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Old February 19th 08, 08:22 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level

Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
Level today.

Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.

Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
Pieces.

This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
Beginner Level was able to beat it.

I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka . Is there any other
Program better than Jester and Rybka. As GetClub Beginner Level has
beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.

Here is the Game between GetClub(Beginner Level) and Rybka (Hard
Level)

Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...789&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}
15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}
17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...789&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

So players who used to think GetClub is worst Engine, Now change your
mind. As now GetClub has beaten Both Jester and Rybka Once. Should
GetClub take the Title of Best Program in the World Or there any other
Program which can beat GetClub like a fish.

How good Fritz and Chess Master Play? Anyone going to have a Match Can
they still beat the Master Level of GetClub?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old February 19th 08, 09:51 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level

On Feb 19, 3:22 am, Sanny wrote:

Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
Level today.

Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.


Sanny, I think you are misinterpreting the
program's behavior here. Unless it actually
"resigns", you cannot take the reins and
resign for it just because you want to, as
you so often have in the past-- even for
human players.


Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
Pieces.

This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
Beginner Level was able to beat it.


I recall that Zappa beat Rybka in some recent
event, but it mainly showed that the other
program's openings book guy won a single
battle against Rybka's opening's guru.


I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka .


That would be wrong.


Is there any other
Program better than Jester and Rybka.


Try playing a game out, to the actual finish
against Rybka, and see what happens.


As GetClub Beginner Level has
beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.


You are the only one who believes it did.

The rest of the world will see this as just
another "boy cries "wolf!" posting.


White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}


Things don't look too bad for the GC program
here. At this quick rate of play, Rybka went
after a pawn (g7) which would have opened a
file for attack on its own King.


15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}


A horrible strategic error. Black ought to
have fallen over itself to trade Queens, in
view of the severely compromised pawns
in front of its own King. Now White's
attack easily crashes through.


17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
my case, that would be Arena.

The longest mate goes as follows:

20. Rb1+ Ka7

21. Be3+ c5

22. Bxc5+ Bxc5

23. Qxc7+ Ka8

24. Qb7++

1-0


-- help bot
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Old February 19th 08, 10:47 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level

On Feb 19, 4:51 am, help bot wrote:

Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.



17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
my case, that would be Arena.



I tried to test this by having various engines
analyze, to see if in fact the GUI (Arena) has
a bug (i.e. unique feature) or if the fault lay
with the engine itself. Unfortunately, all I get
are error messages, saying that my bundled
engines are missing. I had "installed" Spike,
or so I thought, along with some other free
engines; no doubt they are hiding somewhere
on my disk drive.

My guess is that Sanny was using the free
Rybka demo, beta version, and that either it
or else his GUI (mine is Arena) will not allow
the engine(s) to analyze the position when it
has spotted a forced mating sequence-- even
a suboptimal one. I don't like that at all; my
preference would be for the legal moves to be
both ranked in order, and scored numerically.
"Here you are, bot: your dumb move is
ranked 53rd out of 57 legal moves, and you
missed seven different ways to quickly force
checkmate...".

Maybe the commercial versions handle
things better. Maybe the non-beta versions
work correctly. In any case, Sanny keeps
talking about "Rybka", when I expect he
really means Rybka beta demo version 1.0
(which is supposedly stronger than almost
every commercial program anyhow).


-- help bot







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Old February 19th 08, 11:27 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default GetClub(Beginner) beat Rybka at Best Level

On Feb 19, 3:47*pm, help bot wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:51 am, help bot wrote:

Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.
17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----


* This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
the next move in sequence. *I hate this, but
don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
my case, that would be Arena.


* I tried to test this by having various engines
analyze, to see if in fact the GUI (Arena) has
a bug (i.e. unique feature) or if the fault lay
with the engine itself. *Unfortunately, all I get
are error messages, saying that my bundled
engines are missing. *I had "installed" Spike,
or so I thought, along with some other free
engines; no doubt they are hiding somewhere
on my disk drive.

* My guess is that Sanny was using the free
Rybka demo, beta version, and that either it
or else his GUI (mine is Arena) will not allow
the engine(s) to analyze the position when it
has spotted a forced mating sequence-- even
a suboptimal one. *I don't like that at all; my
preference would be for the legal moves to be
both ranked in order, and scored numerically.
"Here you are, bot: your dumb move is
ranked 53rd out of 57 legal moves, and you
missed seven different ways to quickly force
checkmate...".

* Maybe the commercial versions handle
things better. *Maybe the non-beta versions
work correctly. *In any case, Sanny keeps
talking about "Rybka", when I expect he
really means Rybka beta demo version 1.0
(which is supposedly stronger than almost
every commercial program anyhow).

* -- help bot


Yes I played On a Computer and It finds Mate in 4.

mate in 4 moves 21. Be3+ c5 22. Bxc5+ Bxc5 23. Qxc7+ Ka8 24. Qb7#

Looks like there was an error at the Site Because actually it do not
move and there was an Error: "Unable to Response". It was a nice
Sacrifice by Rykba.

It saw 13 Moves Ahead to see Mate in 13. And then Sacrificed its Rook.
Beginner Level was just thinking till 8-10 depth deep So it overlooked
13 depth Mate.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old February 19th 08, 12:08 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Rybka is Best Program


Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Here is a Very Short game Rybka won in just 15 Moves. It out played
Easy Level in Just 15 Moves. Now I will try playing it with Normal
Level and see if Normal gives any Challege to Rybka.

Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...798&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (easy)

1. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{56} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{16} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-a4{10} Ng8-f6{0}
5. Ke1-g1{12} b7-b5{50}
6. Ba4-b3{12} Bf8-c5{26}
7. Nf3-e5{30} Nc6-e5{20}
8. d2-d4{18} Nf6-e4{26}
9. d4-c5{12} Ne4-f6{38}
10. f2-f4{18} Ne5-c6{26}
11. Rf1-e1{14} Ke8-f8{50}
12. Nb1-c3{16} Kf8-g8{24}
13. Nc3-d5{152} Nf6-d5{22}
14. Qd1-d5{18} Qd8-f8{38}
15. Qd5-f7{12} Qf8-f7{28}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...798&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old February 19th 08, 01:20 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Rybka is Best Program

Rybka beat GetClubs Normal Level in just 25 Moves.

Game Played between Rybka and normal at GetClub.com. Why do Normal
Level Lost to Rybka? Which were the Wrong Moves that Normal Level
Made?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...807&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (normal)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{22} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{14} Ng8-f6{0}
4. Ke1-g1{18} Nf6-e4{0}
5. d2-d4{14} Ne4-d6{0}
6. Bb5-c6{14} e5-e4{240}
7. Bc6-e4{46} Nd6-e4{198}
8. Qd1-e2{14} d7-d5{86}
9. Nb1-c3{24} f7-f5{110}
10. Nf3-e5{20} g7-g6{112}
11. Nc3-e4{20} f5-e4{106}
12. f2-f3{16} Qd8-d6{128}
13. f3-e4{18} d5-e4{148}
14. Qe2-e4{14} Bc8-f5{184}
15. Qe4-b7{16} Qd6-d4{116}
16. Kg1-h1{16} Qd4-e4{170}
17. Qb7-c7{30} Bf8-e7{82}
18. Bc1-g5{26} Be7-g5{96}
19. Qc7-f7{22} Ke8-d8{122}
20. Ra1-d1{16} Kd8-c8{92}
21. Rf1-f5{16} Qe4-f5{90}
22. Qf7-c4{54} Kc8-b8{82}
23. Qc4-b4{28} Kb8-c7{134}
24. Qb4-c5{22} Kc7-b8{132}
25. Qc5-d6{16} Kb8-c8{126}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...807&game=Chess

Please Analyze this small game and let me know Why Normal Level lost
to Rybka? What were the wrong moves by GetClub Chess?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old February 19th 08, 03:57 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Default opening's guru vs. endgame analysis


"help bot" wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 3:22 am, Sanny wrote:

Rybka which claims to be best Chess program was beaten by Beginner
Level today.

Rybka played wrong move thinking it will Mate in 2/3 But the King was
saved and Rybka Resigned saying Unable to Respone.


Sanny, I think you are misinterpreting the
program's behavior here. Unless it actually
"resigns", you cannot take the reins and
resign for it just because you want to, as
you so often have in the past-- even for
human players.


Rybka was playing at Hard Level and Beginner was playing with Black
Pieces.

This show Rybka is not Strongest Chess Program in the World as
Beginner Level was able to beat it.


I recall that Zappa beat Rybka in some recent
event, but it mainly showed that the other
program's openings book guy won a single
battle against Rybka's opening's guru.


I have a question about fairness:

If computer programs are allowed to have
opening's books (i.e. human-aided analysis)
when playing against humans...

then why can't humans have endgame analysis
from a hand-held calculator
when playing against computers?

-N-




I suppose GetClub is now as good as Rybka .


That would be wrong.


Is there any other
Program better than Jester and Rybka.


Try playing a game out, to the actual finish
against Rybka, and see what happens.


As GetClub Beginner Level has
beaten Both of them once. Both claim at their site they are the Best.
But then why Rybka lost to Beginner Level.


You are the only one who believes it did.

The rest of the world will see this as just
another "boy cries "wolf!" posting.


White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{16} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{18} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{10} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-c6{14} d7-c6{12}
5. Ke1-g1{14} Qd8-d6{6}
6. d2-d3{14} Bc8-e6{8}
7. b2-b3{16} Ke8-c8{6}
8. Nb1-d2{12} Qd6-c5{8}
9. Nd2-c4{24} Be6-c4{6}
10. b3-c4{16} Qc5-d6{12}
11. Qd1-e1{14} Ng8-f6{10}
12. Ra1-b1{28} Bf8-e7{6}
13. Qe1-e3{20} Kc8-b8{8}
14. Qe3-g5{22} Nf6-e4{20}


Things don't look too bad for the GC program
here. At this quick rate of play, Rybka went
after a pawn (g7) which would have opened a
file for attack on its own King.


15. Qg5-e5{14} Ne4-f6{6}
16. Bc1-f4{18} Qd6-d7{6}


A horrible strategic error. Black ought to
have fallen over itself to trade Queens, in
view of the severely compromised pawns
in front of its own King. Now White's
attack easily crashes through.


17. Qe5-a5{30} Be7-d6{8}
18. Nf3-e5{14} Qd7-e8{8}
19. Rb1-b7{22} Kb8-b7{10}
20. Rf1-b1{24} Kb7-a7{6}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a forced mate, and in such cases,
a few programs "freeze up", just displaying
the next move in sequence. I hate this, but
don't know if it is a flaw of the engine itself,
or another "interesting facet" of the GUI; in
my case, that would be Arena.

The longest mate goes as follows:

20. Rb1+ Ka7

21. Be3+ c5

22. Bxc5+ Bxc5

23. Qxc7+ Ka8

24. Qb7++

1-0


-- help bot




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #8   Report Post  
Old February 19th 08, 04:12 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 3,390
Default opening's guru vs. endgame analysis

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:57:11 -0500, "webfilelib"
wrote:


I have a question about fairness:


If computer programs are allowed to have
opening's books (i.e. human-aided analysis)
when playing against humans...


then why can't humans have endgame analysis
from a hand-held calculator
when playing against computers?



One obvious answer is an opening book is analogous to human memory,
but a calculator is another computer.

But, they *do* have contests of man+computer versus computer.

It's not really a question of "fairness". You can set up these
contests any way you want, just as you can set up consultation games
between humans, or correspondence games where the master takes on the
readership of a publication (with the readership's move selected by
vote), etc.

And you *can* play the computer with the opening book turned off. In
fact, I think the main function of the opening book is just to
channel the game away from anti-computer strategies -- human analysis
is of too low quality to help the silicon monsters these days.
  #9   Report Post  
Old February 19th 08, 05:22 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Rybka is Best Program

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Here is another game with Rybka. Can you find mistake in Getclubs
game?

Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...825&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (beginner)

1. e2-e4{4} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{48} d7-d6{0}
3. Bf1-c4{16} Nb8-c6{6}
4. Nb1-c3{14} Bc8-g4{6}
5. Ke1-g1{26} Ng8-f6{8}
6. h2-h3{22} Bg4-f3{6}
7. Qd1-f3{20} Nc6-d4{6}
8. Qf3-d3{18} c7-c6{8}
9. a2-a4{22} b7-b6{6}
10. Nc3-e2{18} Nd4-e2{6}
11. Qd3-e2{18} Bf8-e7{8}
12. d2-d4{16} e5-d4{8}
13. Rf1-d1{14} Ke8-g8{6}
14. Rd1-d4{24} d6-d5{14}
15. e4-d5{14} Be7-c5{6}
16. Rd4-d3{18} Qd8-e8{8}
17. Qe2-e8{16} Rf8-e8{8}
18. d5-c6{14} Re8-e1{6}
19. Kg1-h2{42} Bc5-f2{6}
20. c6-c7{22} Bf2-g1{6}
21. Kh2-g3{18} Ra8-e8{6}
22. Rd3-d8{14} Nf6-e4{6}
23. Kg3-f3{16} Ne4-d6{8}
24. Bc1-f4{24} Re1-e4{6}
25. Ra1-g1{18} Nd6-b7{8}
26. Rg1-d1{18} g7-g5{6}
27. Qc7-c8{Q}{22} Re4-f4{6}
28. Kf3-g3{18} Nb7-d8{6}
29. Rd1-d8{14} Kg8-g7{8}
30. Rd8-e8{14} a7-a5{8}
31. Re8-g8{20} Kg7-f6{8}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
beginner: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...825&game=Chess

Rybka went to get Queen and there was no way to stop that passed pawn.
What do you think?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old February 19th 08, 07:48 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
SBD SBD is offline
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,172
Default Rybka is Best Program

On Feb 19, 11:22*am, Sanny wrote:

Rybka went to get Queen and there was no way to stop that passed pawn.
What do you think?


I wiash you would stop posting this garbage until you know the least
little thing about

(1). chess

(2). computer chess


but that seems unlikely.
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