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Old June 15th 10, 05:13 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

Position below. Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.

Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. Hint in title.

RL

r2q1rk1/2p1b1pn/p1n4p/1p1p1N2/8/2PP1p1P/PPB2PP1/R1BQR1K1 w - - 0 17

[Event "Rated game, 5m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2010.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ray"]
[Black "Orthago"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C70"]
[WhiteElo "1696"]
[BlackElo "1608"]
[PlyCount "36"]
[EventDate "2010.06.15"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 b5 5. Bb3 Be7 6. c3 d6 7. h3 Be6
8. Bc2 h6
9. O-O Nf6 10. d3 O-O 11. Re1 Nh7 12. Nbd2 f5 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Ne4 d5
15. Ng3
e4 16. Nxf5 exf3 17. Nxe7+ Qxe7 18. Rxe7 Nxe7 1-0
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Old June 15th 10, 06:28 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 12:13*pm, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. *Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.

Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. *Hint in title.

RL

r2q1rk1/2p1b1pn/p1n4p/1p1p1N2/8/2PP1p1P/PPB2PP1/R1BQR1K1 w - - 0 17

[Event "Rated game, 5m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2010.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ray"]
[Black "Orthago"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C70"]
[WhiteElo "1696"]
[BlackElo "1608"]
[PlyCount "36"]
[EventDate "2010.06.15"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 b5 5. Bb3 Be7 6. c3 d6 7. h3 Be6
8. Bc2 h6
9. O-O Nf6 10. d3 O-O 11. Re1 Nh7 12. Nbd2 f5 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Ne4 d5
15. Ng3
e4 16. Nxf5 exf3 17. Nxe7+ Qxe7 18. Rxe7 Nxe7 1-0


Best was the rather obvious 17.Qxf3. In the composer's sense of the
term it's not a self-pin; that requires that the pinned piece be
shielding the king. Even accepting a broader definition, 17.Qd1xf3 is
not so much a self-pin as just a simple recapture. The pin of the Nf5
by the Rf8 cannot be exploited if 17...g6? 18.Qg3, Qg4, Re6, Nxe7+
or Nxh6+; if 17...Qd7? 18.d4 or 18.Nxe7+ and if 17...Kh8 then simply
18.Qg4 and there's no more pin.
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Old June 15th 10, 07:25 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2005
Posts: 292
Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.

Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. Hint in title.


Do you mean 17. Qxf3? That's an obvious move.

r2q1rk1/2p1b1pn/p1n4p/1p1p1N2/8/2PP1p1P/PPB2PP1/R1BQR1K1 w - - 0 17

[Event "Rated game, 5m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2010.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ray"]
[Black "Orthago"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C70"]
[WhiteElo "1696"]
[BlackElo "1608"]
[PlyCount "36"]
[EventDate "2010.06.15"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 b5 5. Bb3 Be7 6. c3 d6 7. h3 Be6
8. Bc2 h6
9. O-O Nf6 10. d3 O-O 11. Re1 Nh7 12. Nbd2 f5 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Ne4 d5
15. Ng3
e4 16. Nxf5 exf3 17. Nxe7+ Qxe7 18. Rxe7 Nxe7 1-0



--
Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com
Author: =======================
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Old June 15th 10, 07:51 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 9:25*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:
On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. *Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. *Hint in title.


* *Do you mean 17. Qxf3? *That's an obvious move.


Why is it obvious? 17. d4 is ranked equal by Fritz and is a much more
'natural' move. Recall TK did not capture an obvious knight on f6
because he was afraid of complications. You would capture Qxf3? In
blitz? I find that hard to believe, especially with your stagnant and
conservative chess style, as evidenced by your Elo rating not moving
much.

RL
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Old June 15th 10, 08:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Posts: 292
Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:25?pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:
On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. ?Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. ?Hint in title.


? ?Do you mean 17. Qxf3? ?That's an obvious move.


Why is it obvious?


Because I know how to play chess.

I don't see anything difficult about it. (And I don't do any
analysis with chess software.)

17. d4 is ranked equal by Fritz and is a much more 'natural' move.
Recall TK did not capture an obvious knight on f6 because he was
afraid of complications. You would capture Qxf3? In blitz? I find
that hard to believe, especially with your stagnant and conservative
chess style, as evidenced by your Elo rating not moving much.


I don't consider my style "stagnant and conservative". Have you
looked at any of my games?

--
Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com
Author: =======================
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


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Old June 15th 10, 08:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 2:51*pm, raylopez99 wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:25*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:

On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. *Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. *Hint in title.


* *Do you mean 17. Qxf3? *That's an obvious move.


Why is it obvious? 17. d4 is ranked equal by Fritz and is a much more
'natural' move. *


I would hardly call 17.d4 more natural than 17.Qxf3; recapturing is
usually the natural thing. Natural or not, In this case 17.d4 may
actually be the stronger move, especially if Black then plays the
natural-looking 17...fxg7(?). Then White has 18.Qd3! threatening
19.Nxh6+ gxh6 20.Qxh7#. If 18...Nf6 19.Nxh6+! is deadly, viz.
19...gxh6 20.Qg6+ Kh8 21.Qxh6+ Kg8 22.Qg6+ Kh8 23.Bg5 Qd7 24.Bf5+-.
Black would therefore have to play 18...Rf6, losing a piece to
19.Nxe7+ Nxe7 20.Qxh7+.

Recall TK did not capture an obvious knight on f6
because he was afraid of complications.


Not so much that, as I clearly saw a simple winning continuation
that was without complications. When one clearly sees a forced winning
line, there's no point in risking an alternative one cannot evaluate
as clearly. This was a lesson I learned way back from the great teach
Chernev.

*You would capture Qxf3? *In
blitz? *I find that hard to believe, especially with your stagnant and
conservative chess style, as evidenced by your Elo rating not moving
much.


Ah, our Ray is tacful as ever.
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Old June 15th 10, 08:59 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On 2010-06-15, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:51?pm, raylopez99 wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:25?pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:

On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. ?Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. ?Hint in title.


? ?Do you mean 17. Qxf3? ?That's an obvious move.


Why is it obvious? 17. d4 is ranked equal by Fritz and is a much more
'natural' move. ?


I would hardly call 17.d4 more natural than 17.Qxf3; recapturing is
usually the natural thing. Natural or not, In this case 17.d4 may
actually be the stronger move, especially if Black then plays the
natural-looking 17...fxg7(?). Then White has 18.Qd3! threatening
19.Nxh6+ gxh6 20.Qxh7#. If 18...Nf6 19.Nxh6+! is deadly, viz.
19...gxh6 20.Qg6+ Kh8 21.Qxh6+ Kg8 22.Qg6+ Kh8 23.Bg5 Qd7 24.Bf5+-.
Black would therefore have to play 18...Rf6, losing a piece to
19.Nxe7+ Nxe7 20.Qxh7+.


If I were in that position, I'd have 3 candidate moves and two or
three others I'd have glanced at and discarded.

I'd have glanced at a sac on h6 and quickly discarded it.

I'd go into more depth on Nxe7+, Qxf3 and d4. After deciding that
d4 required a lot of non-obvious analysis, I'd consider the other
two.

Nxe7 looks all right, but I don't like Black's eventual fxg2, or
the alternative of my capturing gxf3.

Qxf3 looks good with relatively straightforward analysis. It
prevents my K-side pawn being broken up and I couldn't see any
drawbacks to it.

So, even though d4 may be objectively stronger, I'd have given
preference to the other two, and probably have decided on Qxf3.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com
Author: =======================
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Old June 15th 10, 09:09 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 3:59*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:
On 2010-06-15, Taylor Kingston wrote:





On Jun 15, 2:51?pm, raylopez99 wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:25?pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:


On 2010-06-15, raylopez99 wrote:
Position below. ?Game that followed from this position, at move 17,
also below.


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. ?Hint in title.


? ?Do you mean 17. Qxf3? ?That's an obvious move.


Why is it obvious? 17. d4 is ranked equal by Fritz and is a much more
'natural' move. ?


* I would hardly call 17.d4 more natural than 17.Qxf3; recapturing is
usually the natural thing. Natural or not, In this case 17.d4 may
actually be the stronger move, especially if Black then plays the
natural-looking 17...fxg7(?). Then White has 18.Qd3! threatening
19.Nxh6+ gxh6 20.Qxh7#. If 18...Nf6 19.Nxh6+! is deadly, viz.
19...gxh6 20.Qg6+ Kh8 21.Qxh6+ Kg8 22.Qg6+ Kh8 23.Bg5 Qd7 24.Bf5+-.
Black would therefore have to play 18...Rf6, losing a piece to
19.Nxe7+ Nxe7 20.Qxh7+.


* *If I were in that position, I'd have 3 candidate moves and two or
* *three others I'd have glanced at and discarded.

* *I'd have glanced at a sac on h6 and quickly discarded it.

* *I'd go into more depth on Nxe7+, Qxf3 and d4. After deciding that
* *d4 required a lot of non-obvious analysis, I'd consider the other
* *two.

* *Nxe7 looks all right, but I don't like Black's eventual fxg2, or
* *the alternative of my capturing gxf3.

* *Qxf3 looks good with relatively straightforward analysis. It
* *prevents my K-side pawn being broken up and I couldn't see any
* *drawbacks to it.

* *So, even though d4 may be objectively stronger, I'd have given
* *preference to the other two, and probably have decided on Qxf3.


I agree; on practical grounds 17.Qxf3 does seem most natural and
expedient. I merely wanted to present some analysis of 17.d4.

--
* *Chris F.A. Johnson * * * * * * * * * * * * *http://cfajohnson.com
* *Author: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * =======================
* *Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
* *Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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Old June 15th 10, 11:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 11:13*am, raylopez99 wrote:


Though I won, thanks to Black's blunder, the best move you probably
will never guess without computer help--at least it seems
counterintuitive to me. .


That's kind of the point, isn't it? To a patzer such as yourself, good
moves are counterintuitive.

Gauging the safety of Qxf3 takes but a few seconds. Less time looking
at computer analysis might help your game by encouraging you to think
for yourself.

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Old June 15th 10, 11:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Find the best move for white: a self-pin!

On Jun 15, 10:21*pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson"
wrote:

* *I don't consider my style "stagnant and conservative". Have you
* *looked at any of my games?

--


No, please post some.

RL
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