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Old March 17th 09, 11:12 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Quickest Mate by Chess-Challenger

On Mar 15, 10:49*pm, madams wrote:

I think you should reflect on the 'competition' giving special attention
to the vintage CC7's reputed Elo..

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tluif/chescom/EngCc7.html



Hmm...

The number "1311" seems a bit odd, as does
testing against Fritz8 one-ply.

As I recall (!), this machine had a level at which
it cranked for twenty minutes per move, and no
"beginner", as indicated at your link, would be
likely to survive very long. The program's weak-
ness was that it sped up dramatically once the
pieces were traded off, but by then most weakies,
as they were then called, would have a dead lost
game anyway.

This machine knew the openings, control of the
center, how to activate the King in the endgame,
and the importance of mobility, or piece activity.
It looked deeper when there were checks or
captures, and it made basically correct calcula-
tions, apart from a Knight getting trapped in a
corner and that sort of thing.

Sure, on the modern lists, where Rybka weighs
in at 3200+, you can get an old machine down to
such a number as "1311". But on the old lists--
the ones which were valid at the time these
machines actually lived and were not yet relics,
such a number represented a human player
who habitually made crude tactical blunders
(want to see my games?).

Still, if you want to be a hard case and limit
thinking time to just a minute or two per move,
you can say the lower to middle levels were
only 1311ish. But that is to ignore the fact
that back then, folks were quite willing to make
allowances for these feeble-minded creatures,
just as, say, Rybka does for us humans today.

Heck, I believe the CC7 even had a "postal"
level, which cranked for around 24 hours per
move. A human player rated 1311 USCF at
the time would have been crushed like a
chicken in the road... .


-- help bot

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Old May 2nd 09, 07:20 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jan 2009
Posts: 717
Default Quickest Mate by Chess-Challenger

help bot wrote:

On Mar 15, 10:49 pm, madams wrote:

I think you should reflect on the 'competition' giving special attention
to the vintage CC7's reputed Elo..

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tluif/chescom/EngCc7.html


Hmm...

The number "1311" seems a bit odd, as does
testing against Fritz8 one-ply.


Not really, CC7 has I think 7 levels so 1311 Elo = level 2 say, as
suggested by the data:

White: Fritz 8 (1 ply)

Black: Chess Challenger 7 ( 15 seconds / move)

(Result: drawn)

As I recall (!), this machine had a level at which
it cranked for twenty minutes per move,


Yep! - that's right, Level 5 or 'tournament level' maybe ~ 1750 Elo if
you could stand the wait...

Level 6 = "postal" like you said below & Level 7 'infinity' whatever
that meant back then (1979)..

m.

and no
"beginner", as indicated at your link, would be
likely to survive very long. The program's weak-
ness was that it sped up dramatically once the
pieces were traded off, but by then most weakies,
as they were then called, would have a dead lost
game anyway.

This machine knew the openings, control of the
center, how to activate the King in the endgame,
and the importance of mobility, or piece activity.
It looked deeper when there were checks or
captures, and it made basically correct calcula-
tions, apart from a Knight getting trapped in a
corner and that sort of thing.

Sure, on the modern lists, where Rybka weighs
in at 3200+, you can get an old machine down to
such a number as "1311". But on the old lists--
the ones which were valid at the time these
machines actually lived and were not yet relics,
such a number represented a human player
who habitually made crude tactical blunders
(want to see my games?).

Still, if you want to be a hard case and limit
thinking time to just a minute or two per move,
you can say the lower to middle levels were
only 1311ish. But that is to ignore the fact
that back then, folks were quite willing to make
allowances for these feeble-minded creatures,
just as, say, Rybka does for us humans today.

Heck, I believe the CC7 even had a "postal"
level, which cranked for around 24 hours per
move. A human player rated 1311 USCF at
the time would have been crushed like a
chicken in the road... .

-- help bot

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