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Old July 21st 04, 12:42 PM
sathyashrayan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

Thanks for those who has helped my first game (refer Subject:Whay I am
lost?. Plz help
Date:16 Jul 2004 09:48:49 0700 in google archives).
Another great lost but this time I was crushed like a fly.
Copy paste as pgn.

[Event "Adyar times, Chennai, India"]
[Site "chennai"]
[Date "2004.07.18"]
[Round "4"]
[White "N.Sathyashrayan"]
[Black "Karthik.j"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B00"]



1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.} exd6 5.
c4 Nf6 6. Bd3 d5 7. c5 {
Thought the B on f8 is week. But the things goes on other way} Be7
8. Ne2 O-O
9. O-O b6 10. b4 {F**K me by my self for playing a very bad
chess.Simple 10.
cxb6 will just open the a file for black rook.} a5 11. bxa5 (11. cxb6
axb4 12.
bxc7 Qxc7 $32) 11... bxc5 12. Qc2 c4 13. Bf5 Rxa5 14. Bd2 Ra6 15. Nbc3
{
During the game i thought that d5 pawn is hanging but the game
proved that
it is not.} Nc6 16. Bg5 Nb4 17. Qb1 Rb6 18. Bc2 Ng4 19. Bxh7+ Kh8 20.
Bxe7
Qxe7 21. Bc2 Nd3 22. Qd1 Qh4 23. h3 Ngxf2 24. Rxf2 Qxf2+ 25. Kh2 Rh6 {
Now my doubt is. Am I played the opening wrongly. Because if i open
the A
file for black rook, it is loosing for white(look move 10).} 0-1

Thanks
N.Sathyashrayan
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Old July 23rd 04, 09:50 AM
Brian Kerr
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}


Not such a bad move, but the modern main line is Nf3. Develop your pieces
and let your opponent trade pawns in the center.

exd6 5.
c4 Nf6 6. Bd3 d5 7. c5 {
Thought the B on f8 is week. But the things goes on other way}


Take the pawn! That's why you move the c pawn out, to control the center,
to fight for d5, and you push it? NO! IMHO this led to your untimely
demise. So next time you get here, play 7. cxd5! and you might have a very
different result.

HTH,
Brian


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Old July 29th 04, 01:26 AM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

En/na Brian Kerr ha escrit:
1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}



Not such a bad move, but the modern main line is Nf3. Develop your pieces
and let your opponent trade pawns in the center.


Not exactly, .... the "most modern" main line is 4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 with
some problems to solve for black. A critical line is:
4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 cxd6 6.Be3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Rc1 0-0 9.b3

AT (Alekhine Defence player)

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Old July 29th 04, 11:09 PM
Mike Ogush
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

On 21 Jul 2004 04:42:51 -0700,
(sathyashrayan) wrote:

Thanks for those who has helped my first game (refer Subject:Whay I am
lost?. Plz help
Date:16 Jul 2004 09:48:49 0700 in google archives).
Another great lost but this time I was crushed like a fly.
Copy paste as pgn.

[Event "Adyar times, Chennai, India"]
[Site "chennai"]
[Date "2004.07.18"]
[Round "4"]
[White "N.Sathyashrayan"]
[Black "Karthik.j"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B00"]



1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}


No this is not correct. If White wants to exchange on d6 then he must
play 4.c4 first and then after 4...Nb6 5.exd6 we reach the Exchange
variation, which as Antonio points out in another messgae in this
thread poses some problems for Black. [Aside: This is the line that
John Emms recommends in his repertoire book "Attacking with 1.e4".

Other variations in the Alekhine allow Black to exchange at e5:
* 4.Nf3 is the modern variation. Black does not usually take at e5
right away preferring to develop with 4...Bg4 or prepare to
fianchettio the king's bishop with 4...g6.
* 4.c4 Nb6 5.f4 is the four pawns attack in which White sets up a
strong center and Black tries to show that White's center is
overextended.

exd6 5.
c4 Nf6


Now that the knight is back at f6 Black has achieved an equal game.

6. Bd3 d5 7. c5 {


This a minor mistake in that it gives up all hope of influencing the
d5-square and sets up Black's future undermining of White's center
with ...b6. Better was simply developing with 7.Nf3

Thought the B on f8 is week. But the things goes on other way} Be7
8. Ne2 O-O
9. O-O b6 10. b4 {F**K me by my self for playing a very bad
chess.Simple 10.
cxb6 will just open the a file for black rook.}


The problem with 10.b4 is that at best White is going to end up giving
Black two open files to play on. As you point out 10.cxb6 opens the
a-file for Black's rook. So better is protecting c5 the other way:
10.Be3 Bxc5 11.dxc5 Nbd7 12.b4 {now this move is OK because in
response to ...a5, white can play c6 threatening the knight with gain
of tempo and then b5.} White is still holding on to equality.

a5 11. bxa5 (11. cxb6
axb4 12.
bxc7 Qxc7 $32) 11... bxc5 12. Qc2


It is a mistake to allow Black to play ...c4. The best move given the
situation is 12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Nbc3. In this position Black has the
advantage becuause of White's weak a-pawns, but allowing ...c4 gives
Black an advantage that is amost a won game.

c4 13. Bf5 Rxa5


Black had the stronger 13...c5 14.Bxc8 Qxc8 15.Be3 Nc6 16.dxc5 Rxa5
17.Rd1 Bxc5 18.Bxc5 Rxc5 19.NBc3 Qg4 and Black is winning because of
the mobile, connected, passed pawns.

14. Bd2 Ra6 15. Nbc3
{
During the game i thought that d5 pawn is hanging but the game
proved that
it is not.} Nc6 16. Bg5 Nb4 17. Qb1 Rb6


This move still maintains Black's advantage, but even better was
17...Bxf5 18.Qxf5 c5. If white tries 19.a3 Black has the pleasant
choice between 19...cxd4 20.axb4 Rxa1 21.Rxa1 dxc3 22.Nxc3 d4 23.Rd1
d3 -/+ {white will have a hard time stoping the c- and d-pawns} or
19...Nd3 20.Bxf6 Bxf6 21.Qxd5 Qxd5 22.Nxd5 Bxd4 {attacking the
f2-square} 23.Ra2 Rd8 24.Ndc3 -/+ {White will have a hard time
defending the endgame}

18. Bc2 Ng4 19. Bxh7+ Kh8 20.
Bxe7
Qxe7 21. Bc2 Nd3 22. Qd1 Qh4 23. h3 Ngxf2 24. Rxf2 Qxf2+ 25. Kh2 Rh6 {
Now my doubt is. Am I played the opening wrongly. Because if i open
the A
file for black rook, it is loosing for white(look move 10).} 0-1

Thanks
N.Sathyashrayan


Playing the opening incorrectly (4.exd6) allowed Black to equalize
easily. 7.c5 relieved the remaining pressure White had in the center.
Finally 10.b4 transitioned to a position where White was trying to
fight back to equality. I don't know if your 10th move is THE losing
move, but it definitely made White's job much harder.

I noticed a pattern in the game above. There were several points when
there was a choice between exchanging pawns and allowing
Black the option of exchanging. At these points you consistly made
the wrong choice. You may want to study positions in your own and
other games where one side is faced with a similar choice between
exchanging and different ways of allowing his a opponent to exchange.
Study these types of positions until you can accurately evaluate the
consequences of the change in pawns structure and piece placement and
choose more accurately. It might be helpful to get a strong player or
even a chess coach to help you build this ability.

Mike Ogush
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Old July 30th 04, 12:07 AM
Antonio Torrecillas
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

Hello Mike, Brian, ...

En/na Mike Ogush ha escrit:
[White "N.Sathyashrayan"]
[Black "Karthik.j"]

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}


No this is not correct. If White wants to exchange on d6 then he must
play 4.c4 first and then after 4...Nb6 5.exd6 we reach the Exchange
variation, which as Antonio points out in another messgae in this
thread poses some problems for Black. [Aside: This is the line that
John Emms recommends in his repertoire book "Attacking with 1.e4".

Other variations in the Alekhine allow Black to exchange at e5:
* 4.Nf3 is the modern variation. Black does not usually take at e5
right away preferring to develop with 4...Bg4 or prepare to
fianchettio the king's bishop with 4...g6.
* 4.c4 Nb6 5.f4 is the four pawns attack in which White sets up a
strong center and Black tries to show that White's center is
overextended.


En/na Antonio Torrecillas ha escrit:
En/na Brian Kerr ha escrit:

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}


Not such a bad move, but the modern main line is Nf3. Develop your
pieces and let your opponent trade pawns in the center.


Not exactly, .... the "most modern" main line is 4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 with
some problems to solve for black. A critical line is:
4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 cxd6 6.Be3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Rc1 0-0 9.b3

AT (Alekhine Defence player)


Chess openings have been growing in more than hundred years. Advices
like Brian's "Develop your pieces and let your opponent trade pawns in
the center" are good for beginners but in modern practice there are a
lot of examples very difficult to understand. Let's have a look at one
of main lines in Alekhine: 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6
cxd6 6.Be3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Rc1 0-0 9.b3 ... in this line white don't
follow some general principes like:
- In the 5 first moves white moves a pawn 4 times. (in "4 pawns" line
there are sometimes 6 of 7 pawn moves)
- White develops first queen wing and kings wing pieces are in his
origin squares.
- Specially two last moves (8.Rc1 and 9.b3) are difficult to justify
(only some tactikal lines can helps us to understand).

I have been playing Alekhine Defence in the last 25 years and only in
last times I discovered this line and from some games (I think I could
not invent such a line in hundred years for myself).

Another strange line is 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 de5 5.Ne5 Nd7
which is hard to justify in general principes.

...............

As an answer for original post: "1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6"
is not incorrect from general principes but there are other logical
moves here as Mike wrote which can be better.

Maybe the best idea to understand why this 4.exd6 is not specially good
here (nor bad) is that after 4.c4 Nb6 one strategical problem for black
is to bring his Nb6 to play. This problem has given many points to white
and in other games has been solved safely.

Playing 4.exd6 cxd6 5.c4 as in the game allows black to avoid that problem.

AT



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Old July 30th 04, 12:11 PM
Brian Kerr
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why I lost #2 plz help

"Antonio Torrecillas" wrote in message
...
En/na Brian Kerr ha escrit:
1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 {
Is this correct?. I am I allowing the f6 square for the black
Knight.}



Not such a bad move, but the modern main line is Nf3. Develop your

pieces
and let your opponent trade pawns in the center.


Not exactly, .... the "most modern" main line is 4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 with
some problems to solve for black. A critical line is:
4.c4 Nb6 5.exd6 cxd6 6.Be3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Rc1 0-0 9.b3

AT (Alekhine Defence player)


A funny thing, I play 4. c4 as white all the time, yet I failed to mention
it here! Thanks Antonio!
Brian


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