)

9. Qd2 exd4

10. exd4 N2f6 (This is not a bad move, i think, but. ..f5! was really strong
because it forces white knight to get out from center and opens the e file
directly against the white king. I didn't played it because I thought i
would have problems after Ng5-e6 but..., Ne6 is not posible and after Ng5,
h6 and then Re8+ Black is better)

From here I gave up my little advantage.

11. 0-0 Re8 (Re8 seems a *natural* move)

12. Nxf6+ Qxf6

13. Rb1 Bd7 (I want to connect the rocks but it's a really passive move)

14. c4 Ne3

15. Re1 Nf5 (I can't take the f4 pawn.)

16. Bb2 Rxe1+ (Probably Nh4, threatening Nxf3, would have been better. But I
didn't want to face d5 and the bishop's exchange would have weaken my king
side).

17. Rxe1 Re8

18. Rxe8 Bxe8

19. Bxf5 Qxf5 (White plays another dubious move..., I think)

(* Please could some of you give me a goal from here to go for a win *)

20. Qe1 Bd7 (Bc6 was interesting)

21. Bc1 Bf6 (It's a solid but slow move. Qb1 was also interesting)

22. h3 Qd6 (Threatening Bxh3 and Qxf3 winning a pawn, and Bxd5+ Nxd5 Qxd5+
winning also a pawn)

23. Be3 Bf5

24. Kh2 Be4

25. Qf2 Qc2 (better was Bxf3 because it's not possible to go for the a,b
pawns)

26. Qxc2 Bxc2

27. Kg3 a4 (Start hard time trouble)

28. Bd2 b3

29. c5 dxc5

30. dxc5 Be4 (Finish hard time trouble)

31. Ne5 Bxe5

32. fxe5 Kf8

33. cxb6 cxb6

34. Be3 b5

35. Bb6 draw


I think i could win this game.


  #2   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 01:36 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

En/na Holbox ha escrit:

(....)

PGN corrected file:

[Event "3er Obert de Canet de Mar"]
[Site "Canet de Mar"]
[Date "08.05.2004"]
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "1925"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[TimeControl "1,5H+1H"]

1. d4 Nf6
2. e3 g6 {I usually try to face the Colle with d5 and c5 but i think
this is really stronger}

3. Bd3 Bg7

4. f4 d6 {I think f4 is a dubious move here because white knight can't
get e5}

5. Nf3 0-0

6. Nbd2 Nbd7

7. b3 Nd5 {White delays castle but, anyway, b3 seems a dubious move and
now black wins a tempo to play e5! because of the two treatenings of
winning the Queen or the e3 pawn}

8. Ne4 e5 {Trying to open the center, Nc4, because of d4 is pinned,
could even be better but I didn't see how to follow}

9. Qd2 exd4

10. exd4 N7f6
{This is not a bad move, i think, but. ..f5! was really strong
because it forces white knight to get out from center and opens the e
file directly against the white king. I didn't played it because I
thought i would have problems after Ng5-e6 but..., Ne6 is not posible
and after Ng5, h6 and then Re8+ Black is better.
From here I gave up my little advantage.}

11. 0-0 Re8 {Re8 seems a *natural* move}

12. Nxf6+ Qxf6

13. Rb1 Bd7 {I want to connect the rocks but it's a really passive move}

14. c4 Ne3

15. Re1 Nf5 {I can't take the f4 pawn.}

16. Bb2 Rxe1+ {Probably Nh4, threatening Nxf3, would have been better.
But I didn't want to face d5 and the bishop's exchange would have weaken
my king side}.

17. Rxe1 Re8

18. Rxe8 Bxe8

19. Bxf5 Qxf5 {White plays another dubious move..., I think}

{* Please could some of you give me a goal from here to go for a win *}

20. Qe1 Bd7 {Bc6 was interesting}

21. Bc1 Bf6 {It's a solid but slow move. Qb1 was also interesting}

22. h3 Qd3 {Threatening Bxh3 and Qxf3 winning a pawn, and Bxd5+ Nxd5
Qxd5+ winning also a pawn}

23. Be3 Bf5

24. Kh2 Be4

25. Qf2 Qc2 {better was Bxf3 because it's not possible to go for the a,b
pawns}

26. Qxc2 Bxc2

27. Kg3 a5 {Start hard time trouble}

28. Bd2 b6

29. c5 dxc5

30. dxc5 Be4 {Finish hard time trouble}

31. Ne5 Bxe5

32. fxe5 Kf8

33. cxb6 cxb6

34. Be3 b5

35. Bb6
{draw, I think i could win this game.}

Ps: qui ets Holbox?, ...

  #3   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 03:10 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:
En/na Holbox ha escrit:

(....)

PGN corrected file:


[Event "3er Obert de Canet de Mar"]
[Site "Canet de Mar"]
[Date "08.05.2004"]
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "1925"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[TimeControl "1,5H+1H"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 {I usually try to face the Colle with d5 and c5 but i
think this is really stronger} 3. Bd3 Bg7 4. f4 d6 {I think f4 is a
dubious move here because white knight can't get e5} 5. Nf3 0-0 6. Nbd2
Nbd7 7. b3 Nd5 {White delays castle but, anyway, b3 seems a dubious move
and now black wins a tempo to play e5! because of the two treatenings of
winning the Queen or the e3 pawn} 8. Ne4 e5 {Trying to open the center,
Nc4, because of d4 is pinned, could even be better but I didn't see how
to follow} 9. Qd2 exd4 10. exd4 N7f6 {This is not a bad move, i think,
but. ..f5! was really strong because it forces white knight to get out
from center and opens the e file directly against the white king. I
didn't played it because I thought i would have problems after Ng5-e6
but..., Ne6 is not posible and after Ng5, h6 and then Re8+ Black is
better. From here I gave up my little advantage.} 11. 0-0 Re8 {Re8 seems
a *natural* move} 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Rb1 Bd7 {I want to connect the
rocks but it's a really passive move} 14. c4 Ne3 15. Re1 Nf5 {I can't
take the f4 pawn.} 16. Bb2 Rxe1+ {Probably Nh4, threatening Nxf3, would
have been better. But I didn't want to face d5 and the bishop's exchange
would have weaken my king side}. 17. Rxe1 Re8 18. Rxe8 Bxe8 19. Bxf5
Qxf5 {White plays another dubious move..., I think} {* Please could some
of you give me a goal from here to go for a win *} 20. Qe1 Bd7 {Bc6 was
interesting} 21. Bc1 Bf6 {It's a solid but slow move. Qb1 was also
interesting} 22. h3 Qd3 {Threatening Bxh3 and Qxf3 winning a pawn, and
Bxd5+ Nxd5 Qxd5+ winning also a pawn} 23. Be3 Bf5 24. Kh2 Be4 25. Qf2
Qc2 {better was Bxf3 because it's not possible to go for the a,b pawns}
26. Qxc2 Bxc2 27. Kg3 a5 {Start hard time trouble} 28. Bd2 b6 29. c5
dxc5 30. dxc5 Be4 {Finish hard time trouble} 31. Ne5 Bxe5 32. fxe5 Kf8
33. cxb6 cxb6 34. Be3 b5 35. Bb6 {draw, I think i could win this game.}

--------------

why do you think you was better? ... you did not justify your feels.

In the position after 19th move: black has two bishops, white king is
more "exposed", "f4, e4 and d4" are weak ... but that advantage is very
hard to concrete (and more at 1700 level)

After 27th move, the ending is better for black but not easy under
"master level".

Sometimes, players play positions very similar to "positional clasical
masterpieces" but the game continuation is far from the easy way the
master did in the clasical example. The reason is that chess is very
difficult and it's not easy to imite those examples.

AT
Barcelona

  #4   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 03:28 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:

En/na Holbox ha escrit:
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]


Ps: qui ets Holbox?, ...


maybe "C.S." ?

AT

  #5   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 04:13 PM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

Holbox wrote:


(* Please could some of you give me a goal from here to go for a win *)

20. Qe1 Bd7 (Bc6 was interesting)

21. Bc1 Bf6 (It's a solid but slow move. Qb1 was also interesting)

22. h3 Qd6 (Threatening Bxh3 and Qxf3 winning a pawn, and Bxd5+ Nxd5 Qxd5+
winning also a pawn)

You need to create weaknesses in White's position in order to take
advantage of your bishops pair. I'd suggest 24...b5 to break up the
white pawn chain. Pawn islands are easier to attack than a closed pawn
chain. For example:

22...b5 23. Be3 bxc4 24. bxc4 Qd3 25. c5 (25. Qc1 Qe2 with the threats
Qxa2 and Bxh3) 25...Qa3 with advantage. Also 23. cxb5 Qxb5 24. Qc3
(preventing Qd3) 24...c5 25. Be3 Bc6 (threat Qe2) 26. Kf2 Bd5 27. Qc2
c4 28. bxc4 Bxc4 looks good for Black. The white a-pawn is vulnerable.

23. Be3 Bf5


Still b5 was good. 23...b5 24. cxb5 Qxb5 25. Qc3 Bc6 with the plan to
attack the queenside with a7-a5-a4.

23...b5 24. c5 a5 followed by b4 looks very good for Black.

Claus-Juergen


  #6   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 05:39 PM
Holbox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.


"Antonio Torrecillas" escribió en el mensaje
...
En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:

En/na Holbox ha escrit:
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]


Ps: qui ets Holbox?, ...


maybe "C.S." ?


Sip. ;-)


AT



  #7   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 05:56 PM
Holbox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.


I don't know enough chess to win this game but

why do you think you was better? ... you did not justify your feels.


After 10. exd4... Black seems better..., I think so, don't you?

In the position after 19th move: black has two bishops, white king is
more "exposed", "f4, e4 and d4" are weak ... but that advantage is very
hard to concrete (and more at 1700 level)


This is true. I don't know *the way* to win the game. This is why I have
published it .

Sometimes, players play positions very similar to "positional clasical
masterpieces" but the game continuation is far from the easy way the
master did in the clasical example. The reason is that chess is very
difficult and it's not easy to imite those examples.


I don't understand "positional clasical masterpieces". Do you mean the
position we got is known? Where could i find the "clasical example"?

Regards,
Carles

"Antonio Torrecillas" escribió en el mensaje
...
En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:
En/na Holbox ha escrit:

(....)

PGN corrected file:


[Event "3er Obert de Canet de Mar"]
[Site "Canet de Mar"]
[Date "08.05.2004"]
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "1925"]
[BlackElo "1700"]
[TimeControl "1,5H+1H"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 g6 {I usually try to face the Colle with d5 and c5 but i
think this is really stronger} 3. Bd3 Bg7 4. f4 d6 {I think f4 is a
dubious move here because white knight can't get e5} 5. Nf3 0-0 6. Nbd2
Nbd7 7. b3 Nd5 {White delays castle but, anyway, b3 seems a dubious move
and now black wins a tempo to play e5! because of the two treatenings of
winning the Queen or the e3 pawn} 8. Ne4 e5 {Trying to open the center,
Nc4, because of d4 is pinned, could even be better but I didn't see how
to follow} 9. Qd2 exd4 10. exd4 N7f6 {This is not a bad move, i think,
but. ..f5! was really strong because it forces white knight to get out
from center and opens the e file directly against the white king. I
didn't played it because I thought i would have problems after Ng5-e6
but..., Ne6 is not posible and after Ng5, h6 and then Re8+ Black is
better. From here I gave up my little advantage.} 11. 0-0 Re8 {Re8 seems
a *natural* move} 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Rb1 Bd7 {I want to connect the
rocks but it's a really passive move} 14. c4 Ne3 15. Re1 Nf5 {I can't
take the f4 pawn.} 16. Bb2 Rxe1+ {Probably Nh4, threatening Nxf3, would
have been better. But I didn't want to face d5 and the bishop's exchange
would have weaken my king side}. 17. Rxe1 Re8 18. Rxe8 Bxe8 19. Bxf5
Qxf5 {White plays another dubious move..., I think} {* Please could some
of you give me a goal from here to go for a win *} 20. Qe1 Bd7 {Bc6 was
interesting} 21. Bc1 Bf6 {It's a solid but slow move. Qb1 was also
interesting} 22. h3 Qd3 {Threatening Bxh3 and Qxf3 winning a pawn, and
Bxd5+ Nxd5 Qxd5+ winning also a pawn} 23. Be3 Bf5 24. Kh2 Be4 25. Qf2
Qc2 {better was Bxf3 because it's not possible to go for the a,b pawns}
26. Qxc2 Bxc2 27. Kg3 a5 {Start hard time trouble} 28. Bd2 b6 29. c5
dxc5 30. dxc5 Be4 {Finish hard time trouble} 31. Ne5 Bxe5 32. fxe5 Kf8
33. cxb6 cxb6 34. Be3 b5 35. Bb6 {draw, I think i could win this game.}

--------------

why do you think you was better? ... you did not justify your feels.

In the position after 19th move: black has two bishops, white king is
more "exposed", "f4, e4 and d4" are weak ... but that advantage is very
hard to concrete (and more at 1700 level)

After 27th move, the ending is better for black but not easy under
"master level".

Sometimes, players play positions very similar to "positional clasical
masterpieces" but the game continuation is far from the easy way the
master did in the clasical example. The reason is that chess is very
difficult and it's not easy to imite those examples.

AT
Barcelona



  #8   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 09:08 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

En/na Holbox ha escrit:

"Antonio Torrecillas" escribió en el mensaje
...

En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:


En/na Holbox ha escrit:
[White "P.M."]
[Black "Me"]


Ps: qui ets Holbox?, ...


maybe "C.S." ?



Sip. ;-)

AT


Hello "C.S.", I find hard to understand why people don't write here the
names and complete data of the game, ... but maybe it's me who is wrong.

AT

  #9   Report Post  
Old May 11th 04, 09:24 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Complete game analysis.

En/na Holbox ha escrit:

I don't know enough chess to win this game but ...

why do you think you was better? ... you did not justify your feels.


After 10. exd4... Black seems better..., I think so, don't you?


After 10.exd4 I agree, black is better, ... but that do not mean too
much, there is a lot of game to be played and a lot of opportunities to
both players in that position.

In the position after 19th move: black has two bishops, white king is
more "exposed", "f4, e4 and d4" are weak ... but that advantage is very
hard to concrete (and more at 1700 level)


This is true. I don't know *the way* to win the game. This is why I have
published it .


In my humble opinion, it's a better approach to do yourself the work of
analizing your game and proposing (for example here) possible
improvements to be discussed. I think that if anyone here shows you the
way (if there is a clear way to win in some moment) you will learn less
than doing the work for yourself.

Sometimes, players play positions very similar to "positional clasical
masterpieces" but the game continuation is far from the easy way the
master did in the clasical example. The reason is that chess is very
difficult and it's not easy to imite those examples.


I don't understand "positional clasical masterpieces". Do you mean the
position we got is known? Where could i find the "clasical example"?


I refer to some classical game showing "how easy" is to win with the
bishop pair (like in that game you had).
But, as I said in my previous message, chess is not so simple!!

Regards,
Carles


- You wrote: "10...N7f6 {This is not a bad move, i think, but. ..f5!
was really strong because it forces white knight to get out from center
and opens the e file directly against the white king. I didn't played it
because I thought i would have problems after Ng5-e6 but..., Ne6 is not
posible and after Ng5, h6 and then Re8+ Black is better. From here I
gave up my little advantage.}"

I think that analizing this 10...f5 possibility you will learn more than
reading anyone opinion no matter how strong He is.

- You wrote: 13.... Bd7 {I want to connect the rocks but it's a really
passive move}"

The same advice, try to analize this position by yourself and propose
alternatives and give entire lines with your own evaluations.

In the following moves you wrote many times "xxx was interesting", that
can mean you are not interested in analizing that position and discover
if it was better or not than the move played.

greetings from Barcelona (and greetings to Pep too) :-)
Antonio


Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017