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Old January 13th 08, 09:28 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis, rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub Crippled in Just 24 Moves.

Here is a game between GetClub & Jester. GetClub Beginner Level lost
the game in just 24 moves.

Game Played between Jester and beginner at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jester : (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...017&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Jester) -- (beginner)

1) Pd2-d4(6) Pc7-c5(0)
2) Pc2-c3(6) Pc5-d4(8)
3) Pc3-d4(12) Pd7-d6(16)
4) Nb1-c3(12) Pe7-e6(10)
5) Pe2-e4(10) Nb8-c6(18)
6) Bf1-b5(12) Bc8-d7(6)
7) Ng1-f3(10) Ng8-f6(6)
8) Ke1-g1(8) Ph7-h6(8) [WRONG MOVE]
9) Pd4-d5(10) Pe6-d5(12)
10) Pe4-d5(8) Nc6-e5(12)
11) Rf1-e1(12) Qd8-e7(20)
12) Bc1-f4(12) Bd7-b5(6)
13) Bf4-e5(12) Pd6-e5(12)
14) Re1-e5(10) Pa7-a6(22)
15) Re5-e7(10) Bf8-e7(10) [WHITE gets Queen for Rook & Bishop]
16) Pd5-d6(68) Be7-f8(8)
17) Nc3-b5(10) Pa6-b5(8)
18) Qd1-e2(10) Ke8-d8(10)
19) Qe2-b5(10) Ra8-b8(8)
20) Pd6-d7(10) Nf6-d7(8)
21) Ra1-d1(10) Bf8-d6(8)
22) Rd1-d6(20) Kd8-e8(8)
23) Rd6-d7(10) Ke8-f8(12)
24) Qb5-b3(10) Pf7-f6(6)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jester: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...017&game=Chess
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

8) Ke1-g1(8) Ph7-h6(8) [WRONG MOVE]

Here the 8th move by black is wrong as after 12 Moves Black Lost its
Queen+Pawn to for Bishop + Rook.

Queen=9, Pawn=1 Black Lost=10 Points.
Rook=5, Bishop=3 White Lost = 8 Points.

So after 12th move Black Lost 2 Points.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

So the 8th move: h6 Was wrong. But Beginner only sees 6-7 depth it
cannot see that after 12 moves it will loose 2 Points. And then Lost
the Game.

Even though GetClub Chess was improved a lot It was beaten. So Much
more improvements are needed. Good players play a few games and give
your suggestions on how to improve GetClub Chess.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old January 13th 08, 06:58 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis, rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default GetClub Crippled in Just 24 Moves.

On Jan 13, 9:28*am, Sanny wrote:
Here is a game between GetClub & Jester. GetClub Beginner Level *lost
the game in just 24 moves.


GetClub seems to have all the sense of self preservation of a lemming.

White -- Black
(Jester) -- (beginner)

1) Pd2-d4(6) Pc7-c5(0)
2) Pc2-c3(6) Pc5-d4(8)
3) Pc3-d4(12) Pd7-d6(16)
4) Nb1-c3(12) Pe7-e6(10)
5) Pe2-e4(10) Nb8-c6(18)
6) Bf1-b5(12) Bc8-d7(6)
7) Ng1-f3(10) Ng8-f6(6)
8) Ke1-g1(8) Ph7-h6(8) [WRONG MOVE]


[snip]

Stage 1 would be to improve your game notation so that ChessBase
programs will accept it as a pasted game. You would get extra bonus
points if you put the players and time control info into canonical
form too.

This is *NOT* difficult to do. I hacked together a quick VBA script in
Excel to sort SannySkrit games into a form where even though they are
non-standard, CB products will parse them and import more or less
correctly.
Here is the script for anyone wanting to effortlessly turn ChessClub
games into a recognisable format that CB applications can easily
import (no warrantees - but it works OK for me on XL2002).

Sub fixup2()
k = 1
Do
intxt = Cells(k, 1)
outtxt = ""
For i = 1 To Len(intxt)
ch = Mid(intxt, i, 1)
If ch = ")" Then If i 5 Then ch = "." Else ch = "} "
If ch = "(" Then ch = " {"
If ch "P" Then outtxt = outtxt & ch
Next i
Cells(k, 4) = outtxt
k = k + 1
Loop While intxt "" Or Cells(k, 1) ""

Range("D1..D" & k).Select
End Sub

You paste the raw text starting in cell "A1" and allow the script to
run. Copy the new selection in column "D" and it should paste
correctly into generic ChessBase products. I have only tried this with
ChessProgram9.exe so others may be more fussy. Please post to the
thread about any example games that it cannot convert.

Minimal programming changes are as follows:

Use ". " after move number (and not ")" )
Never output "P"
Use "{" instead of "(" for time comments
Use "}" instead of ")" for time comments

These simple changes would make the syntax close enough to CB format
to allow them to work.

So the 8th move: h6 Was wrong. But Beginner only sees 6-7 depth it
cannot see that after 12 moves it will loose 2 Points. And then Lost
the Game.


8. ... h6 was bad because it has no real punch but it was not that
bad.
8. ... a6 or 8. ... Be7 would be more conventional.

It is the queens death wish that gets her into trouble.
11. ... Qe7 is certifiable - it sets up a pin for the opponent.
11. ... Qc7 although not great for black is a lot more survivable.
12. ... Bxb5 continues the death wish. 12. O-O-O would at least break
the RQK pin.

14. ... a6 demonstrates another programming weakness. When you are
behind on material the last thing you want to do is allow the opponent
the option of swapping off material at parity (and when you are ahead
you should try for equal swap offs). The value of any material
advantage increase when there is less total material on the board.
14. ... Bd7 is the best of a bad bunch.

Jester missed a deep forced win with 20. Qb6+ instead of 20. d7
20. ... Nxd7 are you sure the engine isn't playing in helpmate mode?
That white pawn is just about the only shelter that your unfortunate
widower king has to hide behind. Not much but at least it is home.
20. ... Bd6 would hold on for longer.

BTW what granularity does your static evaluation function have?
You keep talking in terms of whole pawns which is far too course a
measure.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old January 15th 08, 12:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis, rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub Crippled in Just 24 Moves.

On Jan 13, 11:58*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
On Jan 13, 9:28*am, Sanny wrote:

Here is a game between GetClub & Jester. GetClub Beginner Level *lost
the game in just 24 moves.


GetClub seems to have all the sense of self preservation of a lemming.

White -- Black
(Jester) -- (beginner)


1) Pd2-d4(6) Pc7-c5(0)
2) Pc2-c3(6) Pc5-d4(8)
3) Pc3-d4(12) Pd7-d6(16)
4) Nb1-c3(12) Pe7-e6(10)
5) Pe2-e4(10) Nb8-c6(18)
6) Bf1-b5(12) Bc8-d7(6)
7) Ng1-f3(10) Ng8-f6(6)
8) Ke1-g1(8) Ph7-h6(8) [WRONG MOVE]


[snip]

Stage 1 would be to improve your game notation so that ChessBase
programs will accept it as a pasted game. You would get extra bonus
points if you put the players and time control info into canonical
form too.

This is *NOT* difficult to do. I hacked together a quick VBA script in
Excel to sort SannySkrit games into a form where even though they are
non-standard, CB products will parse them and import more or less
correctly.
Here is the script for anyone wanting to effortlessly turn ChessClub
games into a recognisable format that CB applications can easily
import (no warrantees - but it works OK for me on XL2002).

Sub fixup2()
* *k = 1
* *Do
* * *intxt = Cells(k, 1)
* * *outtxt = ""
* * *For i = 1 To Len(intxt)
* * * *ch = Mid(intxt, i, 1)
* * * *If ch = ")" Then If i 5 Then ch = "." Else ch = "} "
* * * *If ch = "(" Then ch = " {"
* * * *If ch "P" Then outtxt = outtxt & ch
* * *Next i
* * *Cells(k, 4) = outtxt
* * *k = k + 1
* *Loop While intxt "" Or Cells(k, 1) ""

* *Range("D1..D" & k).Select
End Sub

You paste the raw text starting in cell "A1" and allow the script to
run. Copy the new selection in column "D" and it should paste
correctly into generic ChessBase products. I have only tried this with
ChessProgram9.exe so others may be more fussy. Please post to the
thread about any example games that it cannot convert.

Minimal programming changes are as follows:

Use ". " after move number (and not ")" )
Never output "P"
Use "{" instead of "(" for time comments
Use "}" instead of ")" for time comments

These simple changes would make the syntax close enough to CB format
to allow them to work.

So the 8th move: h6 Was wrong. But Beginner only sees 6-7 depth it
cannot see that after 12 moves it will loose 2 Points. And then Lost
the Game.


8. ... h6 was bad because it has no real punch but it was not that
bad.
8. ... a6 or 8. ... Be7 would be more conventional.

It is the queens death wish that gets her into trouble.
11. ... Qe7 is certifiable - it sets up a pin for the opponent.
11. ... Qc7 although not great for black is a lot more survivable.
12. ... Bxb5 continues the death wish. 12. O-O-O would at least break
the RQK pin.

14. ... a6 demonstrates another programming weakness. When you are
behind on material the last thing you want to do is allow the opponent
the option of swapping off material at parity (and when you are ahead
you should try for equal swap offs). The value of any material
advantage increase when there is less total material on the board.
14. ... Bd7 is the best of a bad bunch.

Jester missed a deep forced win with 20. Qb6+ instead of 20. d7
20. ... Nxd7 are you sure the engine isn't playing in helpmate mode?
That white pawn is just about the only shelter that your unfortunate
widower king has to hide behind. Not much but at least it is home.
20. ... Bd6 would hold on for longer.

BTW what granularity does your static evaluation function have?
You keep talking in terms of whole pawns which is far too course a
measure.

Regards,
Martin Brown


Here is the game in the Format you wanted.

Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...017&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)

1. d2-d4{6} c7-c5{0}
2. c2-c3{6} c5-d4{8}
3. c3-d4{12} d7-d6{16}
4. Nb1-c3{12} e7-e6{10}
5. e2-e4{10} Nb8-c6{18}
6. Bf1-b5{12} Bc8-d7{6}
7. Ng1-f3{10} Ng8-f6{6}
8. Ke1-g1{8} h7-h6{8}
9. d4-d5{10} e6-d5{12}
10. e4-d5{8} Nc6-e5{12}
11. Rf1-e1{12} Qd8-e7{20}
12. Bc1-f4{12} Bd7-b5{6}
13. Bf4-e5{12} d6-e5{12}
14. Re1-e5{10} a7-a6{22}
15. Re5-e7{10} Bf8-e7{10}
16. d5-d6{68} Be7-f8{8}
17. Nc3-b5{10} a6-b5{8}
18. Qd1-e2{10} Ke8-d8{10}
19. Qe2-b5{10} Ra8-b8{8}
20. d6-d7{10} Nf6-d7{8}
21. Ra1-d1{10} Bf8-d6{8}
22. Rd1-d6{20} Kd8-e8{8}
23. Rd6-d7{10} Ke8-f8{12}
24. Qb5-b3{10} f7-f6{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...017&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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