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Old November 13th 06, 09:56 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Hello All!!

Playing 1...d5 against 1.e4

Masters say that against 1.e4 if Black can play d5 later he can obtain
equal game.
e.g in Scotch game

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6
5. Bc4 d5!!


If playing d5 equalizes the game then why not play center counter 1.e4
d5 to obtain equality on first move.


With Warm regards
Jatinder Singh

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Old November 13th 06, 02:25 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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jsfromynr wrote:
Hello All!!

Playing 1...d5 against 1.e4

Masters say that against 1.e4 if Black can play d5 later he can obtain
equal game.
e.g in Scotch game

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6
5. Bc4 d5!!


If playing d5 equalizes the game then why not play center counter 1.e4
d5 to obtain equality on first move.


With Warm regards
Jatinder Singh


Such a broad statement is usually useless in chess.

The Center Counter Game or Scandinavian Defense dates from the 15th
century. It and the French Defense are the oldest asymmetrical
King-pawn openings. "A History of Chess", by H. J. Murray (1913)
reports that the Center Counter was first documented in a manuscript by
the Spanish author, Luis Ramires Lucena around 1435. This Center
Counter Game is one of the earliest recorded games.

Over the centuries, the Center Counter was often critisized because of
the (usually) early exposure of black's Queen and associated loss of
time in the opening phase of the game. As a result, to this day, the
defense is often condemned by analysts, and is taboo to many players.
However, there exists no clear refute to black's best play. Therefore,
its claim as a regular opening is recognized by strong players. For
example, this Center Counter opening gave black the win against a world
champion, and this game gave black good chances in a world championship
match.

The Center Counter is an immediate attempt by black to aggressively
cross white's opening plans. Black dictates the opening line of play
from the start. Therefore, white's opening preparation along other
lines is wasted. White must dance to black's tune. Thus, black often
scores a psychological mini-victory in the opening by playing the
Center Counter.

So, getting d5 in without compromising other aspects of black's
position may give black equality, but that is not the case with the
Scandanavian. Black has some worries and is usually behind in
development early.

But, it is a viable opening to play and white needs to be prepared for
it.

http://chess-training.blogspot.com

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Old November 13th 06, 02:28 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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ha scritto nel messaggio
ups.com...

However, there exists no clear refute to black's best play. Therefore,
its claim as a regular opening is recognized by strong players. For
example, this Center Counter opening gave black the win against a world
champion, and this game gave black good chances in a world championship
match.


Karpov - Larsen (I don't remember when) and Kasparov - Anand (New York
1995).

Luigi Caselli


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Old November 13th 06, 04:39 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Ron Ron is offline
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In article om,
"jsfromynr" wrote:

Masters say that against 1.e4 if Black can play d5 later he can obtain
equal game.


Not quite. The "rule of thumb" which, like all rules of thumbs, has lots
of exceptions is "In a 1.e4 e5 game, if black can play d5 without giving
white other compensation then he usually achieves an equal position."


e.g in Scotch game

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6
5. Bc4 d5!!


First of all, white's fifth move here is not close to best.

Secondly, I'm not at all convinced the position here is equal. 6.ed Nxd5
7.Nxc6 bc 8.0-0 and white still has a small advantage.


If playing d5 equalizes the game then why not play center counter 1.e4
d5 to obtain equality on first move.


In the main line scandiavian, black gives up a development and space
advantage for an extremely solid position - but while black's position
can be hard to crack, very few people would describe it as equal.

-Ron
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Old November 13th 06, 07:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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As in the commetry of the attached game... the scandinavian is a good
surprise against opponents who are not too much stronger than you. In
correspondence chess it is an absolute no-no. Black in general aims for a
type of Caro Kann position which then begs the question why not play the
Caro?

[Event "EM/MN/093"]
[Site "ICCF Correspondence"]
[Date "2005.10.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Wharrier, Jo (ENG)"]
[Black "Lohmann, Frank (GER)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2294"]
[BlackElo "2378"]
[Annotator "Wharrier,Jo"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2005.10.20"]
[EventType "tourn (corr)"]

1. e4 d5 {I used to play the Centre Counter OTB and it produced good
results
against strong players because of its novelty value. In CC this is a very
risky strategy.} 2. exd5 Qxd5 {...and this is not the safest option.} 3.
Nc3
Qa5 4. d4 c6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Bc4 Bf5 7. Bd2 e6 8. Nd5 Qd8 9. Nxf6+ gxf6 ({
No better is} 9... Qxf6 10. Qe2 $14) 10. Bb3 Nd7 11. Nh4 Bg6 12. Qf3 {
Anyone playing CC has to look at a good database BEFORE they reach this
point.
Three games, all won by White should suggest something to Black. Chose
another
opening!} Qb6 $6 $146 13. O-O-O $1 {I imagined that my opponent may have
been
trying to provoke c3 and then O-O-O for White can look a bit risky if
Black
can play a5,4.} Qxd4 (13... O-O-O $142) 14. Qh3 Ne5 15. Nxg6 Nxg6 (15...
fxg6
$4 16. Qxe6+ Be7 17. Rhe1 $18) 16. g3 h5 17. f4 Qc5 18. Bc3 Be7 19. Rhf1
Nf8
20. f5 e5 {Black's pieces are all tied up, the KR is completely out of
play.
Now is the time to switch play to the middle.} (20... exf5 21. Rxf5 $18)
21.
Qg2 a5 {When the position is looking bad, try for counter play.} 22. a3 b5
23.
Rfe1 Ra7 (23... b4 $5 24. Bxe5 $6 (24. Ba4 $1 Nd7 25. Bxc6 O-O $16) 24...
fxe5
25. Rxe5 Qxe5 26. Qxc6+ Nd7 27. Rxd7 Bg5+ 28. Kb1 O-O $17) 24. Bd2 Qb6 25.
Be3
Bc5 26. Bxc5 Qxc5 {White is a pawn down and has allowed the swapping of
material. Black is, however completely lost. His out of play rook means
White
is attacking a piece up.} 27. Rd3 a4 28. Rc3 Qb6 29. Rxc6 Qb8 30. Bd5 Nd7
31.
g4 Rg8 32. Qh3 {and Black resigned. Although material is level Black is
about
to be picked off one piece at a time.} 1-0





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Old November 13th 06, 08:17 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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bellatori wrote:
As in the commetry of the attached game... the scandinavian is a good
surprise against opponents who are not too much stronger than you. In
correspondence chess it is an absolute no-no. Black in general aims for a
type of Caro Kann position which then begs the question why not play the
Caro?


To save the move c6 if possible and to avoid the advance variation?

The variation in this game is definitely one of the critical tests for
the Scandinavian though.

[Event "EM/MN/093"]
[Site "ICCF Correspondence"]
[Date "2005.10.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Wharrier, Jo (ENG)"]
[Black "Lohmann, Frank (GER)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2294"]
[BlackElo "2378"]
[Annotator "Wharrier,Jo"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2005.10.20"]
[EventType "tourn (corr)"]

1. e4 d5 {I used to play the Centre Counter OTB and it produced good
results
against strong players because of its novelty value. In CC this is a very
risky strategy.} 2. exd5 Qxd5 {...and this is not the safest option.} 3.
Nc3
Qa5 4. d4 c6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Bc4 Bf5 7. Bd2 e6 8. Nd5 Qd8 9. Nxf6+ gxf6 ({
No better is} 9... Qxf6 10. Qe2 $14)


Actually I believe 9...Qxf6 is the right way to try to hang on for a
draw. The variations after 10.Qe2 are unpleasant, but as far as I know
black can hold the resulting positions with GM Prie's Qe5 idea (even if
there are really no realistic winning chances for black). 9...gxf6 is
more ambitious, but not particularly well founded.

4...c6 is an inaccurate move order after which white doesn't even have
to play 5.Nf3 and can play with Bc4+Bd2 for a quick d4-d5 which black
can only avoid by playing Qb6 (in the game black of course also had that
option on move 7).
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Old November 13th 06, 09:00 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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[Event "EM/MN/093"]
[Site "ICCF Correspondence"]
[Date "2005.10.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Wharrier, Jo (ENG)"]
[Black "Lohmann, Frank (GER)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2294"]
[BlackElo "2378"]
[Annotator "Wharrier,Jo"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2005.10.20"]
[EventType "tourn (corr)"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 c6 5. Nf3
Nf6


What about 5...Bg4?



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Old November 14th 06, 10:06 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Ray Gordon, creator of the \"pivot\" wrote:
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 c6 5. Nf3


What about 5...Bg4?


What about it, lever-boy? Rule of thumb is that there's no point
pinning the knight unless White has committed to castling short: why
do you think this position is an exception to the rule of thumb?
(``Because my computer gives it the highest evaluation'' is not an
answer.)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Flammable Disgusting Chicken (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a farm animal but it'll
turn your stomach and it burns really
easily!
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Old November 14th 06, 10:19 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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jsfromynr wrote:
If playing d5 equalizes the game then why not play center counter
1.e4 d5 to obtain equality on first move.


Because life isn't that easy.


Dave.

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www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ refreshing juice beverage that you
won't want the children to see!
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Old November 14th 06, 04:44 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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What about 5...Bg4?

What about it, lever-boy? Rule of thumb is that there's no point
pinning the knight unless White has committed to castling short: why
do you think this position is an exception to the rule of thumb?
(``Because my computer gives it the highest evaluation'' is not an
answer.)


Perhaps he could give an actual variation to support his claim.

I use a much different scheme against the Center Counter.


--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.

A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "AFCs pay my rent."


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