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Old October 16th 10, 11:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title game of1931 a joke

From the book by Soltis, "Soviet Chess". This "gem" (not) decided the
Seventh Soviet Championship in Moscow in 1931. Botvinnik finished a
point behind Kasparyan of Armenia, who had black below in the title
game.

But Botvinnik's suggestion of 14...Ng4 followed by ...f5-f4 instead of
14. Qf5 (which Soltis unfairly gives a ? to) is a bust, and the so-
called "brilliant" move of 19...Nxf2!! is instead, says Fritz, more
like ??, a blunder if white accepts the sacrifice. Instead, white
freaked out, declined the sac, and got beat.

If this is the standard of play of these old masters, then indeed Phil
Innes could indeed beat Morphy...and so could I.

Some real stinkers were played in the old days.

RL

[Event "Seventh Soviet Championship"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1931.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Lisitsyn, Georgy"]
[Black "Kasparyan, Genrikh"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A15"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[SourceDate "2010.10.17"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. b3 Bg7 4. Bb2 O-O 5. g3 d6 6. Bg2 Bd7 7. O-O
Qc8 8. Re1
Bh3 9. Bh1 e5 10. Nc3 Bh6 11. d3 Nc6 12. a3 Qd7 13. Qc2 Rae8 14. Rad1
Qf5 (
14... Ng4 15. Bc1 Bxc1 16. Qxc1 f5 $2) 15. Nd5 Ng4 16. Nxc7 Nd4 17.
Bxd4 exd4
18. Nxe8 Rxe8 19. Bg2 Nxf2 20. Nh4 $6 (20. Kxf2 Be3+ 21. Kf1 h5 22. b4
h4 23.
Qa4 Rc8 24. Qb5 $18) 20... Qg4 21. Bf3 Qe6 22. Rf1 Nxd1 23. Rxd1 Qe3+
24. Kh1
Qf2 25. Rg1 g5 26. Qc1 Re6 27. Ng2 g4 28. Rf1 0-1


4r1k1/pp3p1p/3p2pb/5q2/2Pp2n1/PP1P1NPb/2Q1PPBP/3RR1K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Fritz 9:

1. +- (1.41): 19...Bxg2 20.Kxg2 Be3 21.Rf1 Bxf2 22.Qb2 f6 23.b4 Qe6
2. +- (2.79): 19...Qh5 20.Qb2 b6 21.b4 a6 22.a4 Bg7 23.Ra1 Bxg2
24.Kxg2 d5 25.h3 Ne5 26.Nxe5
3. +- (3.30): 19...Nxf2 20.Kxf2 Be3+ 21.Kf1 Re6 22.Rb1 Rf6 23.Qd1 Qe6
24.b4 d5 25.cxd5 Bxg2+ 26.Kxg2 Qxd5
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Old October 17th 10, 12:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 16, 5:31*pm, raylopez99 wrote:

3. +- *(3.30): 19...Nxf2 20.Kxf2 Be3+ 21.Kf1 Re6 22.Rb1 Rf6 23.Qd1 Qe6
24.b4 d5 25.cxd5 Bxg2+ 26.Kxg2 Qxd5


23. Qd1? Qh5! 0-1 idea of Bc8 and Qxh2. White is mated in any case.

You may want to spend more time on this, The sac looks like it has a
lot more to it than a superficial analysis will allow.


SBD

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Old October 17th 10, 02:06 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 16, 6:31*pm, raylopez99 wrote:

If this is the standard of play of these old masters, then indeed Phil
Innes could indeed beat Morphy...and so could I.



You obviously know *nothing* about the capabilities -- or rather,
the
lack thereof -- of Phil Innes. Morphy would have happily given
Innes
two-pawns-and-move odds, and then thrashed him like a field of hay.


Some real stinkers were played in the old days.



And nothing has changed in this regard. Several months ago I
discussed an example of a player with the GM title who, first move
out of book in a Caro-Kann, blundered in such a way as to make
you wonder if he were not an imposter who had tied up the real GM
and left him in the skittles room closet! More recently, not one
but
TWO very high rated GMs lost theoretically drawn rook endings to
Magnus Carlsen, and they managed this feat by playing as if they
knew everything about the openings but little or nothing about basic
chess endings. This just goes to show what can happen when a
player -- even a FIDE 2700 player -- has serious weaknesses in his
game, obscured by the fact that the opening and middlegame
always come first.
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Old October 17th 10, 02:08 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 16, 7:44*pm, sd wrote:

You may want to spend more time on this, The sac looks like it has a
lot more to it than a superficial analysis will allow.



If superficiality is inadequate, then 'Ray' is uhh, not the right
guy
for the job.



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Old October 17th 10, 11:42 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 17, 4:06*am, The Master wrote:


* And nothing has changed in this regard. * *Several months ago I
discussed an example of a player with the GM title who, first move
out of book in a Caro-Kann, blundered in such a way as to make
you wonder if he were not an imposter who had tied up the real GM
and left him in the skittles room closet! *


Can you repost this, in this thread? I'd like to see those games.

TWO very high rated GMs lost theoretically drawn rook endings to
Magnus Carlsen, and they managed this feat by playing as if they
knew everything about the openings but little or nothing about basic
chess endings. * This just goes to show what can happen when a
player -- even a FIDE 2700 player -- has serious weaknesses in his
game, obscured by the fact that the opening and middlegame
always come first.


Can you repost this, in this thread? I'd like to see those games.

RL


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Old October 17th 10, 11:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 17, 2:44*am, sd wrote:
On Oct 16, 5:31*pm, raylopez99 wrote:

3. +- *(3.30): 19...Nxf2 20.Kxf2 Be3+ 21.Kf1 Re6 22.Rb1 Rf6 23.Qd1 Qe6
24.b4 d5 25.cxd5 Bxg2+ 26.Kxg2 Qxd5


23. Qd1? Qh5! 0-1 idea of Bc8 and Qxh2. White is mated in any case.

You may want to spend more time on this, The sac looks like it has a
lot more to it than a superficial analysis will allow.

SBD


You may want to post your analysis here, proving your point. I've
made mine. And no, please don't email me another one of your nasty
emails Dr. Fart. You're one of the few people that bothers to email
me, besides some prince in Nigeria.

Your superior,

Ray
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Old October 17th 10, 12:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 17, 5:44*am, raylopez99 wrote:

You may want to post your analysis here, proving your point. *I've
made mine.


My point has been made; give any decent engine enough time, and in
your line 3 that has the sacrifice, after 23. Qd1 Qh5!, it will see
that white is mated.

If you want to examine the full effects of the sacrifice, you should
take the time to analyze it thoroughly. But if you don't, it makes no
difference to me. I am not here to do your homework.

SBD
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Old October 17th 10, 03:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 17, 7:07*am, sd wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:44*am, raylopez99 wrote:

You may want to post your analysis here, proving your point. *I've
made mine.


My point has been made; give any decent engine enough time, and in
your line 3 that has the sacrifice, after 23. Qd1 Qh5!, it will see
that white is mated.

If you want to examine the full effects of the sacrifice, you should
take the time to analyze it thoroughly. But if you don't, it makes no
difference to me. I am not here to do your homework.


Steve, you should know by now that our Ray will never learn. He only
wants analysis that supports his masturbatory fantasies, rather than
detemining the truth. In this game, the truth lies quite a bit deeper
than he wants to dig. Here are the most important lines, per Rybka:

A) Concerning Botvinnik's recommended 14...N4, to be followed
by ...f7-f5-f4, that is Rybka's #1 line too.

B) The 19...Nxf2 sac does indeed deserve the "!!" Soltis gave it. A
human player can make this sort of sac intuitvely, based on the fact
that after 20.Kxf2 Be3+ 21.Kf1 the white king is hemmed in not only by
the cross-firing black bishops, but by his own pieces. White's only
escape route is toward the queenside, via e1-d1-c2 etc., but to get
the king there he first has to move every one of his major pieces out
of the way. That takes time, and meanwhile Black can pry open the
kingside and pillage it. Illustrative lines:

B1) Lopez's 21...Re6 22.Rb1 Rf6 23.Qd1, which he says Fritz rates at
+3.30, quickly goes the other way after Dowd's 23...Qh5! (instead of
Ray's incomprehensible 23...Qe6?). After 23...Qh5 Rybka's top 10 white
possibilities range in evaluation from about -7.55 to mate in 3.

B2) However, even better than 21...Re6 is 21...h5!, as noted by
Soltis in "Soviet Chess." This pawn is the kingside can-opener. Soltis
gives two main variations:
B2a) 22.Ra1 h4 23.Reb1 hxg3 24.hxg3 Qg4 — Rybka says 24...Kg7
intending 25...Rh8 is even stronger. — 25.Ke1 — If 25.Bxh3 Qxh3+
26.Ke1 Qh1+ 27.Ng1 Qxg1# — 25...Bxg2 26.Kd1 Qxg3 27.Ne1 Bf1 intending
28...Bf2 and white is ruined.
B2b) 22.c5 h4 23.Qc4 (if 23.cxd6 hxg3 24.hxg3 Rc8 25.Qb2 Qg4 and
mate in six) 23...hxg3 24.hxg3 Qg4 25.Ng1 Qxg3 26.Nxh3 Re5 intending
27...Rf5+, and mate is inevitable.
B2c) A line Soltis did not give, but is Rybka's preferred defense,
is the odd-looking 22.b4!? h4 23.Qa4 — The point of the previous move:
the queen gets out of the way with tempo by attacking the rook. The
reprieve is only temporary, however. — 23...Re5 24.Ra1 hxg3 25.hxg3
Kg7! — Not 25...Qg4? 26.Nxe5 dxe5 27.Qe8+ Kg7 28.Qxe5+ with perpetual
check. — 26.Reb1 Qg4 27.Ke1 — If 27.Nxe5 Qxg3 and 28...Qf2# —
27...Qxg3+ 28.Kd1 Qxg2 29.Ne1 — Or 29.Nxe5 dxe5 30.Qb5 Bf4 31.Qd5 Qf1+
32.Kc2 Qxe2+ 33.Kb3 Qxd3+ 34.Ka4 Qc2+ 35.Kb5 Bg2 36.Qd6 d3 etc.
Despite being up the double-Exchange, White is doomed. — 29...Qf1
30.Kc2 (if 30.Qxa7 Bf2) 30...Qxe2+ 31.Kb3 b5 32.Qxa7 (not 32.cxb5??
Be6#) 32...bxc4+ 33.dxc4 Be6 34.Qa6 Bf2 and the roof caves in.

"If this is the standard of play of these old masters, then indeed
Phil Innes could indeed beat Morphy...and so could I." — Ray Lopez.
Right, Ray. You are also going to get your pick of this year's
Playmates of the Month, win the Irish Sweepstakes, discover gold in
your back yard, be elected King of America, visit the outer planets by
teleportation, and attain Nirvana.

"Some real stinkers were played in the old days." — RL. Ray takes a
dump in public, then complains that Botvinnik's hair needs combing.



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Old October 17th 10, 03:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 16, 6:31*pm, raylopez99 wrote:

From the book by Soltis, "Soviet Chess". *This "gem" (not) decided the
Seventh Soviet Championship in Moscow in 1931. *Botvinnik finished a
point behind Kasparyan of Armenia, who had black below in the title
game.


BTW, Ray, besides giving crummy analysis, you've gotten the history
very wrong. Botvinnik won the 1931 Soviet Championship, scoring
13½-3½. Kasparyan finished tied for last (of 18) at 5-12. Kasparyan's
game with Lisitsyn was just one of the 153 games in the tournament,
not "the title game." You can check this easily by looking at page 72
of the book.
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Old October 17th 10, 06:36 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.analysis
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Default Botvinnik analysis howler; Seventh Soviet Championship title gameof 1931 a joke

On Oct 17, 5:18*pm, Taylor Kingston
wrote:


* BTW, Ray, besides giving crummy analysis, you've gotten the history
very wrong. Botvinnik won the 1931 Soviet Championship, scoring
13½-3½. Kasparyan finished tied for last (of 18) at 5-12. Kasparyan's
game with Lisitsyn was just one of the 153 games in the tournament,
not "the title game." You can check this easily by looking at page 72
of the book.


I see that, but how do you then explain this statement on page 48
(first paragraph): "Kasparyan ...won with a full point ahead of
Botvinnik"? The only way I can reconcile these two statements (the
table speaks for itself) is that Soltis is speaking of the
'semifinals' of the Seventh Soviet Championship, which Kasparyan won a
full point ahead of B*, yet they then played another round in the
finals where Botvinnik won with a score of 14-5 while Kas* was in last
place (!) with 5-12? He really collapsed between the semis and the
finals if that's true. Maybe Winter can research this...clearly
something unclear going on.

As for your analysis of the f2 sac, my computer is tied up right now
(I'm virus checking a copy of a DVD I bought in Russia for $5--it
literally takes 3 hours a DVD for the slow P4 to exhaustively check
every file on the DVD to make sure no viruses exist)...but I'll try
and research it anyway.

RL
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