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Old October 30th 06, 08:19 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub Game Development Stopped due to Money

Now, I am feeling uncertain about the GetClub Game Development. It is
taking lot of money, While the response of players was not so good as
was predicted 6 months back. We need atleast $100- $200/month to keep
improving the Game.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Now, we will not invest our Time and Money in Developing this Chess
game further. As we are not getting back what we are investing. We are
loosing our Fresh Money that we earned by hard work.

However if any of the Rich Player want the Game to Progress and play
good enough, their support is appriciated.

We are looking for support from the Players. You just need to buy Games
from site.

Purchase More Games at:
http://www.getclub.com/Secured/Purch...php?Game=10.00

If we collect atleast $100- $200 / month we can Sustain the GetClub
Chess with further improvements. It is very difficult to improve the
Game without getting Money back.

If you want further Improvements in GetClub Chess Game, buy our Games
that will help us improve this game.

Purchase Chess Games at:
http://www.getclub.com/Secured/Purch...php?Game=10.00

Currently the game plays good enough to be played as a free Game. But
further improvements can come only when we get back enough Money for
further Improvements.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old October 30th 06, 11:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub Game Development Stopped due to Money


Currently the game plays good enough to be played as a free Game. But
further improvements can come only when we get back enough Money for
further Improvements.




However Today a bit of improvement was done. So you will find a bit
faster and better Game Play.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html (Faster Game)

But further Improvents are Stopped till Lots of people Start Playing
and we get enough income to fund Improvements.

Bye
Sanny


Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old October 30th 06, 02:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 446
Default GetClub Game Development Stopped due to Money

Sanny wrote:
Now, I am feeling uncertain about the GetClub Game Development. It is
taking lot of money, While the response of players was not so good as
was predicted 6 months back. We need atleast $100- $200/month to keep
improving the Game.


That's cheap !!! You have often posted mentioning a "team of
programmers". Where do you get a team of programmers for $100-200 /
month? I would have thought that would be the rate of one competent
programmer for 1 day - not a team for a month.

Now, we will not invest our Time and Money in Developing this Chess
game further.


Does that mean an end to the spam too?

Purchase More Games at:
http://www.getclub.com/Secured/Purch...php?Game=10.00


Well, perhaps this will be the last post with all the spam - we can but
hope!



--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Old October 30th 06, 11:58 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 421
Default GetClub Game Development Stopped due to Money

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
Sanny wrote:
Now, I am feeling uncertain about the GetClub Game Development.


At least several writers in rec.games.chess.* have offered some
good advice to Sanny about how to improve his chess engine.
Sanny has 'responded' by ignoring their advice and sometimes
also by insulting them.

It is taking lot of money, While the response of players was
not so good as was predicted 6 months back.


Who, other than Sanny, predicted that?

I *emphatically* told Sanny that his chess engine was
the worst that I have ever seen, and I expected that it
would be a commercial failure.

We need at least $100- $200/month to keep
improving the Game.


Why is there any need 'to keep improving the Game'?
Has not Sanny proclaimed many times that 'all problems
have been rectified now'?

That's cheap !!! You have often posted mentioning a "team of
programmers". Where do you get a team of programmers for $100-200 /
month? I would have thought that would be the rate of one competent
programmer for 1 day - not a team for a month.


If you were a competent computer programmer, then
would be desperate or foolish enough to work for Sanny?

--Nick

Now, we will not invest our Time and Money in Developing
this Chess game further.


Does that mean an end to the spam too?

Purchase More Games at:
http://www.getclub.com/Secured/Purch...php?Game=10.00


Well, perhaps this will be the last post with all the spam - we can but
hope!
--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


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Old October 31st 06, 05:42 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default GetClub Game Development Stopped due to Money


Sanny wrote:
Currently the game plays good enough to be played as a free Game. But
further improvements can come only when we get back enough Money for
further Improvements.


However Today a bit of improvement was done. So you will find a bit
faster and better Game Play.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html (Faster Game)

But further Improvents are Stopped till Lots of people Start Playing
and we get enough income to fund Improvements.



Sanny, the fastest way to increase your monetary intake
would be to focus on improving the speed -- not the depth --
of your program's responses. I have noticed that the
displayed depth (assumming this is not merely a ploy)
has improved dramatically, which would seem to indicate
an improvement in strength of play. But what you really
need to do *first* is get the response times on the lower
levels down to under a minute per move, so players are
not discouraged by the slowness of play. It's okay for the
highest level(s) to take a long time for each move, but at
least on the Beginner level a player ought to be able to
play a game without switching to another browser to kill
some time while waiting for the program to move in the
middlegame.

Another area which needs improvement is the handling
of drawn games.

You might try steering traffic to your Web site by an
exchange of advertisements. For example, in exchange
for a small ad for another Web site on yours, someone
might be willing to place a small ad for yours, on theirs.
Just an idea.

Keep trying -- don't give up hope. (But remember, even
with gazillions of dollars and hoardes of programmers,
there is no way your program will ever be as good as I
am at chess.) ;D

-- help bot



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Old November 1st 06, 12:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default A Little Improvement Done.

Sanny, the fastest way to increase your monetary intake
would be to focus on improving the speed -- not the depth --


Yes The game Speed has been Improved as you Adviced.

It was easier earlier to improve the game earlier, Now it is very hard
to even get it better by a factor of 2.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Earlier Each Month GetClub Chess used to play twice faster.

But Now it takes 3 Months to make it twice Faster.

Now it is very hard even to understand how the Program is Thinking, So
it is very diffuclt to modify it further.

However if you want further Improvements, Just send me the Recorded
Game with Analysis of the Wrong Moves.

Here is how it Plays Now.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level: 10-20 Seconds
Easy Level: 30-40 Seconds
Normal Level: 1-2 Minutes

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old November 2nd 06, 05:56 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default A Little Improvement Done.


Sanny wrote:
Sanny, the fastest way to increase your monetary intake
would be to focus on improving the speed -- not the depth --


Yes The game Speed has been Improved as you Adviced.

It was easier earlier to improve the game earlier, Now it is very hard
to even get it better by a factor of 2.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Earlier Each Month GetClub Chess used to play twice faster.

But Now it takes 3 Months to make it twice Faster.

Now it is very hard even to understand how the Program is Thinking, So
it is very diffuclt to modify it further.

However if you want further Improvements, Just send me the Recorded
Game with Analysis of the Wrong Moves.

Here is how it Plays Now.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level: 10-20 Seconds
Easy Level: 30-40 Seconds
Normal Level: 1-2 Minutes



Well, that may be true for others, but on my computer
the program re-re-re-analyses positions such that a good
deal of time is wasted. It also takes much longer on
certain moves than others, but again, this could be a
problem on my end, not yours.

In my last few games, I noticed a disappearing,
incomplete game, which didn't bother me much since
these games are hardly world class anyway. I suspect
it happenned because I allowed too much time to elapse
before resuming. But my very last game was ended
abruptly, with my new game total showing that I had
lost! How I could lose is beyong my powers of
imagination, for I was very close to delivering checkmate
and had already won the computer's Queen for a Bishop.
At the time, I had another tab open and was reading in
it when the usual new browser window suddenly
appeared -- you know, the one where I get to replay all
my brilliant moves which led up to the win. Only this
time it was (I assume) a loss, yet all my windows were
frozen and I had to shut down and reboot. In any case,
anyone who plays the program on whatever level that
game was will get some extra rating points due to this
freak error.

-- help bot

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Old November 2nd 06, 09:23 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default A Little Improvement Done.

In my last few games, I noticed a disappearing,
incomplete game, which didn't bother me much since
these games are hardly world class anyway. I suspect


Chess game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

This happens when by mistake you Press "Resign Game" Button.

Or you have "Resign Game" button Selected and you Press any of the two
ENTER KEYS.

Never Press Resign Game Button as it means you want to Resign the Game
as you are loosing.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old November 2nd 06, 09:54 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default A Little Improvement Done.


Sanny wrote:
In my last few games, I noticed a disappearing,
incomplete game, which didn't bother me much since
these games are hardly world class anyway. I suspect


Chess game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

This happens when by mistake you Press "Resign Game" Button.

Or you have "Resign Game" button Selected and you Press any of the two
ENTER KEYS.

Never Press Resign Game Button as it means you want to Resign the Game
as you are loosing.



How is it possible to have the "resign game" button
*selected* when I am in another tab? And even if this
is possible, hitting "enter" in another tab should have
no effect in the GetClub tab, which is not the active
tab, but is merely running in the background.

A while back, we were advised to not have multiple
browsers open because this slows the program down
too much, so I started using a single (Firefox) browser,
utilizing the "tabs" feature to switch back and forth
when I hear the sound signalling that the program has
moved. I don't see much of a difference in speed, but
I suppose it is likely my computer's "resources" are
used more efficiently with tabs instead of multiple
browser instances.

BTW, a while back there was a complaint that your
site all too frequently pops up a new window whenever
it moves; the window I'm talking about is the player's
"home page", and it happens with my browser, too.
It's a bit scary, since there is a tendency to assume
the program has "detected" mate coming and is
resigning -- many moves in advance. Imagine the
feeling of defeating a chess program which can "see"
itself getting checkmated, say, ten or more moves
in advance via brute force. Very scary.

One thing I have noticed about GetClub is that,
unlike some programs, it does not grab your man
mid-air and decide for you where you are going to
put it down. This has been a problem for me in the
past, but Sanny's program lets *you* decide by
waiting for you to click on the destination square.
Obviously, the program could easily win far more
games if it were not programmed to let the players
decide regarding their own moves.

-- help bot

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Old November 2nd 06, 10:24 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 179
Default A Little Improvement Done.

On 1 Nov 2006 21:56:20 -0800, "help bot"
wrote:


Sanny wrote:
Sanny, the fastest way to increase your monetary intake
would be to focus on improving the speed -- not the depth --


Yes The game Speed has been Improved as you Adviced.

It was easier earlier to improve the game earlier, Now it is very hard
to even get it better by a factor of 2.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Earlier Each Month GetClub Chess used to play twice faster.

But Now it takes 3 Months to make it twice Faster.

Now it is very hard even to understand how the Program is Thinking, So
it is very diffuclt to modify it further.

However if you want further Improvements, Just send me the Recorded
Game with Analysis of the Wrong Moves.

Here is how it Plays Now.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Beginner Level: 10-20 Seconds
Easy Level: 30-40 Seconds
Normal Level: 1-2 Minutes



Well, that may be true for others, but on my computer
the program re-re-re-analyses positions such that a good
deal of time is wasted.


I've seen the number in the thinking output do funky things, too.
Without looking at the source, it's hard to say whether Sanny has a
bug in his search, or whether the program is merely giving incorrect
thinking output, or whether the number is something other than actual
search depth. The program doesn't product a lot of thinking output,
but it's understandable for a pay site not to give a player too much
info to work with.

It also takes much longer on
certain moves than others, but again, this could be a
problem on my end, not yours.


It's standard behavior for Sanny's program, from what I've seen. A
highly tactical position, or a position with several equally good
alternatives can cause a deep think. This is a result of not having a
proper time control.

It would be nice if Sanny got the time control to work correctly. It
seems to be the most common complaint about his program (not
necessarily from you, help bot, but in general), and it really would
make the playing experience more enjoyable. Plus, people might be more
willing to pay if they aren't getting frustrated by overly long
thinking times.

I made an earlier post recommending that Sanny look at the source of
the Java version of TCSP for an idea on implementing a time control so
that a program plays in exactly x number of seconds. I made the
recommendation because TSCP handles it in a simple way, and in only
about a dozen lines of code.

In Java/chess programming speak (help bot, you may want to skip this
paragraph, it's hellaciously geeky), TSCP puts the entire root search
in a try block, checks for a timeout every 1024 nodes (both in the
alpha/beta and quiescence search), throws an exception when a timeout
is reached, and plays the best move found so far when it catches the
exception, after taking back whatever moves that it made during the
search when it timed out. It might not be the most elegant way to do
things, but it works well enough.

Just to make it clear, it's not my intent to belittle Sanny and his
efforts. I know from personal experience how hard it is to write a
bug-free chess program, and how bugs can sap the strength of a
program. He's improved the quality of play over the last little
while, to the point where it plays reasonably well for a Java applet.
I'm a fan of all chess programs, big and small, and would just like to
see Sanny's program be exactly what he advertises it to be.

In my last few games, I noticed a disappearing,
incomplete game, which didn't bother me much since
these games are hardly world class anyway. I suspect
it happenned because I allowed too much time to elapse
before resuming. But my very last game was ended
abruptly, with my new game total showing that I had
lost! How I could lose is beyong my powers of
imagination, for I was very close to delivering checkmate
and had already won the computer's Queen for a Bishop.
At the time, I had another tab open and was reading in
it when the usual new browser window suddenly
appeared -- you know, the one where I get to replay all
my brilliant moves which led up to the win. Only this
time it was (I assume) a loss, yet all my windows were
frozen and I had to shut down and reboot. In any case,
anyone who plays the program on whatever level that
game was will get some extra rating points due to this
freak error.


I'll let Sanny handle that one, no idea what's going on there.

-- help bot


Tony
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