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Old June 26th 08, 05:28 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Zebediah made the King dance from e8-a1.

An interesting game by Zebediah against Advance Level..

Black King had to run out from e8 to a1. Zebediah trapped Black's Rook
and win easily.

Most interesting was how Black King ran from e8 to a1 But atlast has
to surrender.

Game Played between zebediah and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...199&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(zebediah) -- (advance)

1. d2-d4{16} d7-d5{0}
2. c2-c4{4} e7-e6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{4} Ng8-f6{0}
4. Ng1-f3{4} c7-c6{0}
5. e2-e3{4} d5-c4{1812}
6. Bf1-c4{17078} b7-b5{0}
7. Bc4-d3{8} Bf8-d6{1878}
8. e3-e4{712} b5-b4{1330}
9. e4-e5{834} b4-c3{1314}
10. b2-c3{58} Bc8-a6{3050}
11. e5-f6{976} g7-f6{2310}
12. Bd3-a6{310} Nb8-a6{3116}
13. Ke1-g1{3802} Na6-c7{1544}
14. Bc1-h6{810} Rh8-g8{1732}
15. Rf1-e1{866} Rg8-g6{1702}
16. Bh6-d2{396} Qd8-d7{1578}
17. Ra1-b1{192} c6-c5{2608}
18. Nf3-h4{790} Rg6-g8{1286}
19. Qd1-f3{24} Nc7-d5{1416}
20. c3-c4{142} Nd5-c7{1344}
21. Bd2-a5{864} Ra8-d8{2940}
22. Nh4-f5{11778} c5-d4{2592}
23. Nf5-d6{1240} Qd7-d6{1620}
24. Rb1-b7{298} Rd8-c8{1780}
25. Ba5-c7{118} Rc8-c7{2488}
26. Rb7-b8{7848} Ke8-e7{0}
27. Rb8-g8{4} Qd6-b4{1746}
28. Re1-e6{198} f7-e6{2934}
29. Rg8-g7{186} Ke7-d8{2282}
30. Qf3-a8{140} Rc7-c8{2056}
31. Rg7-g8{212} Kd8-e7{2946}
32. Qa8-a7{66} Ke7-d6{2432}
33. Qa7-d4{400} Kd6-c7{1936}
34. Rg8-g7{12} Kc7-c6{1310}
35. Qd4-d7{338} Kc6-c5{1916}
36. Qd7-c8{220} Kc5-d4{1990}
37. Qc8-d7{2912} Kd4-c3{1536}
38. Qd7-d1{288} Kc3-b2{1654}
39. Rg7-d7{66} Qb4-c4{1590}
40. Qd1-d2{1114} Kb2-a1{148}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...199&game=Chess

What do you think Advance Level was wrong that it lost its Rook?

Can you spot any mistake in this interesting game?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old June 26th 08, 05:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Sanny wrote:

What do you think Advance Level was wrong that it lost its Rook?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F6MwlEsdAA
--

"Do that which is right..."

Rev. J.D. Walker
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Old June 26th 08, 06:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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On Jun 26, 9:53*pm, "J.D. Walker" wrote:
Sanny wrote:

What do you think Advance Level was wrong that it lost its Rook?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F6MwlEsdAA


So that Storm take away the Rook?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old June 26th 08, 07:38 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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How can the so-called "advance" level, rumored to take as long as 6
hours for a move, play such a tactically terrible game as the one
above?

Based on this game can we even say that advance level is as good as
1800 ELO?
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Old June 27th 08, 12:15 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Get Club beaten like carrots

On Jun 26, 2:38 pm, " wrote:

How can the so-called "advance" level, rumored to take as long as 6
hours for a move, play such a tactically terrible game as the one
above?

Based on this game can we even say that advance level is as good as
1800 ELO?


It is impossible to estimate accurately, since
we don't even know which engine Zeb is using.

The best way to get a reliable estimate is to
have the GetClub program play a number of
different opponents near its own level, some
games with White, some with Black, and in
several different openings.

A few obvious flaws which seem to repeat
themselves quite frequently:

1) ...B-a6 (as in this game);

2) Premature Queen moves (such as 1. d4 Nf6,
2. Qd3);

3) Preferring moves which lead to the King
getting trapped in the center.

The program is still buggy. I had a game
recently where it was not my turn to move
and the program declared itself the winner
in a losing position! My GC rating took a
nasty hit, I expect.

In another game, I miniaturized it (more
or less, depending on how you define it) in
a dull, closed position where it crammed
its pieces into a corner away from its own
King.

Nevertheless, it seems to get the tactics
right up to a certain, albeit very shallow,
depth. Note how Zeb not only uses a much
stronger engine, but he also takes White--
as if to enjoy watching the carnage. In the
one game in which I let another engine
duke it out with GC, I offered up QN odds
as best I could (i.e. N-a3, N-b5, N-a7) and
it was a reasonably interesting game for a
while.

My guess is that if you lined up a bunch
of human players and randomly stuck GC
somewhere in the middle, nobody could
tell which patzer was which, assuming
they were all facing a commercial chess
engine. I still see folks who play there
/anonymously/ and then, if and when they
get lucky, come here to brag. But where
are the real-life Class-x players now? now
that the program is no longer somewhere
around 1000 USCF? And lest we forget,
there is no real time limit for the human
opponents; how many times I would
have lost OTB if it weren't for this built-in
"safety"!

Somebody really ought to help Sanny out
with getting him fixed up on ICS or FICS;
not merely /telling him how/ to do it, but
actually git 'er done, so we all can see the
objective results.


-- help bot




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Old June 27th 08, 08:09 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Zebediah made the King dance from e8-a1.

On Jun 26, 9:28 am, Sanny wrote:

But atlast has to surrender.


Sanny, what's GM Atlast's rating?

Wlod
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Old June 27th 08, 08:54 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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How can the so-called "advance" level, rumored to take as long as 6
hours for a move, play such a tactically terrible game as the one
above?


Play with Master Level and see for yourself how it crushes you.

Only 3 players are able to win the higher Levels.

1. Help Bot - Beginner, Easy, Normal
2. Bonsai - Beginner, Easy, Normal
3. Zebediah Beginner, Easy, Normal, and Master and also Advance.

Rest other players cannot face even the Beginner Level..

Beginner: 1800
Easy: 1900
Normal: 2000
Master: 2100
Advance: 2200

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html





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Old June 27th 08, 08:55 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Zebediah made the King dance from e8-a1.

But atlast has to surrender.

Sanny, what's GM Atlast's rating?


I do not know may be 2300+. As Advance level plays as good as 2300+
rated player.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old June 27th 08, 10:39 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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On Jun 27, 3:54 am, Sanny wrote:

How can the so-called "advance" level, rumored to take as long as 6
hours for a move, play such a tactically terrible game as the one
above?


Actually, that game was a *strategical* crush;
no amount of number-crunching would have
saved Black from doom.


Play with Master Level and see for yourself how it crushes you.

Only 3 players are able to win the higher Levels.

1. Help Bot - Beginner, Easy, Normal


And Master, and Advance, though I may
die of old age.


2. Bonsai - Beginner, Easy, Normal


Bonsai's overall record is shown as 70--4;
maybe he just doesn't have the patience to
play the higher levels.


3. Zebediah Beginner, Easy, Normal, and Master and also Advance.


Zeb is obviously using another chess engine;
you're never going to be able to beat him.


Rest other players cannot face even the Beginner Level..

Beginner: 1800
Easy: 1900
Normal: 2000
Master: 2100
Advance: 2200


In the very next post in this thread, the
Advance level somehow miraculously jumps
to "2300+".

All these numbers are way too high. Look
at my most recent games-- a near-miniature
against the Normal level, demonstrating its
many inherent flaws:

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...181&game=Chess

Another win where, this time, the program
does not merely self-destruct on its own:

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...208&game=Chess

A tough fight against the *Advance* level,
in which the program managed to land a
decisive tactical blow for once, but then
botched the endgame terribly:

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...686&game=Chess

In view of all this, I think the ratings of
1800--2300+ are way out of whack; just
chop off around 200 points or so from
those outlandish numbers:

Beginner: 1400
Easy: 1600
Normal: 1750
Master: 1900
Advance: 2000

Better still, get this thing going on FICS,
and let's stop with all the guessing games.


-- help bot





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Old June 27th 08, 07:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Only 3 players are able to win the higher Levels.

1. Help Bot - Beginner, Easy, Normal
2. Bonsai - Beginner, Easy, Normal
3. Zebediah Beginner, Easy, Normal, and Master and also Advance.



Don't you mean that only those 3 are willing to waste their time
playing
what ammounts to postal chess vs your very weak engine? Even your
very own site shows that your "Advanced" mode which takes hours per
move is +2 -48 and yet you assign it a "2400 rating on some imaginary
Sanny scale.

Although I know the effort will be fruitless I will offer two more
tidbits of
wisdom for you.

1) Virtually every program I have seen, including yours, has roughly
the
same strength at every time control. This presumes, of course, that
the
human is playing under the same time constraints. If anything, most of
them seem stronger to me at fast time controls.

2) The length of a games in moves is not even close to being an
accurate
gauge of the relative strength of the players. This tends to be more a
matter of style then strength.
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