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Old November 6th 06, 02:30 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

This is the final post in this series. Enjoy!

http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/che...te-part-3.html

--
Thanks,
John
http://growwithchess.com/


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Old November 6th 06, 04:23 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

John Evans wrote:
This is the final post in this series. Enjoy!

http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/che...te-part-3.html

Your comment on conduct after games is interesting.

I'm surprised at the number of people on ICC that will not comment a
word (or perhaps just send 'gg') if they lose, but are different if they
win.

One opponent I can think of has beat me 5 or 6x, with a couple of draws.
Each time he was willing to discuss the game. On the one occasion I
beat him, he logs out immediately. After sending a tell, I get from ICC
"xxxxx is not logged in". Seems as soon as he loses, he logs out, with
no comment.

I've noticed this quite a bit - not just with him, but many seem to log
out as soon as they lose, but are happy to discuss the game if they win.

I tend to play long games (45 0, 60 0 or something like that), so if
someone spends over an hour playing a game, a couple of minutes
discussing the game would not seem excessive. Win, lose or draw, I'm
sure we can all gain from discussing the game with our opponent.

Of course, there are exceptions. The other day as white, I beat someone
who played the Caro-Kann, which is an opening I don't know at all. I
made a pretty poor 5th move.

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Qd3?

It was useful for him to tell me that 5.Qd3 was not a book move at all.
I later looked it up and realised 5.Ng3 would have been much better than
5.Qd3.

The game is below. I did win, but mainly my opponent blundered a knight
at 21...Nf3+, as it was quite difficult for me to escape the effects of
my horrible 5th move.

But I think we can often gain by a few words discussing the game. On a
chess server, unlike in a playing room for OTB chess, you don't disturb
anyone else by discussing the game immediatly afterwards.

[Event "ICC 45 45"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2006.11.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "g8wrb"]
[Black "Traho"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1360"]
[BlackElo "1338"]
[ECO "B18"]
[ICCResult "Black resigns"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann: classical variation"]
[NIC "CK.10"]
[Time "10:01:51"]
[GameType "ICCStandard"]
[TimeControl "2700+45"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Qd3 e6 6.a3 Nd7 7.Be2 h6 8.Bf4
Qb6 9.b4
O-O-O 10.Bf3 Ndf6 11.Ne2 Ne7 12.c4 Ng6 13.Bg3 e5 14.c5 Qc7 15.Qe3 Bxe4
16.Bxe4 Nxe4 17.Qxe4 Re8 18.O-O Qe7 19.dxe5 Nxe5 20.Rfe1 g5 21.Nd4 Nf3+
22.gxf3 Qxe4 23.Rxe4 Rxe4 24.fxe4 Bg7 25.e5 f5 26.Nxf5 Bf8 27.e6 Rh7
28.Re1 1-0

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

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Old November 6th 06, 05:49 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3


I'm surprised at the number of people on ICC that will not comment a
word (or perhaps just send 'gg') if they lose, but are different if they
win.

I always send 'Thanks for the game'. I rarely send gg after a game,
because if I lost it was hardly a good game for me and if I won
then it wasnt for my opponent...

I have spent some time talking after games but not much, and I often
just log off because I want to run the game through Fritz8 to see where
I went wrong while the game is still fresh in my head


[White "g8wrb"]


ahh so thats you I played you the other day and lost :/.... Ive
pretty
much given up on the Petroff defense since then. Going with a defense
thats a little more aggressive now

J.Lohner
ICC 'Inconnux'

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Old November 6th 06, 11:16 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

"Inconnux" wrote in message
oups.com...
I always send 'Thanks for the game'. I rarely send gg after a game,
because if I lost it was hardly a good game for me and if I won
then it wasnt for my opponent...


A loss can still be a good game, usually if you give a much stronger
opponent a run for their money :-)

Michael


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Old November 6th 06, 11:23 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

"John Evans" wrote in message
...
This is the final post in this series. Enjoy!

http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/che...te-part-3.html


Hi John, I noticed your articles didn't talk about the actual board, is
there such a thing as a move in chess that is considered bad etiquette?

Michael




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Old November 6th 06, 12:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3


"Michael C" wrote in message
u...
"Inconnux" wrote in message
oups.com...
I always send 'Thanks for the game'. I rarely send gg after a game,
because if I lost it was hardly a good game for me and if I won
then it wasnt for my opponent...


A loss can still be a good game, usually if you give a much stronger
opponent a run for their money :-)

Michael


Exactly.


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Old November 6th 06, 03:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

Inconnux wrote:
I'm surprised at the number of people on ICC that will not comment a
word (or perhaps just send 'gg') if they lose, but are different if they
win.


I always send 'Thanks for the game'. I rarely send gg after a game,
because if I lost it was hardly a good game for me and if I won
then it wasnt for my opponent...


It seems to be an automatic response from a lot of people. I note there
is a discussion about this on the ICC web site.


http://www.chessclub.com/resources/a...2_queenie.html

I am sure a lot of people have a button set up that sends it
automatically. I would agree 'Thanks for the game' would seem a lot
better than 'gg'. I guess the latter has the advantage of *probably*
being known to some who don't speak English. It is so commonly used on
ICC that I suspect most non-English speaking individuals know what it
means.

I have spent some time talking after games but not much, and I often
just log off because I want to run the game through Fritz8 to see where
I went wrong while the game is still fresh in my head


I'd be interested in the views of stronger players in the logic of that.

I can't help feeling you would gain more by discussing then game, and
then later going through it was Fritz. If you discuss it with your
opponent, is it not keeping it fresh in your mind?

You have the opportunity to put it in Fritz a few minutes later, with
the benefit of your opponents views. I know your opponent is likely to
be much weaker than Fritz, but two views are often better than one.

In fact, I've been told to annotate the game on my own first, and then
later look at it with a chess engine - not to immediately put it in Fritz.



[White "g8wrb"]



ahh so thats you I played you the other day and lost :/....


I found the game! I've stuck my annotations below. All were done before
I stuck it in a chess engine (crafty 20.14). Where the annotations had
the benefit of computer analysis, I have marked them as such.

I think you gave away a few pawns for no good reason, which is why you
lost. I guess fritz will tell you those sort of blunders well, but I
doubt it is as useful at detecting positional errors.

Ive
pretty
much given up on the Petroff defense since then. Going with a defense
thats a little more aggressive now


I've rarely if ever played that, and have not faced it too often, so
don't know the book lines. Some times odd openings can get me in a mess,
but that one did not present me any great difficulties. But a quick
search on the web shows there are some sharp lines.

J.Lohner
ICC 'Inconnux'


Here's the game, with my comments.

[Event "ICC 45 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2006.10.29"]
[Round "-"]
[White "g8wrb"]
[Black "Inconnux"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1277"]
[BlackElo "1287"]
[ECO "C47"]
[ICCResult "Black resigns"]
[Opening "Giuoco Piano: four knights variation"]
[NIC "RG.01"]
[Time "19:31:17"]
[GameType "ICCStandard"]
[TimeControl "2700+0"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 {Petroff's Defence - one I don't know at all well. } 3.Nc3
Nc6 {Now into the Four Knight's game} 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.O-O d6 6.Re1 O-O 7.h3
{It may
have been wiser to play this a move earlier, since ...Bg4 pinning the knight
can often make things difficult. It either ties the queen down to
defending the
knight, or accepting doubled f-pawns and the g-pawn missing - not a
great idea
for king safety. } 7...a6 8.d3 b5 9.Bb3 Bb7 10.a3 {With a view to prevening
....b4 and my knight being chassed around. } 10...Nh5 11.Rf1 Nf4 12.Bxf4 {
Perhaps not the best plan, to give my opponent the bishop pair, but it
weakens
his centre somewhat and gives him doublted pawns on the f-file. I'd hope to
exploit that weakend f-pawn later. } 12...exf4 13.Qd2 {Start to attack the
f-pawn, } 13...Nd4? {Fails to protect the f-pawn, so it gives me a free
pawn.

Computer +0.53} 14.Qxf4 Nxb3 15.cxb3 f6 16.Rfe1 b4 17.Ne2 {Computer +0.82}
17...bxa3? {Allows me to undouble my pawns, which are a weakness
especially in
the endgame. } 18.bxa3 {My pawn structure is now somewhat better than a
couple
of moves back.

Computer +1.09} 18...Bc8 19.Ned4 Bxd4 20.Nxd4 Bd7 21.Rec1 c5 22.Nf3 Bc8
23.d4
f5? {Loses another pawn

Computer +2.35} 24.dxc5 fxe4 25.Qxe4 Rb8 26.cxd6 Qxd6 27.b4? {Computer
analysis
shows this to be a poor move. I did it to prevent Rx33, not realising that
after 27.Ng5, Black could not capture the b-pawn, without being mated on the
next move. I never see that in the game, so advanced the b-pawn for its own
protection. } 27...Bf5 28.Qc4+ Be6 {After 29.Qc6 black has to exchange
queens,
or lose the a-pawn. Since I'm a couple of pawns up, exhanging queens is
to my
advantage. I then enter an endgame with a couple of extra pawns. }
29.Qc6 Qxc6
30.Rxc6 Bc8 31.Ne5 Rf6? {Allows a fruther exchange of material, which is
to my
advantage. That said, with two extra pawns, the endgame should be reasonably
easy anyway. } 32.Rxf6 gxf6 33.Nd3 Bb7 34.h4 h6 35.g3 Rd8 36.Nc5 Bc8
37.Kf1 Kf7
{We both try to bring the kings into action} 38.Ke2 Ke7 39.Ke3 Kd6 40.Kd4 {
Waling into a pin was probably not too sensible. } 40...Kc6+ 41.Ke3? {
Retreaking with the king is probably not best, but it does no obvious
damage}
41...Kb5 42.Kf4 Rd2? {After Ke4 forking rook and pawn on f6, this loses
another
pawn} 43.Ne4 Rd4 44.Ke3 Rd8 45.Nxf6 Rf8 46.Ne4 {I'm not being very
active with
my extra material. Should attack more. Black is attacking more than me,
yet I
am material up. } 46...Re8 47.f3 Bb7 48.Kd4 Rd8+ 49.Ke5 Re8+ 50.Kf5 Rd8
51.Kg6
Rd3 52.Kxh6 Bxe4 53.fxe4 Rxg3 54.Re1 Rxa3 {Black has won a pawn
somewhere along
this line, and I'm not sure exactly where. But I now have a passed pawn
with a
rook behind it, which will hard to stop. } 55.e5 Kxb4 56.e6 Rf3 57.e7
Rf6+ 58.
Kg7 {Black resigns} 1-0


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Old November 6th 06, 09:17 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3


[Event "ICC 45 0"]
[Event "ICC 45 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2006.10.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "g8wrb"]
[Black "Inconnux"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator ""]
[PlyCount ""]
[EventDate ""]

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nf6
3.Nc3 Nc6
4.Bc4 Bc5
5.O-O d6
6.Re1 O-O
7.h3 a6
8.d3 b5
9.Bb3 Bb7
10.a3 Nh5 dumb move, although I wanted a knight on f4 at the time, it
could have been
easily chased off or taken. I also gave away a pawn starting with this
move
11.Rf1 Nf4
12.Bxf4 exf4
13.Qd2 Nd4
14.Qxf4 Nxb3
15.cxb3 f6
16.Rfe1 b4
17.Ne2 bxa3 another pointless blunder, should have moved to a5
18.bxa3 Bc8
19.Ned4 Bxd4
20.Nxd4 Bd7
21.Rec1 c5
22.Nf3 Bc8
23.d4 f5
24.dxc5 fxe4
25.Qxe4 Rb8
26.cxd6 Qxd6
27.b4 Bf5
28.Qc4+ Be6
29.Qc6 Qxc6
30.Rxc6 Bc8
31.Ne5 Rf6
32.Rxf6 gxf6
33.Nd3 Bb7
34.h4 h6
35.g3 Rd8 At this point I was hoping that I could make up for previous
blunders with an
active bishop vs Knight with pawns on both sides of the board
36.Nc5 Bc8
37.Kf1 Kf7
38.Ke2 Ke7
39.Ke3 Kd6
40.Kd4 Kc6+
41.Ke3 Kb5
42.Kf4 Rd2
43.Ne4 Rd4
44.Ke3 Rd8 Should have resigned here
45.Nxf6 Rf8
46.Ne4 Re8
47.f3 Bb7
48.Kd4 Rd8+
49.Ke5 Re8+
50.Kf5 Rd8
51.Kg6 Rd3
52.Kxh6 Bxe4
53.fxe4 Rxg3
54.Re1 Rxa3
55.e5 Kxb4
56.e6 Rf3
57.e7 Rf6+
58.Kg7 {Black resigns}

Certainly not one of my better games Must have been the painkillers
that Im on
Atleast I didnt hang a major piece though...

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Old November 6th 06, 10:42 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

Inconnux wrote:

10.a3 Nh5 dumb move


I make too many of them.

17.Ne2 bxa3 another pointless blunder, should have moved to a5


Pointless blunders kill my game.

35.g3 Rd8 At this point I was hoping that I could make up for previous
blunders with an
active bishop vs Knight with pawns on both sides of the board


That does not always work out, as its often possible to keep pawns on
the opposite colour to the bishop. I think this is especially so where
there are several pawns (as here), since whilst you could stop one or
two advancing, with several it is hard to stop them all - I just move
into a square your bishop does not attack.

But I think with me having two extra pawns, and fewer pawn islands, it
would have been very difficult to you change the result.

Certainly not one of my better games


We will have to play again some time. Perhaps you can get your own back!

Must have been the painkillers
that Im on



Atleast I didnt hang a major piece though...


No, but a couple of pawns is usually enough to throw a game. Not always
I must admit, but usually. I have thrown aways bigger advantages before.


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Old November 7th 06, 12:00 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Chess Etiquette - Part 3

06.11.2006 12:23, Michael C:

Hi John, I noticed your articles didn't talk about the actual board, is
there such a thing as a move in chess that is considered bad etiquette?


1. h2-h4

Greetings,
Ralf
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