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Old June 4th 08, 11:01 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Game with Rybka Drawn. !!!

Today I tried a new game between Normal Level (100 seconds/move) &
Rybka (5 seconds / move) And the Game was Drawn by Repetitive moves.

Yesterday I said GetClub is 20 times weaker than Rybka, Since Normal
Level which thinks 16 times more than Rybka at 5 seconds / move plays
as good as Rybka.

I showed a game where the game was nearly equal but later Rybka was
able to break the defence and win in 43 moves. People said Rybka won
the game and It was only 1 game after the game was improved. So they
do not bilieve Rybka at 5 seconds plays as good as Normal Level.

So now you all agree Normal level plays as good as Rybka at 5 seconds/
move?

Game Played between Rybka and Normal at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...551&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (normal)

1. d2-d4{12} c7-c5{0}
2. d4-d5{14} Ng8-f6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{12} d7-d6{148}
4. Ng1-f3{16} Bc8-f5{152}
5. e2-e3{18} e7-e5{98}
6. Nf3-h4{18} Bf5-g4{130}
7. Bf1-e2{16} Bg4-d7{120}
8. Ke1-g1{20} e5-e4{84}
9. Be2-b5{18} Bd7-b5{150}
10. Nc3-b5{94} Nb8-a6{108}
11. c2-c4{18} g7-g6{84}
12. Bc1-d2{18} Bf8-g7{140}
13. Bd2-c3{20} Ke8-g8{112}
14. Qd1-e2{16} Na6-c7{116}
15. Nb5-c7{18} Qd8-c7{102}
16. f2-f4{18} Qc7-d7{122}
17. b2-b3{16} h7-h6{94}
18. Ra1-d1{12} Qd7-g4{160}
19. Qe2-e1{18} Rf8-e8{102}
20. Qe1-f2{20} Ra8-d8{186}
21. a2-a3{20} b7-b6{80}
22. h2-h3{18} Qg4-d7{140}
23. b3-b4{14} c5-b4{120}
24. a3-b4{40} Rd8-c8{86}
25. Qf2-b2{40} Qd7-d8{80}
26. Qb2-e2{20} Nf6-h5{144}
27. Bc3-e1{24} Nh5-f6{120}
28. Be1-c3{20} Nf6-h5{82}
29. Bc3-e1{22} Nh5-f6{172}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...551&game=Chess

The game was ended in just 29 moves.

What do you think How is GetClub going.

A party time for GetClub as this is the first game where GetClub was
able to Draw with Rybka.

So now Normal Level plays as good as Rybka at 5 seconds / move. Do you
all agree with that. So GetClub is 20 times weaker than Rybka. A move
Rybka thinks in 1 second. GetClub needs 20 seconds for finding that
move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old June 4th 08, 11:52 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default Game with Rybka Drawn. !!!

On Jun 4, 6:01 am, Sanny wrote:

Today I tried a new game between Normal Level (100 seconds/move) &
Rybka (5 seconds / move) And the Game was Drawn by Repetitive moves.

Yesterday I said GetClub is 20 times weaker than Rybka, Since Normal
Level which thinks 16 times more than Rybka at 5 seconds / move plays
as good as Rybka.

I showed a game where the game was nearly equal but later Rybka was
able to break the defence and win in 43 moves. People said Rybka won
the game and It was only 1 game after the game was improved. So they
do not bilieve Rybka at 5 seconds plays as good as Normal Level.

So now you all agree Normal level plays as good as Rybka at 5 seconds/
move?


View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...551&game=Chess


One issue is that this game ended early, with no
real contest of skill between the two programs in
the endgame. We all know that one of these two
programs has serious problems in the endgame,
so in order to conduct an "acid test", you would
need to set Rybka's contempt factor such that it
avoids repetition draws, except when losing like
a carrot.

I was disappointed when, in the recent odds
match between Rybka and GM Dzindzi., the
Rybka operator "gave" the human a draw in the
final game, without making him *earn it*. The
desire to garner the anti-computer expert's help
apparently outweighed any competitive spirit;
such draws are not evidence of equal strength,
but rather, of a lack of fighting spirit. Against
other strong programs, Rybka often pulled off
incredible feats in the endgame, so I tend to
dismiss any claims that RD was simply too
awesome to lose such a position as bunk.

I am curious to know how the Rybka engine
is limited to exactly five seconds per move. In
the famous game between Ivan and GetClub, I
took the "key position" and allowed Rybka to
duke it out with Fritz; the result was, rather
surprisingly, a "save" of a lost position by the
stronger engine. I really have no idea regarding
the Rybka program's strength if limited to five
seconds and no thinking on the opponent's
time, except it often seems to be able to
pinpoint the "best" move at lower plys, then
change its mind and prefer some other move(s),
then switch back to the original preference, and
this seems to suggest that it can play strong
chess, even with very limited time.

Anyway, it was a very good result. One thing
I don't understand though, is how Rybka got a
draw for repeating the position, when in all my
games I got losses... .


-- help bot
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Old June 4th 08, 02:11 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default Game with Rybka Drawn. !!!

Sanny wrote:

Today I tried a new game between Normal Level (100 seconds/move) &
Rybka (5 seconds / move) And the Game was Drawn by Repetitive moves.


That roughly translates to saying that at equal time allocation Rybka
will see approximately 4 plys deeper than Normal level.

It isn't clear how the ply depth of Getclub scales with increasing time.

Yesterday I said GetClub is 20 times weaker than Rybka, Since Normal
Level which thinks 16 times more than Rybka at 5 seconds / move plays
as good as Rybka.

I showed a game where the game was nearly equal but later Rybka was
able to break the defence and win in 43 moves. People said Rybka won
the game and It was only 1 game after the game was improved. So they
do not bilieve Rybka at 5 seconds plays as good as Normal Level.

So now you all agree Normal level plays as good as Rybka at 5 seconds/
move?


It managed to hold on in a fairly dull game, but one swallow does not
make a summer.

Game Played between Rybka and Normal at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...551&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka) -- (normal)

[snip]
26. Qb2-e2{20} Nf6-h5{144}


Nh5 is well off the pace. Too easily countered.

Getclub had slight winning chances here so it isn't too suprising that
Rybka was prepared to go for draw by repetition.

26. a5 looks about the most direct line of attack

27. Bc3-e1{24} Nh5-f6{120}
28. Be1-c3{20} Nf6-h5{82}
29. Bc3-e1{22} Nh5-f6{172}


So now Normal Level plays as good as Rybka at 5 seconds / move. Do you
all agree with that. So GetClub is 20 times weaker than Rybka. A move
Rybka thinks in 1 second. GetClub needs 20 seconds for finding that
move.


We don't know that. It is quite likely that whilst Rybka will gain an
extra ply of search for every doubling of the time allowed your program
will very likely scale considerably worse.

We can only conclude from this test that it is possible for getclub
"normal" to hold Rybka 5s to a draw at least once.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Old June 4th 08, 05:29 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Game with Rybka Drawn. !!!

* Anyway, it was a very good result. *One thing
I don't understand though, is how Rybka got a
draw for repeating the position, when in all my
games I got losses... .



The game was improved 2 days back and you havent completed any game
after that improvement. So now on you will face the real Challenge.
Even Normal Level will play as good as Rybka at 5 sec/ move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old June 4th 08, 05:45 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Game with Rybka Drawn. !!!

Getclub had slight winning chances here so it isn't too suprising
that Rybka was prepared to go for draw by repetition.


GetClub with Black pieces was at Advantage. Why was Rybka not able to
take advantage of White pieces and get into a weaker position?

Is there any wrong move by GetClub that it was unable to win the game?

What should have GetClub done to win the game. Why it just draw the
game?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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