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Old June 19th 04, 05:33 PM
Michael Sayers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

A Yahoo group has been set up to examine the Schliemann Defence to the
Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5). Frank Marshall made
spectacular use of this line. There are also important games in which
the defence was played by Rudolf Spielmann and David Bronstein.

The group address is:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/...iemannDefence/


Regards,
Michael Sayers
  #2   Report Post  
Old June 20th 04, 12:26 AM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

It's a dubious line but very strong against an unprepared opponent. White
has nothing to fear if he studies the opening, however.

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"Michael Sayers" wrote in message
om...
A Yahoo group has been set up to examine the Schliemann Defence to the
Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5). Frank Marshall made
spectacular use of this line. There are also important games in which
the defence was played by Rudolf Spielmann and David Bronstein.

The group address is:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/...iemannDefence/


Regards,
Michael Sayers



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Old June 20th 04, 04:40 PM
Michael Sayers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

"Ray Gordon" wrote in message .. .
It's a dubious line but very strong against an unprepared opponent. White
has nothing to fear if he studies the opening, however.


Here is a game between Spassky and Kholmov in that opening. Would you
have us believe that the reason Spassky didn't win, is that he never
studied the Schliemann variation of the Ruy Lopez?

[Event "Ch URS"]
[Site "Baku (Azerbaijan)"]
[Date "1961.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "B V Spassky"]
[Black "Kholmov Ratmir D"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "104"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7.
Nxc6 Qd5 8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Nb5 Nf6 12. O-O c6
13. Nc3 Bc5 14. d4 exd3 15. Re1+ Kf7 16. Be3 Bxe3 17. Rxe3 Rad8 18.
Qf3 Rhe8 19. Ne4 Qd4 20. Nxf6 Rxe3 21. fxe3 Qxf6 22. Kf2 Ke6 23. Qxf6+
gxf6 24. Ke1 Rg8 25. g3 Rg5 26. Rd1 Rh5 27. h4 Rf5 28. Rxd3 Rf3 29. g4
Rh3 30. h5 Rg3 31. Rb3 Rxg4 32. Rxb7 Rxc4 33. Rxh7 Rc2 34. h6 Rxb2 35.
Ra7 Rh2 36. h7 c5 37. a4 Kd5 38. Rf7 c4 39. a5 c3 40. Kd1 Kc4 41. a6
c2+ 42. Kc1 Kb3 43. Rb7+ Kc3 44. Rc7+ Kb3 45. a7 Rh1+ 46. Kd2 Rd1+ 47.
Ke2 Rd8 48. e4 Kb2 49. Rb7+ Kc3 50. Rb8 c1=Q 51. Rxd8 Qh1 52. Rc8+ Kb3
1/2-1/2

I am inclined to think that he HAD studied it, since there is a 1957
game in which he draws with it vs. Tal, and another 1957 game (vs.
Lehmann) which Spassky won:

[Event "URS-ch Tbilisi"]
[Site "URS-ch Tbilisi"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Mikhail N Tal"]
[Black "B V Spassky"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "62"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. exf5 Nd4 6. Nxe5 Bc5 7.
O-O O-O 8. Nf3 c6 9. Nxd4 Bxd4 10. Bd3 d5 11. Ne2 Be5 12. Ng3 Ne4 13.
Bxe4 dxe4 14. d3 exd3 15. Qxd3 Qxd3 16. cxd3 Bxg3 17. hxg3 Bxf5 18. d4
Rad8 19. Be3 Rd5 20. Rfc1 Rb5 21. b3 Rd8 22. Rc4 Rbd5 23. Rac1 Kf7 24.
Ra4 a6 25. Rc5 Bd3 26. Ra3 Rxc5 27. dxc5 Bb5 28. b4 Rd1+ 29. Kh2 Bc4
30. Bf4 Rf1 31. Be3 1/2-1/2

[Event "Wien-Baden"]
[Site "Wien-Baden"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "H Lehmann"]
[Black "B V Spassky"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "46"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nd4 5. Ba4 Nf6 6. O-O Bc5 7. Nxe5
O-O 8. Nd3 fxe4 9. Nxc5 d5 10. Bb3 Kh8 11. Bxd5 Nxd5 12. N5xe4 Nb4 13.
d3 Nbxc2 14. Bg5 Qd7 15. Rc1 Nb4 16. Qa4 Qxa4 17. Nxa4 Ne2+ 18. Kh1
Nxc1 19. Rxc1 Nxd3 20. Rxc7 Nxf2+ 21. Nxf2 Rxf2 22. Kg1 Re2 23. Bf4
Re4 0-1


Regards,
Michael Sayers
  #4   Report Post  
Old June 20th 04, 10:43 PM
Ray Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

It's a dubious line but very strong against an unprepared opponent.
White
has nothing to fear if he studies the opening, however.


Here is a game between Spassky and Kholmov in that opening. Would you
have us believe that the reason Spassky didn't win, is that he never
studied the Schliemann variation of the Ruy Lopez?



Would you have us believe that opening theory in 1961 was definitive?

Many GMs play weak opening moves.



  #5   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 04, 10:01 PM
Helpful person
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

"Ray Gordon" wrote in message .. .
It's a dubious line but very strong against an unprepared opponent. White
has nothing to fear if he studies the opening, however.

--


It is far from a dubious line. Although I don't play chess seriously
anymore I am fairly familiar with this opening. Many very strong
players avoided it in over the board play because many of the lines
are very unclear. However, back in the 1980s it was played with very
great success by the then world chess correspondence chess champion.
(Unfortunately I forget his name). I am not familiar with more recent
theory. However, I wouldn't write it off.


  #6   Report Post  
Old June 24th 04, 12:03 PM
Kave
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

Hi,

I'm not a good chess player but as i understand it, it reminds me
very much of the white side of King's Gambit. Fun to play but risky.
A lot of fight on f-file but this time black pawn declares war itself
instead of waiting to be eaten! I have a game by 2 for ever great players
Keres and Nezhmedinov which they drew. Maybe only computers these days dare
to play it ;-)

[Event "ch24"]
[Site "Moscow RUS"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[Round "20"]
[White "Keres, Paul Petrovich"]
[Black "Nezhmetdinov, Ra****"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C63"]
[EventDate "1957.??.??"]
[PlyCount "122"]
[Source "www.chesslib.no"]
[SourceDate "2003.06.15"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nd4 5. Bc4 d6 6. d3 Nf6
7. O-O Nxf3+ 8. Qxf3 f4 9. d4 c6 10. Qd3 g5 11. a4 Qb6
12. Rd1 Qxd4 13. Qxd4 exd4 14. Rxd4 Ng4 15. Be2 Ke7 16. a5 Bg7
17. Rd1 Be6 18. Na2 h5 19. Nb4 Ne5 20. Nd3 Nxd3 21. Bxd3 Be5
22. Ra4 b5 23. axb6 axb6 24. Rxa8 Rxa8 25. f3 b5 26. c3 Bb3
27. Re1 Bc4 28. Bxc4 bxc4 29. g3 Ra1 30. Kf2 Ra2 31. Re2 Kf6
32. Rc2 Ra1 33. Kg2 h4 34. gxh4 gxh4 35. Kh3 Kg5 36. Rg2+ Kh5
37. Rg1 Rb1 38. Rd1 Bg7 39. Rg1 Bh6 40. Kg2 Bg5 41. Rd1 Be7
42. Kf2 Bd8 43. Ke2 Bb6 44. h3 Ba7 45. Bxf4 Rxb2+ 46. Rd2 Rxd2+
47. Kxd2 d5 48. Bd6 Bb6 49. Ke2 Ba5 50. Be5 Bb6 51. Bf6 Bc5
52. Bd8 Bd6 53. Ke3 Be5 54. Ba5 Kg5 55. Bd8+ Kh5 56. Ba5 Kg5
57. Bb4 Bf4+ 58. Kd4 Bg3 59. exd5 cxd5 60. Kxd5 Kf4 61. Kxc4 Kxf3
1/2-1/2


btw, i join the group.

regards,
kave
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Old July 7th 04, 10:15 PM
Jim Grieve
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

In the first game if Spasky had played 8.Nb4+ he could have taken the queen
right off the bat!!

Jim





On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:40:20 -0400, Michael Sayers wrote
(in message ) :

"Ray Gordon" wrote in message
.. .
It's a dubious line but very strong against an unprepared opponent. White
has nothing to fear if he studies the opening, however.


Here is a game between Spassky and Kholmov in that opening. Would you
have us believe that the reason Spassky didn't win, is that he never
studied the Schliemann variation of the Ruy Lopez?

[Event "Ch URS"]
[Site "Baku (Azerbaijan)"]
[Date "1961.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "B V Spassky"]
[Black "Kholmov Ratmir D"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "104"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7.
Nxc6 Qd5 8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Nb5 Nf6 12. O-O c6
13. Nc3 Bc5 14. d4 exd3 15. Re1+ Kf7 16. Be3 Bxe3 17. Rxe3 Rad8 18.
Qf3 Rhe8 19. Ne4 Qd4 20. Nxf6 Rxe3 21. fxe3 Qxf6 22. Kf2 Ke6 23. Qxf6+
gxf6 24. Ke1 Rg8 25. g3 Rg5 26. Rd1 Rh5 27. h4 Rf5 28. Rxd3 Rf3 29. g4
Rh3 30. h5 Rg3 31. Rb3 Rxg4 32. Rxb7 Rxc4 33. Rxh7 Rc2 34. h6 Rxb2 35.
Ra7 Rh2 36. h7 c5 37. a4 Kd5 38. Rf7 c4 39. a5 c3 40. Kd1 Kc4 41. a6
c2+ 42. Kc1 Kb3 43. Rb7+ Kc3 44. Rc7+ Kb3 45. a7 Rh1+ 46. Kd2 Rd1+ 47.
Ke2 Rd8 48. e4 Kb2 49. Rb7+ Kc3 50. Rb8 c1=Q 51. Rxd8 Qh1 52. Rc8+ Kb3
1/2-1/2

I am inclined to think that he HAD studied it, since there is a 1957
game in which he draws with it vs. Tal, and another 1957 game (vs.
Lehmann) which Spassky won:

[Event "URS-ch Tbilisi"]
[Site "URS-ch Tbilisi"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Mikhail N Tal"]
[Black "B V Spassky"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "62"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. exf5 Nd4 6. Nxe5 Bc5 7.
O-O O-O 8. Nf3 c6 9. Nxd4 Bxd4 10. Bd3 d5 11. Ne2 Be5 12. Ng3 Ne4 13.
Bxe4 dxe4 14. d3 exd3 15. Qxd3 Qxd3 16. cxd3 Bxg3 17. hxg3 Bxf5 18. d4
Rad8 19. Be3 Rd5 20. Rfc1 Rb5 21. b3 Rd8 22. Rc4 Rbd5 23. Rac1 Kf7 24.
Ra4 a6 25. Rc5 Bd3 26. Ra3 Rxc5 27. dxc5 Bb5 28. b4 Rd1+ 29. Kh2 Bc4
30. Bf4 Rf1 31. Be3 1/2-1/2

[Event "Wien-Baden"]
[Site "Wien-Baden"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "H Lehmann"]
[Black "B V Spassky"]
[ECO "C63"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "46"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nd4 5. Ba4 Nf6 6. O-O Bc5 7. Nxe5
O-O 8. Nd3 fxe4 9. Nxc5 d5 10. Bb3 Kh8 11. Bxd5 Nxd5 12. N5xe4 Nb4 13.
d3 Nbxc2 14. Bg5 Qd7 15. Rc1 Nb4 16. Qa4 Qxa4 17. Nxa4 Ne2+ 18. Kh1
Nxc1 19. Rxc1 Nxd3 20. Rxc7 Nxf2+ 21. Nxf2 Rxf2 22. Kg1 Re2 23. Bf4
Re4 0-1


Regards,
Michael Sayers




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  #8   Report Post  
Old July 8th 04, 12:35 AM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defence [ECO C63]

Jim Grieve wrote:

In the first game if Spasky had played 8.Nb4+ he could have taken the queen
right off the bat!!


8. Nb4+ is met by 8...Qxb5.

Claus-Juergen
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