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Old December 28th 09, 03:12 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've ever seen

q4rk1/2nR1pp1/n6p/2p1PQ2/p1P2P1N/Pr2PN2/5K2/B7 w - - 0 1
wKf2,Qf5,Nf3,h4,Ba1,Rd7,Pa3,c4,e3,e5,f4/
bKg8,Qa8,Na6,c7,Rb3,f8,Pa4,c5,f7,g7,h6


Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan, Poland, 1961 1-0 (if anybody has the
complete game please post here)

Above is the most amazing finish (and blown win) I've seen in years.
It's exercise Diagram 150 from the excellent book "Test Your Tactical
Ability" by Yakov Neishtadt (1981, Batsford).

The author wrongly claims that a cascade of spectacular sacrifices
wins for White by forced mate, starting with 1.Ng5! (???--RL) hg 2.
Ng6! fg 3. Rxg7! Kxg7 (???--RL, instead Kh8! wins for black) 4.e6+ and
White won says Neishtadt.

I always double check my answers with Fritz when I got this one wrong
I checked my answer with Fritz's and found it was the same (1.e6, Ne6
2.Qe6 +- 1.66 Fritz). Then I checked the proposed (and actually
played) moves, and found they lose, but in a spectacular way:

After the correct 3...Kh8! (not Kxg7, a forced win for white), there
is a very nice line for black that is not at all obvious he

1.Ng5 hg 2. Ng6 fg 3. Rg7 Kh8 4. Qg6 (Rf7 is loses slower for white, -
+2.66)

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: 4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.

I nominate this game as the best finish I've ever seen. You also know
it wasn't a staged game, since the players did not play the proposed
finish (or if they staged it, they did not see the above line).

Any disagreements? If you don't like this game you should tip your
King and resign from playing chess again!

RL
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Old December 28th 09, 03:20 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 28, 10:12*am, RayLopez99 wrote:
*q4rk1/2nR1pp1/n6p/2p1PQ2/p1P2P1N/Pr2PN2/5K2/B7 w - - 0 1
wKf2,Qf5,Nf3,h4,Ba1,Rd7,Pa3,c4,e3,e5,f4/
bKg8,Qa8,Na6,c7,Rb3,f8,Pa4,c5,f7,g7,h6

Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan, Poland, 1961 1-0 * (if anybody has the
complete game please post here)

Above is the most amazing finish (and blown win) I've seen in years.
It's exercise Diagram 150 from the excellent book "Test Your Tactical
Ability" by Yakov Neishtadt (1981, Batsford).

The author wrongly claims that a cascade of spectacular sacrifices
wins for White by forced mate, starting with 1.Ng5! (???--RL) hg 2.
Ng6! fg 3. Rxg7! Kxg7 (???--RL, instead Kh8! wins for black) 4.e6+ and
White won says Neishtadt.

I always double check my answers with Fritz when I got this one wrong
I checked my answer with Fritz's and found it was the same (1.e6, Ne6
2.Qe6 +- 1.66 Fritz). *Then I checked the proposed (and actually
played) moves, and found they lose, but in a spectacular way:

After the correct 3...Kh8! (not Kxg7, a forced win for white), there
is a very nice line for black that is not at all obvious he

1.Ng5 hg 2. Ng6 fg 3. Rg7 Kh8 4. Qg6 (Rf7 is loses slower for white, -
+2.66)

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: *4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! *Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.

I nominate this game as the best finish I've ever seen. *You also know
it wasn't a staged game, since the players did not play the proposed
finish (or if they staged it, they did not see the above line).

Any disagreements? *If you don't like this game you should tip your
King and resign from playing chess again!

RL


Cross posting to computer as well.
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Old December 28th 09, 07:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 28, 10:12*am, RayLopez99 wrote:
*q4rk1/2nR1pp1/n6p/2p1PQ2/p1P2P1N/Pr2PN2/5K2/B7 w - - 0 1
wKf2,Qf5,Nf3,h4,Ba1,Rd7,Pa3,c4,e3,e5,f4/
bKg8,Qa8,Na6,c7,Rb3,f8,Pa4,c5,f7,g7,h6

Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan, Poland, 1961 1-0 * (if anybody has the
complete game please post here)


Very hard to find - seems like the national championship was in Poznan
in 1962, the Junior in Poznan 1961. I spent half an hour googling for
variants of Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan 1961.

No result, though many pages requesting 'translation into English'

Wouldn't it be good if someone here could set up a site and then
accept diagrams for discussion? Diagrams are easy to make and
transcendent of media.

Anyway, good luck searching for the full game score.

Phil

Above is the most amazing finish (and blown win) I've seen in years.
It's exercise Diagram 150 from the excellent book "Test Your Tactical
Ability" by Yakov Neishtadt (1981, Batsford).

The author wrongly claims that a cascade of spectacular sacrifices
wins for White by forced mate, starting with 1.Ng5! (???--RL) hg 2.
Ng6! fg 3. Rxg7! Kxg7 (???--RL, instead Kh8! wins for black) 4.e6+ and
White won says Neishtadt.

I always double check my answers with Fritz when I got this one wrong
I checked my answer with Fritz's and found it was the same (1.e6, Ne6
2.Qe6 +- 1.66 Fritz). *Then I checked the proposed (and actually
played) moves, and found they lose, but in a spectacular way:

After the correct 3...Kh8! (not Kxg7, a forced win for white), there
is a very nice line for black that is not at all obvious he

1.Ng5 hg 2. Ng6 fg 3. Rg7 Kh8 4. Qg6 (Rf7 is loses slower for white, -
+2.66)

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: *4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! *Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.

I nominate this game as the best finish I've ever seen. *You also know
it wasn't a staged game, since the players did not play the proposed
finish (or if they staged it, they did not see the above line).

Any disagreements? *If you don't like this game you should tip your
King and resign from playing chess again!

RL


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Old December 28th 09, 09:52 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On 28 Dec, 15:12, RayLopez99 wrote:
*q4rk1/2nR1pp1/n6p/2p1PQ2/p1P2P1N/Pr2PN2/5K2/B7 w - - 0 1
wKf2,Qf5,Nf3,h4,Ba1,Rd7,Pa3,c4,e3,e5,f4/
bKg8,Qa8,Na6,c7,Rb3,f8,Pa4,c5,f7,g7,h6

Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan, Poland, 1961 1-0 * (if anybody has the
complete game please post here)

Above is the most amazing finish (and blown win) I've seen in years.
It's exercise Diagram 150 from the excellent book "Test Your Tactical
Ability" by Yakov Neishtadt (1981, Batsford).

The author wrongly claims that a cascade of spectacular sacrifices
wins for White by forced mate, starting with 1.Ng5! (???--RL) hg 2.
Ng6! fg 3. Rxg7! Kxg7 (???--RL, instead Kh8! wins for black) 4.e6+ and
White won says Neishtadt.

I always double check my answers with Fritz when I got this one wrong
I checked my answer with Fritz's and found it was the same (1.e6, Ne6
2.Qe6 +- 1.66 Fritz). *Then I checked the proposed (and actually
played) moves, and found they lose, but in a spectacular way:

After the correct 3...Kh8! (not Kxg7, a forced win for white), there
is a very nice line for black that is not at all obvious he

1.Ng5 hg 2. Ng6 fg 3. Rg7 Kh8 4. Qg6 (Rf7 is loses slower for white, -
+2.66)

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: *4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! *Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.


Haven't got any software to check this: what does Black do against
4.Qxg5 ?
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Old December 29th 09, 04:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 28, 4:52*pm, "Andrew B." wrote:

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: *4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! *Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.


Haven't got any software to check this: what does Black do against
4.Qxg5 ?


Good one Andrew B, if you did this from memory. Fritz says Black
still wins, because of this line:

4. Qxg5 Qh1 5. Rxg6 Qh2+ 6. Kf3 Qh3+ then Qf1+ (or I would trade
queens, still ahead -4.00), etc. -7.00

if 6. Qg2, Rxf4! (the rook cannot be captured since it's mate in 6).

RL





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Old December 29th 09, 04:51 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On 29 Dec, 16:06, RayLopez99 wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:52*pm, "Andrew B." wrote:

All hope seems lost for black in this line, as white threatens mate in
one with no clear way out for black, until this seeming spite check is
found: *4...Rf4+!! which leads to a mate in five! *Also nice in most
of these lines is the problem like self-blocking move Ne6 by black,
which forces white to capture on e6 and thereby block its own pawn.


Haven't got any software to check this: what does Black do against
4.Qxg5 ?


Good one Andrew B, if you did this from memory. *Fritz says Black
still wins, because of this line:

4. Qxg5 Qh1 5. Rxg6 Qh2+ 6. Kf3 Qh3+ * then Qf1+ (or I would trade
queens, still ahead -4.00), etc. -7.00

if 6. Qg2, Rxf4! (the rook cannot be captured since it's mate in 6).

RL


Thanks - I thought that 4....Rxf4+ and 4....Kxg7 didn't work, but
overlooked 4....Qh1!
Very interesting position.
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Old December 29th 09, 05:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 29, 11:51*am, "Andrew B." wrote:
Thanks - I thought that 4....Rxf4+ and 4....Kxg7 didn't work, but
overlooked 4....Qh1!
Very interesting position.


Yes, I thought so. I don't see these kind of busts that often--a rule
of thumb is that two piece sac is rare, but here, a three piece sac,
is as rare as hen's teeth or unsound (as is the case here).

RL

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Old December 29th 09, 09:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On 28 Dec, 15:12, RayLopez99 wrote:
*q4rk1/2nR1pp1/n6p/2p1PQ2/p1P2P1N/Pr2PN2/5K2/B7 w - - 0 1
wKf2,Qf5,Nf3,h4,Ba1,Rd7,Pa3,c4,e3,e5,f4/
bKg8,Qa8,Na6,c7,Rb3,f8,Pa4,c5,f7,g7,h6

Grinshpan-Kaminsky, Poznan, Poland, 1961 1-0 * (if anybody has the
complete game please post here)


Why not ask Edward Winter at Chess Notes? Since this involves trying
to find a missing game score to a position with a dramatic tactical
finish and shows an error in a book, it sounds right up his street :-)
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Old December 30th 09, 08:00 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 29, 4:23*pm, "Andrew B." wrote:


Why not ask Edward Winter at Chess Notes? Since this involves trying
to find a missing game score to a position with a dramatic tactical
finish and shows an error in a book, it sounds right up his street :-)


Well I hope he's reading this...and if so he'll respond.

RL

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Old December 30th 09, 09:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Most spectacular blown win (and problem like finish) I've everseen

On Dec 30, 3:00*pm, raylopez99 wrote:
On Dec 29, 4:23*pm, "Andrew B." wrote:



Why not ask Edward Winter at Chess Notes? Since this involves trying
to find a missing game score to a position with a dramatic tactical
finish and shows an error in a book, it sounds right up his street :-)


Well I hope he's reading this...and if so he'll respond.


I've never known Winter to post on this newsgroup, and I doubt he
reads it much, if at all. Decades ago he used to post on a group
called Leisure Linc, but that's about the extent of his online
arguing, as far as I know with respect to chess. I would suggest
writing to him directly. If he does not know the actual provenance of
the game, he may post a request for help on Chess Notes.
Both Rybka 3 UCI and Fritz8 agree with Ray's analysis of the
position.
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