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Old June 15th 04, 05:45 PM
8L45T3R
 
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Default How can i calculate...

how can i calculate position advantage? (i don't know exactly word but hope
you will understand)

in all computer chess programs i see something like B+0.29 or B-0.11 or
W+0.34 etc... how computer calculate that?

tnx


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Old June 16th 04, 04:57 PM
Lazaro Munoz
 
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Default How can i calculate...

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:45:42 +0200, 8L45T3R
wrote:

You will need to first understand the various components to a "positional
advantange".
A good start would be "The Middle Game in Chess" recently republished in
Algebraic by
David Mckay Publishers or "New Ideas in Chess" by Larry Evans available as
Dover reprint
only in descriptive but very good and cheap.

The important thing to remember is that in most cases a positional
advantange will need to
be converted into either material advantage (force) or mating attack.
Actually a material
advantage will eventually lead to mating attack in the endgame if the
opponent does not
resign before that point. So you may see weak pawns, etc. This means
that you strategy
or plan will include bearing down on those weak pawns and eventually
winning them while
not trying to give up other advantages to your opponent in the process.
If however you
find your opponent has defended those pawns adequately he will have to
have allowed some
other weakness in the process that you can attack instead, etc.

When you see computers give such and such pawn equivalent advantages in
material even
position, it means that the programmer feels that in the long term it is
worth about that
may pawns in the end given enough games using this position, ie. as in
your example, B+0.29
(lets just say B+0.3) this means (I assume it means that Black has
advantage of 0.3 pawns)
that over 10 games it will have a 1 pawn advantage in the endgame in 3 out
10 games, etc.

I hope that helps.
--laz

how can i calculate position advantage? (i don't know exactly word but
hope
you will understand)

in all computer chess programs i see something like B+0.29 or B-0.11 or
W+0.34 etc... how computer calculate that?

tnx





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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Old June 16th 04, 10:39 PM
Mike Ogush
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can i calculate...

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:57:18 -0400, "Lazaro Munoz"
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:45:42 +0200, 8L45T3R
wrote:

You will need to first understand the various components to a "positional
advantange".
A good start would be "The Middle Game in Chess" recently republished in
Algebraic by
David Mckay Publishers or "New Ideas in Chess" by Larry Evans available as
Dover reprint
only in descriptive but very good and cheap.


Some other books that may prove useful in understanding positional
evaluation:
"Elements of Positional Evaluation" by Dan Heisman and any of "How to
Reasses Your Chess", "The Amateur's Mind" or "The How to Reasses Your
Chess Workbook" all by Jeremy Silman. Silman does the best job I have
at explaining evalution in terms of imabalances.


The important thing to remember is that in most cases a positional
advantange will need to
be converted into either material advantage (force) or mating attack.
Actually a material
advantage will eventually lead to mating attack in the endgame if the
opponent does not
resign before that point. So you may see weak pawns, etc. This means
that you strategy
or plan will include bearing down on those weak pawns and eventually
winning them while
not trying to give up other advantages to your opponent in the process.
If however you
find your opponent has defended those pawns adequately he will have to
have allowed some
other weakness in the process that you can attack instead, etc.

When you see computers give such and such pawn equivalent advantages in
material even
position, it means that the programmer feels that in the long term it is
worth about that
may pawns in the end given enough games using this position, ie. as in
your example, B+0.29
(lets just say B+0.3) this means (I assume it means that Black has
advantage of 0.3 pawns)
that over 10 games it will have a 1 pawn advantage in the endgame in 3 out
10 games, etc.


If you want to undersatnd in depth how a computer comes up with a
numeric evaluation of a position, you could look at the source code
for a chess program. You can download the source for several programs
from the net, including crafty which plays at IM strength.

I hope that helps.
--laz

how can i calculate position advantage? (i don't know exactly word but
hope
you will understand)

in all computer chess programs i see something like B+0.29 or B-0.11 or
W+0.34 etc... how computer calculate that?

tnx





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


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Old June 20th 04, 03:27 AM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default How can i calculate...

The important thing to remember is that in most cases a positional
advantange will need to
be converted into either material advantage (force) or mating attack.


As opposed to the other cases, where the special-ops team bursts onto the
board and takes out the enemy king while rescuing the queen?



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Old June 20th 04, 03:31 AM
Ray Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can i calculate...

Some other books that may prove useful in understanding positional
evaluation:
"Elements of Positional Evaluation" by Dan Heisman and any of "How to
Reasses Your Chess", "The Amateur's Mind" or "The How to Reasses Your
Chess Workbook" all by Jeremy Silman. Silman does the best job I have
at explaining evalution in terms of imabalances.


I spent August 1988 studying Silman for several hours a week. He improved
my game by communicating how an IM thinks. What makes that book great is
that it's written with the beginner in mind yet explains very advanced
concepts. He doesn't take much for granted the way most GMs would, and
explains why one side is better than the other.

Silman's book teaches players to think like chessplayers rather than
wandering aimlessly from move to move.

I find the weakness of the book, however, to be the same as its strength:
the typical reader is not going to become an IM, and Silman knows this. For
the reader who wants to be a GM, most of the general rules that apply to
casual players have to be reversed: i.e., he needs to make chess his life,
forego other activities, and so forth. Silman's book is too generalized for
that level of study, but it's a great first step in that direction, as long
as the reader recognizes that he needs to continue to become more precise
after he's grasped the material.





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Old June 21st 04, 07:54 PM
Lazaro Munoz
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can i calculate...

True. The point I was making is that to utilize advantages (any advantage)
a certain amount of technique will be required that will also need to be
studied, such as mating attacks (good books here is the Renaud "The Art
of Checkmate", although it is in english descriptive it is excellent,
Vuckovic, "Art of Attack") as well as endgame books (Averbakhs "Chess
Ending's Essential Knowledge" is a good starter, "Dvoretsky's Endgame
Manual" is good follow up) in order to convert positional advantages to
a full point.

I was thinking of the other cases where material is won and your opponent
resigns before the eventual outcome.

--lkaz

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 02:27:57 GMT, Ray Gordon wrote:

The important thing to remember is that in most cases a positional
advantange will need to
be converted into either material advantage (force) or mating attack.


As opposed to the other cases, where the special-ops team bursts onto the
board and takes out the enemy king while rescuing the queen?






--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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