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Old August 18th 03, 02:18 AM
Hans Meier
 
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Default please explain

r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/2P1p2q/3PN3/3BP1Pb/PP1Q3P/R4RK1 w kq

The best move in this position is probably d5, but I don't understand why.
Please explain what's the idea behind d5. It must be something positional
because it loses a rook for bishop.

thanks


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Old August 18th 03, 04:45 AM
Fernando
 
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"Hans Meier" schreef in bericht
...
r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/2P1p2q/3PN3/3BP1Pb/PP1Q3P/R4RK1 w kq

The best move in this position is probably d5, but I don't understand why.
Please explain what's the idea behind d5. It must be something positional
because it loses a rook for bishop.

thanks



.... Rd8 might work as a reply to d5.

1.d5 f5 (worse is Bxf1) will lead to a line where black is tied up. Queen
locked on Kingside and rooks forced to watch over the advanced d-pawn.
White's Queen just has a free reign.

Best regards,
Fernando



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Old August 18th 03, 10:12 AM
sathyashrayan
 
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"Hans Meier" wrote in message ...
r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/2P1p2q/3PN3/3BP1Pb/PP1Q3P/R4RK1 w kq

The best move in this position is probably d5, but I don't understand why.
Please explain what's the idea behind d5. It must be something positional
because it loses a rook for bishop.

thanks


Very interesting position. But playing d5 by white will gain only
equality but nothing else as mentioned below.

1.d5 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 Rd8 3.Qb4 [ But not 3.dxc6 bxc6 4.Rf6 Bxc5 5.Rxc6 Be7
6.Rc7 a6 7.Kg2 Qh6 8.Qc3 Qb6 9.Qxe5 0-0 Once Black O-O the rook on h8
will come to the game. 10.Bc2 Rc8-+] 3...Rxd5 4.Qxb7 Rxd3 5.Qxc6+ Ke7
6.Nd6 f6 7.Qb7+ Ke6 Followed by Qc8+ with a equal position (continuous
checks).

If 1.d5 f5 2.dxc6 bxc6 (if 2. ..fxe4 cxb7 +- for white)3.Rad1 can be
playable.


1.Qd1 will be a good move. Black exchanges the queen and easy the
center pressure by exchanging the e pawns. The other possibility of
playing Rf2 with the idea of doubling the rook on F file will not give
better chance for white since black can avoid exchanging the B if
white plays Bf1 after moving the rook. (1.Rf2 exd4 2.exd4 O-O-O 3.Bf1
Be6. Blacks f7 weakness can be avoided by playing f6 at any time.
White will have the d4 pawn week).

There are better move available rather than playing d5.

Others will have some more comments too since this position is a good
one.

Thanks
N.Sathyashrayan
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Old August 18th 03, 12:44 PM
Damir Ulovec
 
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Default please explain

I, as average player will play something with attacked rook, or, if knight
protected, Be2.
I don't see that far, but Fritz can... He "says" it's a mistake and after d5
black is clearly better.

Analysis by Fritz 7 (Depth:12/41):

1. (+0.28): 1.Bc4 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 f5 3.Nd6+ Bxd6 4.cxd6 f4 5.dxe5 Qxe5 6.gxf4 Qf5
2. (0.00): 1.Rf2 0-0-0 2.Qa5 exd4 3.Qxa7 dxe3 4.Qa8+ Kc7 5.Qa5+ Kc8
3. (0.00): 1.Rfe1 0-0-0 2.Qa5 exd4 3.Qxa7 Qf3 4.Qa8+ Kc7 5.Qa5+ Kc8
4. (-0.22): 1.Qd1 Qh6 2.Re1 exd4 3.exd4 0-0-0 4.Qa4 Kb8 5.Rad1 Bg4
5. (-0.19): 1.Rfd1 Rd8 2.Be2 Qh6 3.Bc4 f5 4.Nc3 exd4
6. (-0.22): 1.Rfc1 Be6 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Nd6+ Bxd6 4.cxd6 exd4 5.Qxd4 0-0 6.Qb4
7. (-0.28): 1.Qb4 0-0-0 2.Rf2 exd4 3.exd4 Qd5 4.Rd1 Be6 5.Qa5 Qxa2 6.Qxa2 Bxa2
7.b4
8. (-0.31): 1.Rf6 0-0-0 2.Be2 Bg4 3.Bxg4+ Qxg4 4.Nd6+ Bxd6
9. (-0.66): 1.Qc3 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 exd4 3.Qb3 Qd5 4.Qxb7 Rd8 5.Re1 Be7 6.Qxa7
10. (-0.66): 1.Qc2 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 exd4 3.Qb3 Qd5 4.Qxb7 Rd8 5.Re1 Be7 6.Qxa7
11. (-0.69): 1.Rfb1 0-0-0 2.Be2 Qg6 3.Nf2 Bf5 4.Rc1
--------------------
12. (-0.72): 1.d5 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 Rd8 3.Qa5 Qh6 4.Kh1 Rxd5
--------------------
13. (-0.78): 1.dxe5 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 Qxe5 3.Rf5 Qxf5 4.Nd6+ Bxd6 5.Bxf5
14. (-0.78): 1.Nd6+ Bxd6 2.cxd6 Bxf1 3.Rxf1 exd4 4.Rf5 Qh6 5.Re5+ Kf8 6.Qb4 Kg8
7.d7 Rf8 8.Qxd4
15. (-0.78): 1.Qa5

After played 1. Bc4 Bxf1, and new analysis (again 12 ply ahead), white is
clearly better with 2. Rxf1 (+0.69) which means nothing (may be a winning move,
or a draw). Here is 2. Rxf1 only correct move, because all other moves favorites
black.

Analysis by Fritz 7 (Depth:12/50):

1. (+0.69): 2.Rxf1 f5 3.Qa5 Kd7 4.Nd6 Qg5 5.Qd2 exd4 6.Qxd4 Bxd6
2. (-1.59): 2.Bxf1 exd4 3.exd4 0-0-0 4.b4 Qd5 5.Bh3+ f5 6.Nc3 Qd7 7.Ne4
3. (-1.72): 2.Kxf1 Qf3+ 3.Nf2 0-0-0 4.b4 exd4 5.exd4 Be7 6.Rd1 Bf6 7.d5 Bc3
4. (-2.09): 2.Nd6+ Bxd6 3.Rxf1 Be7 4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Rxf7 Kxf7 6.Qd3 exd4
5. (-3.50): 2.Bxf7+ Qxf7 3.Rxf1 Qd7 4.Qe2 exd4 5.Qh5+ Kd8 6.Rd1 Qe6 7.Qf3
6. (-4.06): 2.Qb4 Bxc4 3.Qxb7 Rd8 4.Qxc6+ Ke7 5.Nd6 Be6 6.Re1
7. (-4.31): 2.Nf6+ gxf6 3.Rxf1 0-0-0 4.b4 f5 5.Qd1 Qg5 6.Qd3 Bh6 7.Kg2
8. (-4.62): 2.Bb3 Bh3 3.Nf2 Bf5 4.Qa5 Qg5 5.dxe5 Be7 6.Qc3
9. (-4.94): 2.Qc3 Bxc4 3.Qxc4 Rd8 4.Re1 Be7 5.Qb4 Qf5 6.Nf2 b6 7.Qa4
10. (-4.94): 2.Qc1 Bxc4 3.Qxc4 Rd8 4.Re1 Be7 5.Qb4 Qf5 6.Nf2 b6 7.Qa4
11. (-4.94): 2.Qc2 Bxc4 3.Qxc4 Rd8 4.Re1 Be7 5.Qb4 Qf5 6.Nf2 b6 7.Qa4
12. (-5.09): 2.b3 Bxc4 3.bxc4 Rd8 4.Rb1 Rd7 5.Qe1 f5 6.Nf2 e4
13. (-5.16): 2.Bd3 Bxd3 3.Qxd3 0-0-0 4.Rf1 exd4 5.exd4 Qd5 6.Rd1 Qxa2 7.b4 Qd5
8.Qf3
14. (-5.19): 2.Rc1 Bxc4 3.Rxc4 Rd8 4.Qe1 f5 5.Nc3 e4 6.Ra4 a6 7.Qe2 Qg5
15. (-5.19): 2.Be6 Ba6 3.Bb3 Qg6 4.Bc2 f5 5.Nd6+ Bxd6 6.cxd6 Qxd6 7.Bxf5

I hope this will help... )

"Hans Meier" wrote in message
...
r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/2P1p2q/3PN3/3BP1Pb/PP1Q3P/R4RK1 w kq

The best move in this position is probably d5, but I don't understand why.
Please explain what's the idea behind d5. It must be something positional
because it loses a rook for bishop.

thanks



  #5   Report Post  
Old August 18th 03, 12:57 PM
Hans Meier
 
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Default please explain

f6 after 1. d5 Bxf1 2. Rxf1 seams to be bad, because it allows Rxf6

1.Qd1 will be a good move. Black exchanges the queen and easy the
center pressure by exchanging the e pawns. The other possibility of
playing Rf2 with the idea of doubling the rook on F file will not give
better chance for white since black can avoid exchanging the B if
white plays Bf1 after moving the rook. (1.Rf2 exd4 2.exd4 O-O-O 3.Bf1
Be6. Blacks f7 weakness can be avoided by playing f6 at any time.
White will have the d4 pawn week).





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Old August 18th 03, 01:07 PM
Hans Meier
 
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Default please explain

1... f5 isn't that good, because of
2. dxc6 bxc6 3. Rad1 fxe4 4. Bxe4 Bxc5 5. Qc3!! and black loses

1.d5 f5 (worse is Bxf1) will lead to a line where black is tied up. Queen
locked on Kingside and rooks forced to watch over the advanced d-pawn.
White's Queen just has a free reign.

Best regards,
Fernando





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Old August 18th 03, 03:53 PM
Damir Ulovec
 
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Default please explain

1. ... f5 2. dxc6 bxc6 3. Rad1 fxe4? {3. ... Rd8}
1. ... Rd8 2. dxc6 bxc6 (-0.19)

"Hans Meier" wrote in message
...
1... f5 isn't that good, because of
2. dxc6 bxc6 3. Rad1 fxe4 4. Bxe4 Bxc5 5. Qc3!! and black loses

1.d5 f5 (worse is Bxf1) will lead to a line where black is tied up. Queen
locked on Kingside and rooks forced to watch over the advanced d-pawn.
White's Queen just has a free reign.

Best regards,
Fernando







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Old August 18th 03, 03:53 PM
Damir Ulovec
 
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Sorry, I can't help you by myself... :-)
1. d5 Bxf1 2. Rxf1 f6 (+1.47) with 3. dxc6 bxc6 4. Rxf6 ...

"Hans Meier" wrote in message
...
f6 after 1. d5 Bxf1 2. Rxf1 seams to be bad, because it allows Rxf6




  #9   Report Post  
Old August 18th 03, 03:53 PM
Damir Ulovec
 
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Default please explain

Yes, after 3. d6 and (now I was waiting 'till)14 ply, Fritz said +1.66 with move
3. ... f5 as best response for black (4. Be2 Qg6). This is totaly different
situation.

But I didn't ask: what color you prefer? Is it important here for white to win,
or for black? I think it's black, but I'm not 100% sure.

"Hans Meier" wrote in message
...
12. (-0.72): 1.d5 Bxf1 2.Rxf1 Rd8 3.Qa5 Qh6 4.Kh1 Rxd5

What is Fritz's score after 3. d6 which is better than 3. Qa5.
My program (a very strong one) says: +1.78





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Old August 18th 03, 04:45 PM
Hans Meier
 
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Default please explain

3. ... Rd8
follows 4. dxc7 5. fxe4 cxb7
and white is in advance


1. ... f5 2. dxc6 bxc6 3. Rad1 fxe4? {3. ... Rd8}
1. ... Rd8 2. dxc6 bxc6 (-0.19)



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