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Old October 15th 07, 10:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Endgame - can white win this?

This position arose during a match at our club tonight. It ended up a draw,
but white felt he should have been able to win it. However, during the post
mortem, we couldn't find a conclusive way, and neither, it seems, can Fritz 9.

8/7r/2Kpkp1P/7R/4P1P1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Can anyone see a way for white to win against best play?

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
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Old October 16th 07, 11:28 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Endgame - can white win this?

On Oct 15, 10:49 pm, (Tony Mountifield)
wrote:
This position arose during a match at our club tonight. It ended up a draw,
but white felt he should have been able to win it. However, during the post
mortem, we couldn't find a conclusive way, and neither, it seems, can Fritz 9.

8/7r/2Kpkp1P/7R/4P1P1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Can anyone see a way for white to win against best play?


I don't think so. So long as black keeps his King near his two black
pawns and doen't do anything silly white cannot exploit his extra h
pawn and his rook is tied down protecting it. Standard engines see the
material advantage but cannot find a way to exploit it so long as the
black king hangs around on d7,e7,e6.

I tried the position in Freezer and it also thought it a draw, but the
constraints I used to cut down on the permutations may have coloured
its analysis.

Regards,
Martin Brown

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Old October 16th 07, 12:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Endgame - can white win this?

In article .com,
Martin Brown wrote:
On Oct 15, 10:49 pm, (Tony Mountifield)
wrote:
8/7r/2Kpkp1P/7R/4P1P1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
Can anyone see a way for white to win against best play?

I don't think so. So long as black keeps his King near his two black
pawns and doen't do anything silly white cannot exploit his extra h
pawn and his rook is tied down protecting it. Standard engines see the
material advantage but cannot find a way to exploit it so long as the
black king hangs around on d7,e7,e6.


I don't think it's as easy as that. The WK can come round
to f4 and thence to f5 by tempo move with the R. After that, the
WK gets to g6, winning. Black's defence is to play the BK instead
to g6 when the WK goes to the K-side [not too soon, else Kd5 wins]
and pick up the h-pawn at the right moment. Then White can get into
a K&P ending with Ps g4, e4 vs f6, but Black can draw by keeping the
opposition -- Black has to be able to reply ... Kh6 when White takes
the d-pawn. There are many subtleties, but I don't see a win in the
K&P ending, nor if rooks stop on.

--
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.

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Old October 17th 07, 03:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Endgame - can white win this?

In article ,
Tony Mountifield wrote:
This position arose during a match at our club tonight. It ended up a draw,
but white felt he should have been able to win it. However, during the post
mortem, we couldn't find a conclusive way, and neither, it seems, can Fritz 9.

8/7r/2Kpkp1P/7R/4P1P1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Can anyone see a way for white to win against best play?


Thank you to Martin and Andy for confirming what we thought!

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
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