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Old January 28th 08, 06:22 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Solving Chess

I realize that not everyone is interested in the concept of "solving
chess" due to its many complexities and variations of "midgame" play.
However, what if the SECRET to solving chess is in the "draw"
dynamic? In other words what if the solution to chess was in playing
perfect "defense"? Would not a perfectly played game of chess NOT
result in a draw? How else could it end? The ONLY way that someone
"wins" is if a "mistake" was made, right? Therefore, if someone wins
then that was NOT a "perfect" game played by both sides.

It has been said that it is possible for white to force a draw in a
number of ways but I am talking about a "perfect game" here where both
sides apply perfect strategy which is oriented or strategized toward
long-term defense more than offense. I know that some people think
that the game would then just be "stuck" with no one able to move but
this dynamic plays into what I call "viable strategy" where a stuck
game draw is the same as a loss for BOTH sides. In other words, a
"true" draw under the "perfect" scenario ends with ONLY the two Kings
on the board.

So, what are your thoughts on "Solving Chess"?

Any thoughts on the best chess game ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your potential participation in this intellectual inquiry.

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Old January 28th 08, 09:17 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Solving Chess

On Jan 28, 12:22 pm, pialogue wrote:
Would not a perfectly played game of chess NOT
result in a draw? How else could it end? The ONLY way that someone
"wins" is if a "mistake" was made, right? Therefore, if someone wins
then that was NOT a "perfect" game played by both sides.


I disagree. You can't make that an assumption of a 'perfect' game,
because both side do not move at the same time. White moves first...
and White's goal is *not* to draw... it's to win. So for White to make
the 'perfect' move, Black would be lost from the first one.

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Old January 28th 08, 09:27 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Solving Chess

On Jan 28, 11:17 am, TrekNoid wrote:

Would not a perfectly played game of chess NOT
result in a draw? How else could it end? The ONLY way that someone
"wins" is if a "mistake" was made, right? Therefore, if someone wins
then that was NOT a "perfect" game played by both sides.


I disagree. You can't make that an assumption of a 'perfect' game,
because both side do not move at the same time. White moves first...
and White's goal is *not* to draw... it's to win. So for White to make
the 'perfect' move, Black would be lost from the first one.


Well, if that were the case then wouldn't chess ultimately be like
playing Russian Roulette with white having the initial choice of
specifically selecting the chamber that did "not" have the bullet?
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Old January 29th 08, 10:55 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Solving Chess

On Jan 28, 9:17*pm, TrekNoid wrote:
On Jan 28, 12:22 pm, pialogue wrote:

*Would not a perfectly played game of chess NOT
result in a draw? *How else could it end? *The ONLY way that someone
"wins" is if a "mistake" was made, right? *Therefore, if someone wins
then that was NOT a "perfect" game played by both sides.


We don't know that. Chess could be a forced first player win since
white has a 1 move head start, it might be drawn with optimal play or
it might just possibly be a Zugswang where the first player to move
must lose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang

I disagree. You can't make that an assumption of a 'perfect' game,
because both side do not move at the same time. White moves first...


Which might or might not be an advantage. My instinct is that Chess is
either a first player win or a draw with perfect play - but we don't
have enough computational resources to find that perfect notional
game. And probably never will...

and White's goal is *not* to draw... it's to win. So for White to make
the 'perfect' move, Black would be lost from the first one.


Only if there exists a forced win for white against any defence by
black. The starting position of chess might be Zugswang in which case
having to make the first move would make it a loss for white.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old January 29th 08, 04:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

So, what are your thoughts on "Solving Chess"?

Any thoughts on the best chess game ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.


Master Level/ Advance Level at GetClub Chess will play perfect Game as
they will think of 10-20 min/move and play the best game.

Such games will always end in a Draw. As both will take each others
pieces and reach a end game which results in draw.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html





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Old January 29th 08, 05:16 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

On Jan 29, 11:31*am, Sanny wrote:
So, what are your thoughts on "Solving Chess"?


Any thoughts on the best chess game ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.


Master Level/ Advance Level at GetClub Chess will play perfect Game as
they will think of 10-20 min/move and play the best game.


Utter nonsense. Apparently Sanny doesn't even bother to check his
own records. Looking through them, I found this game, played just 5
days ago. His "master" level is playing Black; readers may judge for
themselves how "perfectly":

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 e6 7. Nf3
Nc6 8. O-O h6 9. d5 exd5 10. Re1+ Be6 11. Nxd5 Bc5?? -- Missing an
elementary tactical sequence. 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Bxe6 fxe6 14. Qd5 Be7
15. Rxe6 -- Winning a pawn and retaining the initiative. 15...Qf7 16.
Qe4 O-O? 17. Bxh6 -- Winning another pawn and leaving Black's king
highly vulnerable. The game is effectively over.
Sanny's "perfect" program was busted after only a dozen moves. It
finally gave up when it had one pawn against two queens.

Such games will always end in a Draw.


Yeah, right. And water always flows uphill.

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Old January 29th 08, 05:32 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

On Jan 29, 10:16*pm, wrote:
On Jan 29, 11:31*am, Sanny wrote:

So, what are your thoughts on "Solving Chess"?


Any thoughts on the best chess game ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.


Master Level/ Advance Level at GetClub Chess will play perfect Game as
they will think of 10-20 min/move and play the best game.


* Utter nonsense. Apparently Sanny doesn't even bother to check his
own records. Looking through them, I found this game, played just 5
days ago. His "master" level is playing Black; readers may judge for
themselves how "perfectly":

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 e6 7. Nf3
Nc6 8. O-O h6 9. d5 exd5 10. Re1+ Be6 11. Nxd5 Bc5?? -- Missing an
elementary tactical sequence. 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Bxe6 fxe6 14. Qd5 Be7
15. Rxe6 -- Winning a pawn and retaining the initiative. 15...Qf7 16.
Qe4 O-O? 17. Bxh6 -- Winning another pawn and leaving Black's king
highly vulnerable. The game is effectively over.
* Sanny's "perfect" program was busted after only a dozen moves. It
finally gave up when it had one pawn against two queens.

Such games will always end in a Draw.


* Yeah, right. And water always flows uphill.


Advance Level !!!! And The game was improved 2 days back So Now even
Master level will play perfect game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old January 29th 08, 05:39 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

On Jan 29, 12:32*pm, Sanny wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:16*pm, wrote:





On Jan 29, 11:31*am, Sanny wrote:


So, what are your thoughts on "Solving Chess"?


Any thoughts on the best chess game ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.


Master Level/ Advance Level at GetClub Chess will play perfect Game as
they will think of 10-20 min/move and play the best game.


* Utter nonsense. Apparently Sanny doesn't even bother to check his
own records. Looking through them, I found this game, played just 5
days ago. His "master" level is playing Black; readers may judge for
themselves how "perfectly":


1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 e6 7. Nf3
Nc6 8. O-O h6 9. d5 exd5 10. Re1+ Be6 11. Nxd5 Bc5?? -- Missing an
elementary tactical sequence. 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Bxe6 fxe6 14. Qd5 Be7
15. Rxe6 -- Winning a pawn and retaining the initiative. 15...Qf7 16.
Qe4 O-O? 17. Bxh6 -- Winning another pawn and leaving Black's king
highly vulnerable. The game is effectively over.
* Sanny's "perfect" program was busted after only a dozen moves. It
finally gave up when it had one pawn against two queens.


Such games will always end in a Draw.


* Yeah, right. And water always flows uphill.


Advance Level !!!! And The game was improved 2 days back So Now even
Master level will play perfect game.


Absolute nonsense, Sanny. Would you care to wager, say, $100,000 on
your boast? If I'm going to waste days of my life waiting for your
inept program to make its mediocre-to-lousy moves, I must be
reasonably compensated.
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Old January 29th 08, 05:48 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

On Jan 29, 10:39*pm, wrote:
On Jan 29, 12:32*pm, Sanny wrote:





On Jan 29, 10:16*pm, wrote:


On Jan 29, 11:31*am, Sanny wrote:


So, what are your thoughts on "SolvingChess"?


Any thoughts on the bestchessgame ever played by either human or
computer would also be greatly appreciated.


Master Level/ Advance Level atGetClubChesswill play perfect Game as
they will think of 10-20 min/move and play the best game.


* Utter nonsense. Apparently Sanny doesn't even bother to check his
own records. Looking through them, I found this game, played just 5
days ago. His "master" level is playing Black; readers may judge for
themselves how "perfectly":


1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 e6 7. Nf3
Nc6 8. O-O h6 9. d5 exd5 10. Re1+ Be6 11. Nxd5 Bc5?? -- Missing an
elementary tactical sequence. 12. Nxf6+ Qxf6 13. Bxe6 fxe6 14. Qd5 Be7
15. Rxe6 -- Winning a pawn and retaining the initiative. 15...Qf7 16.
Qe4 O-O? 17. Bxh6 -- Winning another pawn and leaving Black's king
highly vulnerable. The game is effectively over.
* Sanny's "perfect" program was busted after only a dozen moves. It
finally gave up when it had one pawn against two queens.


Such games will always end in a Draw.


* Yeah, right. And water always flows uphill.


Advance Level !!!! And The game was improved 2 days back So Now even
Master level will play perfect game.


* Absolute nonsense, Sanny. Would you care to wager, say, $100,000 on
your boast? If I'm going to waste days of my life waiting for your
inept program to make its mediocre-to-lousy moves, I must be
reasonably compensated.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I am just guessing it may be correct or not. Game was improved 2 days
back. So Now Master Level will play much strong moves.

I am saying after seeing the recorded games. Today PatzerChess took 82
Moves to win Beginner Level. While other guy beat it in just 40 Moves.
But I can clearly see that now more and more people are loosing at
GetClub.

Earlier everyone was playing with Master Level Now no one dares to
play with it as Master level will win most of the time.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old January 29th 08, 06:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer, rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Master Level/ Advance Level will play perfect.

On Jan 29, 12:48*pm, Sanny wrote:

I am just guessing it may be correct or not.


So then, you really had no basis for saying "Master level will play
perfect game." In other words, Sanny, you were lying.

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