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Old June 9th 10, 05:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

Neil McDonald in his book Positional Sacrifices p. 20 says the below
game should be included among Capa's greatest games, but most
commentators, including the UK lawyer Golombek (who comes across as a
bit opinionated) say it's a blunder, and therefore don't include this
game as one of Capablanca's 100 Best Games (in a book by that title).

But Fritz 5.3x tends to agree with McDonald. And Capa won the pawn
back with interest later.

A good example of a positional move, since it was not a clear
combination.

RL

[Event "St Petersburg preliminary"]
[Site "St Petersburg"]
[Date "1914.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nimzowitsch, Aaron"]
[Black "Capablanca, Jose Raul"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C62"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "1914.04.21"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "RUS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1998.04.09"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 d6 5. d4 Bd7 6. Bxc6 Bxc6 7. Qd3
exd4 8.
Nxd4 g6 9. Nxc6 bxc6 10. Qa6 Qd7 11. Qb7 Rc8 12. Qxa7 Bg7 13. O-O O-O
14. Qa6
Rfe8 15. Qd3 Qe6 16. f3 Nd7 17. Bd2 Ne5 18. Qe2 Nc4 19. Rab1 Ra8 20.
a4 Nxd2
21. Qxd2 Qc4 22. Rfd1 Reb8 23. Qe3 Rb4 24. Qg5 Bd4+ 25. Kh1 Rab8 26.
Rxd4 Qxd4
27. Rd1 Qc4 28. h4 Rxb2 29. Qd2 Qc5 30. Re1 Qh5 31. Ra1 Qxh4+ 32. Kg1
Qh5 33.
a5 Ra8 34. a6 Qc5+ 35. Kh1 Qc4 36. a7 Qc5 37. e5 Qxe5 38. Ra4 Qh5+ 39.
Kg1 Qc5+
40. Kh2 d5 41. Rh4 Rxa7 42. Nd1 0-1

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Old June 9th 10, 10:29 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

8...g6 was a mistake. It gave up a pawn for very little.

Later on, white made a mistake with 15.Qd3.
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Old June 9th 10, 10:37 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

The great Alekhine showed how to annihilate 8...g6:

[Event "pre-A"]
[Site "Kecskemet"]
[Date "1927.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Alexander Alekhine"]
[Black "Alfred Brinckmann"]
[ECO "C62"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "67"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bxc6
Bxc6 7. Qd3 exd4 8. Nxd4 g6 9. Bg5 Bg7 10. O-O-O Qd7 11. h3
O-O 12. Rhe1 Rfe8 13. Qf3 Nh5 14. g4 Bxd4 15. Rxd4 Ng7 16. Bf6
Re6 17. Rdd1 Ne8 18. Bd4 Qe7 19. Re3 Ng7 20. Qf4 Qh4 21. Rde1
Rae8 22. b3 a5 23. a4 b6 24. Kb2 R8e7 25. Qh2 Ne8 26. f4 Nf6
27. f5 Rxe4 28. Nxe4 Nxe4 29. Qf4 g5 30. Qf1 d5 31. c4 Qh6
32. f6 Re8 33. cxd5 Bxd5 34. Qf5 1-0
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Old June 9th 10, 11:30 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 9, 12:07*pm, raylopez99 wrote:
Neil McDonald in his book Positional Sacrifices p. 20 says the below
game should be included among Capa's greatest games, but most
commentators, including the UK lawyer Golombek (who comes across as a
bit opinionated) say it's a blunder, and therefore don't include this
game as one of Capablanca's 100 Best Games (in a book by that title).

But Fritz 5.3x tends to agree with McDonald. *And Capa won the pawn
back with interest later.

A good example of a positional move, since it was not a clear
combination.

RL

[Event "St Petersburg preliminary"]
[Site "St Petersburg"]
[Date "1914.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nimzowitsch, Aaron"]
[Black "Capablanca, Jose Raul"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C62"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "1914.04.21"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "RUS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1998.04.09"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 d6 5. d4 Bd7 6. Bxc6 Bxc6 7. Qd3
exd4 8.
Nxd4 g6 9. Nxc6 bxc6 10. Qa6 Qd7 11. Qb7 Rc8 12. Qxa7 Bg7 13. O-O O-O
14. Qa6
Rfe8 15. Qd3 Qe6 16. f3 Nd7 17. Bd2 Ne5 18. Qe2 Nc4 19. Rab1 Ra8 20.
a4 Nxd2
21. Qxd2 Qc4 22. Rfd1 Reb8 23. Qe3 Rb4 24. Qg5 Bd4+ 25. Kh1 Rab8 26.
Rxd4 Qxd4
27. Rd1 Qc4 28. h4 Rxb2 29. Qd2 Qc5 30. Re1 Qh5 31. Ra1 Qxh4+ 32. Kg1
Qh5 33.
a5 Ra8 34. a6 Qc5+ 35. Kh1 Qc4 36. a7 Qc5 37. e5 Qxe5 38. Ra4 Qh5+ 39.
Kg1 Qc5+
40. Kh2 d5 41. Rh4 Rxa7 42. Nd1 0-1


On CB's MegaDatabase 2005, Kasparov comments:

"8...g6?! Inviting White to win a pawn. Black gets excellent
compensation for it, but still it was a very risky decision if White
simply continues his development with 9.Bg5. But Nimzowitsch couldn't
resist the temptation."

After Black's 13th move, GK continues:

"A healthy, extra pawn and no obvious threats - what else could White
wish? We can hardly criticise Nimzowitsch for not catching on to
Capablanca's very profound concept, which was truly amazing for the
beginning of the 20th century. But today any strong player will know
that the combined pressure on the a- and b-files, as well as on the e4
pawn, supported by the super-powerful bishop on g7, at least
guarantees Black full compensation."

So it would seem that Capablanca was indeed ahead of his time,
executing a positional strategy that, as far as I recall, would not be
well understood until the advent of the Benko Gambit in the 1960s.
However, it does appear that the specific move 8...g6 in this game is
a mistake, as Alekhine later demonstrated. Thus it could be said that
McDonald and Golombek were both correct in different ways.
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Old June 10th 10, 11:08 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 10, 1:30*am, Taylor Kingston
wrote:


* On CB's MegaDatabase 2005, Kasparov comments:

"8...g6?! Inviting White to win a pawn. Black gets excellent
compensation for it, but still it was a very risky decision if White
simply continues his development with 9.Bg5. But Nimzowitsch couldn't
resist the temptation."

* After Black's 13th *move, GK continues:

"A healthy, extra pawn and no obvious threats - what else could White
wish? We can hardly criticise Nimzowitsch for not catching on to
Capablanca's very profound concept, which was truly amazing for the
beginning of the 20th century. But today any strong player will know
that the combined pressure on the a- and b-files, as well as on the e4
pawn, supported by the super-powerful bishop on g7, at least
guarantees Black full compensation."


Wow that's pretty subtle analysis by Kasparov. Thanks to Offramp for
finding the Alekhine 'refutation' of sorts.

RL


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Old June 10th 10, 11:13 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 10, 12:37*am, Offramp wrote:
The great Alekhine showed how to annihilate 8...g6:

[Event "pre-A"]
[Site "Kecskemet"]
[Date "1927.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Alexander Alekhine"]
[Black "Alfred Brinckmann"]
[ECO "C62"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "67"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bxc6
Bxc6 7. Qd3 exd4 8. Nxd4 g6 9. Bg5 Bg7 10. O-O-O Qd7 11. h3
O-O 12. Rhe1 Rfe8 13. Qf3 Nh5 14. g4 Bxd4 15. Rxd4 Ng7 16. Bf6
Re6 17. Rdd1 Ne8 18. Bd4 Qe7 19. Re3 Ng7 20. Qf4 Qh4 21. Rde1
Rae8 22. b3 a5 23. a4 b6 24. Kb2 R8e7 25. Qh2 Ne8 26. f4 Nf6
27. f5 Rxe4 28. Nxe4 Nxe4 29. Qf4 g5 30. Qf1 d5 31. c4 Qh6
32. f6 Re8 33. cxd5 Bxd5 34. Qf5 1-0


Just played this game. Idiot, this game did NOT show the Capa game.
I wasted my time. Black LOST you fool.
Sorry I praised you in my earlier post to TK--I was premature.

Praise RETRACTED you fool.

RL
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Old June 10th 10, 02:33 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 10, 6:13*am, raylopez99 wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:37*am, Offramp wrote:





The great Alekhine showed how to annihilate 8...g6:


[Event "pre-A"]
[Site "Kecskemet"]
[Date "1927.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Alexander Alekhine"]
[Black "Alfred Brinckmann"]
[ECO "C62"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "67"]


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bxc6
Bxc6 7. Qd3 exd4 8. Nxd4 g6 9. Bg5 Bg7 10. O-O-O Qd7 11. h3
O-O 12. Rhe1 Rfe8 13. Qf3 Nh5 14. g4 Bxd4 15. Rxd4 Ng7 16. Bf6
Re6 17. Rdd1 Ne8 18. Bd4 Qe7 19. Re3 Ng7 20. Qf4 Qh4 21. Rde1
Rae8 22. b3 a5 23. a4 b6 24. Kb2 R8e7 25. Qh2 Ne8 26. f4 Nf6
27. f5 Rxe4 28. Nxe4 Nxe4 29. Qf4 g5 30. Qf1 d5 31. c4 Qh6
32. f6 Re8 33. cxd5 Bxd5 34. Qf5 1-0


Just played this game. *Idiot, this game did NOT show the Capa game.


Of course it's not Nimzovich-Capablanca, it's Alekhine-Brinckmann,
as Offramp clearly stated. The point is that the two games reach
exactly the same position after 8...g6. That's called TRANSPOSITION,
Ray, in case you did not know. At that critical point, where Nimzovich
mistakenly grabbed the pawn with 9.Nxc6?! etc., Alekhine instead
showed the refutation with 9.Bg5!. This is crucial to the question you
asked, whether 8...g6 was a good move or bad.

I wasted my time. *Black LOST you fool.


Of course he lost. 8...g6 was a mistake, which White refuted.

Sorry I praised you in my earlier post to TK--I was premature.

Praise RETRACTED you fool.


Ray, are you nuts? Offramp kindly did you a favor, providing another
game very relevant to the very question you asked. Kasparov himself
cited the Alekhine game in his comments. Talk about biting the hand
that feeds you! You owe Alan a contrite apology.

Ray, I must ask: are you as cloddish, boorish, insolent, puerile and
arrogant in person as you are on newsgroups?
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Old June 10th 10, 07:32 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 9, 6:30*pm, Taylor Kingston
wrote:
But today any strong player will know

that the combined pressure on the a- and b-files, as well as on the e4
pawn, supported by the super-powerful bishop on g7, at least
guarantees Black full compensation."

* So it would seem that Capablanca was indeed ahead of his time,


Quite a few strong players think Capablanca simply blundered the
pawn. It's not in his style and despite this success he didn't play
similar moves later. In his annotations he called it a "spur of the
moment idea" but it's not clear whether he is simply referring to the
fianchetto or the pawn sacrifice.

Shereshevsky has looked at this position thoroughly. A dedicated
Benko gambit player, he doesn't think black has enough, but argues
that by Qd3 Nimzowitsch freed Capablanca from having to awkwardly
defend his c6 pawn.

If it was a blunder which went on to win brilliantly, it is in good
company. Cohn won a brilliancy price for a pawn "sacrifice" against
Tchigorin. He wisely waited until after he pocketed the prize to let
people know he'd blundered the pawn, then played aggressively to make
up for the loss.

William Hyde


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Old June 10th 10, 08:42 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 10, 8:33*am, Taylor Kingston
wrote:

* Ray, I must ask: are you as cloddish, boorish, insolent, puerile and
arrogant in person as you are on newsgroups?


He'd get beat up a lot if he was.

It's too bad, as the discussion is otherwise very interesting.

Surely, Winter, the Capablanca expert, has said something about this?

SBD

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Old June 10th 10, 09:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Capablanca's move 8...g6? or 8...g6!! against Nimzowitsch 1914?

On Jun 10, 3:42*pm, sd wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:33*am, Taylor Kingston
wrote:



* Ray, I must ask: are you as cloddish, boorish, insolent, puerile and
arrogant in person as you are on newsgroups?


He'd get beat up a lot if he was.


That would not surprise me at all. Some immature types who are far
too cowardly to do it in person get a kick out of childish mouthing-
off behind an online mask.

It's too bad, as the discussion is otherwise very interesting.

Surely, Winter, the Capablanca expert, has said something about this?


Apparently not. A search of the Chess Notes website turns up nothing
relevant, and the game is not mentioned in Winter's monograph
"Capablanca" (1989). Nor is it in Reinfeld's "The Immortal Games of
Capablanca" (1942). The only book I have where it's annotated is
Capa's own "My Chess Career" (1920). Of 8...g6, he wrote only this:

"A novel idea, brought out on the spur of the moment, with the
intention of putting White on his own resources and out of the normal
forms of this defence with which Niemzowitch is very familiar."
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