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Old May 14th 04, 04:44 PM
Curtist Thetford
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

I see this opening quite a bit in internet games and was wondering what is
generally the best way to handle the gambit? Generally I score pretty well
as black against the opening, but I definitely have to play very careful
defense and always spend the whole game on my heels.. I actually had played
this game into a losing position before my opp hung his Queen.

1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5. Bxb2 d6 6. Nc3 Nf6 7. Qb3
Qe7
8. Nf3 Nbd7 9. O-O Nc5 10. Qc2 Be6 11. Nd5 Bxd5 12. exd5 O-O-O 13. Rfe1
Qd7
14. a4 Be7 15. Bb5 c6 16. dxc6 bxc6 17. Bf1 Rhe8 18. Bd4 g6 19. Bxc5
dxc5
20. Ba6+ Kc7 21. Ne5 Qd2 22. Qb3 Qb4 23. Qg3 Bd6 24. Qg5 Bxe5 25. Rxe5
Rxe5
26. Qxe5+ Kb6 27. Qxf6 Rd2 28. a5+ Kc7 29. Qxf7+ Rd7 30. Qf4+ Qxf4
{White resigns}
0-1

The computer has pointed out the tactical errors that I made (I really
missed a chance on move 25), but I guess I'm wondering strategically, what
is the right way to handle this gambit? Is it OK to take all of the
freebies in the opening, or should I stop after winning 1 pawn and get on
with development? Does black typically castle queen-side to stay out of the
line of fire of the two bishops? What is the most efficient way for black
to get back the initiative and make use of the extra pawns? I usually, just
look for chances to trade pieces and give back one of the two pawns
somewhere along the way to get the intiative back and then try to win with
the extra pawn in the ending. This opening seems much like the Fried Liver
in that while it may not be sound, black is always on the brink of
disaster.



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Old May 14th 04, 04:52 PM
bruno de baenst
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

Opening is called the danish gambit.
Is much sounder than it looks, but in main lines black equalizes.
Easiest way probably 1)e4 e5 2)d4 exd4 3)c3 d5 giving pawn back immediately.


"Curtist Thetford" schreef in bericht
...
I see this opening quite a bit in internet games and was wondering what is
generally the best way to handle the gambit? Generally I score pretty

well
as black against the opening, but I definitely have to play very careful
defense and always spend the whole game on my heels.. I actually had

played
this game into a losing position before my opp hung his Queen.

1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5. Bxb2 d6 6. Nc3 Nf6 7. Qb3
Qe7
8. Nf3 Nbd7 9. O-O Nc5 10. Qc2 Be6 11. Nd5 Bxd5 12. exd5 O-O-O 13. Rfe1
Qd7
14. a4 Be7 15. Bb5 c6 16. dxc6 bxc6 17. Bf1 Rhe8 18. Bd4 g6 19. Bxc5
dxc5
20. Ba6+ Kc7 21. Ne5 Qd2 22. Qb3 Qb4 23. Qg3 Bd6 24. Qg5 Bxe5 25. Rxe5
Rxe5
26. Qxe5+ Kb6 27. Qxf6 Rd2 28. a5+ Kc7 29. Qxf7+ Rd7 30. Qf4+ Qxf4
{White resigns}
0-1

The computer has pointed out the tactical errors that I made (I really
missed a chance on move 25), but I guess I'm wondering strategically, what
is the right way to handle this gambit? Is it OK to take all of the
freebies in the opening, or should I stop after winning 1 pawn and get on
with development? Does black typically castle queen-side to stay out of

the
line of fire of the two bishops? What is the most efficient way for black
to get back the initiative and make use of the extra pawns? I usually,

just
look for chances to trade pieces and give back one of the two pawns
somewhere along the way to get the intiative back and then try to win

with
the extra pawn in the ending. This opening seems much like the Fried

Liver
in that while it may not be sound, black is always on the brink of
disaster.





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Old May 14th 04, 05:42 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

In article ,
"Curtist Thetford" wrote:

I see this opening quite a bit in internet games and was wondering what is
generally the best way to handle the gambit? Generally I score pretty well
as black against the opening, but I definitely have to play very careful
defense and always spend the whole game on my heels.. I actually had played
this game into a losing position before my opp hung his Queen.

1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5. Bxb2 d6 6. Nc3 Nf6 7. Qb3
Qe7
8. Nf3 Nbd7 9. O-O Nc5 10. Qc2 Be6 11. Nd5 Bxd5 12. exd5 O-O-O 13. Rfe1
Qd7
14. a4 Be7 15. Bb5 c6 16. dxc6 bxc6 17. Bf1 Rhe8 18. Bd4 g6 19. Bxc5
dxc5
20. Ba6+ Kc7 21. Ne5 Qd2 22. Qb3 Qb4 23. Qg3 Bd6 24. Qg5 Bxe5 25. Rxe5
Rxe5
26. Qxe5+ Kb6 27. Qxf6 Rd2 28. a5+ Kc7 29. Qxf7+ Rd7 30. Qf4+ Qxf4
{White resigns}
0-1


The main line runs 5. ... d5! 6.Bxd5 Nf6

Now you'll often see:

7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Qxd8 Bb4+! with an aproximately even ending where the
better player should win because of the passed pawns on opposite wings.
Some people think black is slightly better here because his majority is
on the queenside.

But you also need to be prepared for white to continue to play in a
gambit style:

7.Nc3! Nxd5 8.Nxd5 when white clearly has some compensation for his
pawn deficit, but is it enough? Beware the very tempting 8. ... c6?
here, because it loses to 9.Nf6+!

-Ron
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Old May 14th 04, 10:35 PM
Mike Ogush
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

On Fri, 14 May 2004 15:44:51 GMT, "Curtist Thetford"
wrote:

I see this opening quite a bit in internet games and was wondering what is
generally the best way to handle the gambit? Generally I score pretty well
as black against the opening, but I definitely have to play very careful
defense and always spend the whole game on my heels.. I actually had played
this game into a losing position before my opp hung his Queen.

1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5. Bxb2 d6 6. Nc3 Nf6 7. Qb3
Qe7
8. Nf3 Nbd7 9. O-O Nc5 10. Qc2 Be6 11. Nd5 Bxd5 12. exd5 O-O-O 13. Rfe1
Qd7
14. a4 Be7 15. Bb5 c6 16. dxc6 bxc6 17. Bf1 Rhe8 18. Bd4 g6 19. Bxc5
dxc5
20. Ba6+ Kc7 21. Ne5 Qd2 22. Qb3 Qb4 23. Qg3 Bd6 24. Qg5 Bxe5 25. Rxe5
Rxe5
26. Qxe5+ Kb6 27. Qxf6 Rd2 28. a5+ Kc7 29. Qxf7+ Rd7 30. Qf4+ Qxf4
{White resigns}


0-1

The computer has pointed out the tactical errors that I made (I really
missed a chance on move 25), but I guess I'm wondering strategically, what
is the right way to handle this gambit? Is it OK to take all of the
freebies in the opening, or should I stop after winning 1 pawn and get on
with development? Does black typically castle queen-side to stay out of the
line of fire of the two bishops? What is the most efficient way for black
to get back the initiative and make use of the extra pawns? I usually, just
look for chances to trade pieces and give back one of the two pawns
somewhere along the way to get the intiative back and then try to win with
the extra pawn in the ending. This opening seems much like the Fried Liver
in that while it may not be sound, black is always on the brink of
disaster.


This is the Danish Gambit. As far as I know there are two books on
this opening:

The older "Danish Gambit 2nd ed." by John Lutes (1992)
Recently published: "Danish Dynamite" by Karsten Mueller & Martin
Voigt (2003) [see John Watson review at
http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwatsonbkrev62.html which also
includes some analysis of lines]

2.d4 exd4 can also reach the Goering Gambit by transpostion. The
normal move order for the Goering is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3
dxc3 5.Nxc3 and 6.Bc4) Both of the books mentioned above cover these
lines as well.

The main idea in either the Danish or the Goering gambit is for Black
to play ...d5 fairly early (at move 4 or 5 in the Danish) giving back
a pawn in order to accellerate development and to blunt White's
initiative. After Bxd5 Nf6 is developing with tempo (threatening to
exchange the bishop); after exd5 the attacking line of the Bc4 on f7
is blocked by the pawn.

The move you played 5...d6 may be sufficient to get equality but
requires more care from Black. I could only find 2 games that reached
the position after Black's 7th move. Both were won by white after
8.Nge2.

I believe that theory prefers Black moving the ....Qd7 after Qb3. The
idea is not prevent ...Be7 and early ...O-O; it isn't a good idea to
castle queenside where white has two semi-open files to attck on. Also
White used and unusal move order (playing Nc3 before Qb3); one
possible way to take advantage this would have been to play 5...Be6
when White must either trade bishops or lose a tempo retreating the
Bc4.

Some further suggestions for the game itself:
i) 10...c6 before ...Be6 in order to deny squares (d5 & b5) to
white's knight.
ii)11...Qd8 avoiding opening the e-file and intending to follow up
with ...Be7 and ...O-O

Once Black has castled queenside I believe White has the advantage
although I am not sure if White's attack is unstoppable. Black
certainly had an inferior position after his 16th move (although White
failed to capitalize on with 17.Bxc6 Qxc6 18.Rxe7 Rd7 19.Qf5 Kd8
20.Re3 when white has more than compensation for the pawn deficit: all
of blacks' pawns are weak & black's king position is not secure).

General advice:
In combatting a gambit the side who accepted the gambit
wants to either
a) trade material down to an ending where the material advantage is
enough to win or
b) return the material gambited in order to reach a superior position.
All the while the gambit accepter needs to blunt the initative of his
opponent by denying squares to the opponent's knights, blocking
diagonals, closing open files or not opening them, etc.





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Old May 14th 04, 10:59 PM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

En/na Curtist Thetford ha escrit:

The computer has pointed out the tactical errors that I made (I really
missed a chance on move 25), but I guess I'm wondering strategically, what
is the right way to handle this gambit? Is it OK to take all of the
freebies in the opening, or should I stop after winning 1 pawn and get on
with development?


You have seen what can happen when a player has a pooor development like
you had in that game.

Does black typically castle queen-side to stay out of the
line of fire of the two bishops?


You have seen what can happen when white has open lines in opposite
attacks like white had in your game.

What is the most efficient way for black
to get back the initiative and make use of the extra pawns? I usually, just
look for chances to trade pieces and give back one of the two pawns
somewhere along the way to get the intiative back and then try to win with
the extra pawn in the ending.


That is a good idea, but sometimes white activity is so strong that no
material concesions can stop the initiative.

This opening seems much like the Fried Liver
in that while it may not be sound, black is always on the brink of
disaster.


In chess the material advantage is very important but activity
(development, open lines, center control, ... ) is very important too.
There are a lot of lines where we can see the fight between those two
factors and to know when one is stronger than other is more than difficult.

In that concrete line you have a choice:
- To stop white initiative with the lines mentioned in Ron or Bruno post.
- To accept the challenge but with the clear idea that you are not
better, you have a hard fight for the following moves.

Your choice depend on your style and your needs, in general at low or
non professional levels defence (like black need after accepting the
pawn or pawns) is a harder task and it's easy to made a mistake. But
it's true too that playing those positions you will improve faster your
tactical skills.

AT



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Old May 16th 04, 07:24 PM
Luis Matos
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

Ron wrote:


1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5. Bxb2


The main line runs 5. ... d5! 6.Bxd5 Nf6

Now you'll often see:

7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Qxd8 Bb4+! with an aproximately even ending where the
better player should win because of the passed pawns on opposite wings.
Some people think black is slightly better here because his majority is
on the queenside.

But you also need to be prepared for white to continue to play in a
gambit style:

7.Nc3! Nxd5 8.Nxd5 when white clearly has some compensation for his
pawn deficit, but is it enough? Beware the very tempting 8. ... c6?
here, because it loses to 9.Nf6+!

-Ron



Dear Ron:

Could you please explain what would happen after 9 --- Qxf6 and after 9
--- gxf6?

thanks a lot
Luis


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Old May 17th 04, 02:29 PM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to deal with this gambit?

Luis Matos wrote:

Could you please explain what would happen after 9 --- Qxf6 and after 9
--- gxf6?


9...Qxf6 10. Bxf6
9...gxf6 10. Qxd8+ Kxd8 11. Bxf6+ and 12. Bxh8.

The solution for Black would be 8...Nd7 and 9...c6.

Claus-Juergen
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