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Old June 21st 11, 06:04 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default GetClub flattened badly by Jester.

Here is a tough game with Easy Level.

Initially Both players were giving equal attack to each other.

On 39th move black played rook to a position which blocked its King.
White took advantage of this block and pin the Bishop by giving check
with King.

GetClub lost the Bishop due to pin against King..

Game Played between nominius and easy at GetClub.com
nominius: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess

White -- Black
(nominius) -- (easy)

1. c2-c4{70} e7-e5{0}
2. Nb1-c3{6} d7-d6{0}
3. g2-g3{12} Nb8-c6{0}
4. Bf1-g2{4} Bc8-e6{0}
5. b2-b3{12} Qd8-d7{0}
6. Ng1-f3{36} Nc6-d4{90}
7. Ke1-g1{40} h7-h5{104}
8. h2-h4{32} Nd4-f3{190}
9. Bg2-f3{8} c7-c6{322}
10. d2-d4{18} Ng8-f6{50}
11. d4-e5{68} d6-e5{88}
12. Bc1-g5{42} Qd7-d4{52}
13. Bg5-f6{38} Qd4-c3{28}
14. Ra1-c1{12} Qc3-a5{84}
15. Bf6-g5{110} Qa5-a2{98}
16. Rc1-a1{12} Qa2-b2{72}
17. Ra1-a7{8} Ra8-c8{22}
18. Ra7-b7{16} f7-f6{40}
19. Bg5-c1{186} Qb2-c3{322}
20. Qd1-d2{32} Qc3-a1{108}
21. Rf1-d1{52} Qa1-a6{130}
22. Rb7-d7{16} Bf8-e7{32}
23. Rd7-d3{270} Qa6-b6{50}
24. Bc1-b2{104} Qb6-c5{70}
25. e2-e4{92} Rc8-a8{242}
26. Qd2-e3{46} Qc5-e3{116}
27. Rd3-e3{14} Ke8-f7{80}
28. Re3-d3{16} Be7-c5{226}
29. Kg1-f1{100} Ra8-a2{162}
30. Rd3-d2{62} Bc5-b4{120}
31. Rd2-e2{40} Kf7-g8{56}
32. Rd1-a1{74} Ra2-a1{24}
33. Bb2-a1{4} Rh8-h6{68}
34. Re2-a2{32} Be6-h3{192}
35. Bf3-g2{20} Bh3-g4{164}
36. Ra2-a6{26} Bg4-d7{184}
37. Ra6-a7{98} Bd7-e6{136}
38. Ba1-b2{22} Be6-f7{68}
39. Kf1-e2{32} Rh6-h7{60}
40. Ra7-a8{20} Bb4-f8{304}
41. Bb2-a3{12} Kg8-h8{48}
42. Bg2-h3{40} Bf7-g8{88}
43. Ra8-f8{8} g7-g5{116}
44. Bh3-e6{10} Rh7-g7{202}
45. Rf8-g8{10} Rg7-g8{12}
46. Be6-g8{6} Kh8-g8{12}
47. h4-g5{6} f6-g5{134}
48. Ba3-e7{58} g5-g4{124}
49. Be7-f6{12} Kg8-f7{176}
50. Bf6-e5{10} Kf7-g6{52}
51. Be5-f4{14} Kg6-g7{78}
52. b3-b4{12} Kg7-h8{264}
53. b4-b5{12} c6-c5{34}
54. b5-b6{12} Kh8-g8{20}
55. b6-b7{6} Kg8-f7{102}
56. Qb7-b8{Q}{8} h5-h4{66}
57. g3-h4{24} Kf7-g6{322}
58. Qb8-e5{16} Kg6-f7{2}
59. h4-h5{20} Kf7-f8{6}
60. h5-h6{8} g4-g3{2}
61. f2-g3{8} Kf8-f7{0}
62. Bf4-g5{24} Kf7-f8{0}
63. Qe5-e7{8} Kf8-e7{0}
nominius: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess

I was able to spot one weak move by black.

Can you find any other weak move by GetClub?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old June 22nd 11, 10:34 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default GetClub flattened badly by Jester.

On Jun 21, 1:04*pm, Sanny wrote:

Here is a tough game with Easy Level.

Initially Both players were giving equal attack to each other.

On 39th move black played rook to a position which blocked its King.
White took advantage of this block and pin the Bishop by giving check
with King.

GetClub lost the Bishop due to pin against King..

Game Played between nominius and easy at GetClub.com
nominius: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess

* * White -- Black
* * (nominius) -- (easy)

* * 1. c2-c4{70} e7-e5{0}
* * 2. Nb1-c3{6} d7-d6{0}
* * 3. g2-g3{12} Nb8-c6{0}
* * 4. Bf1-g2{4} Bc8-e6{0}
* * 5. b2-b3{12} Qd8-d7{0}
* * 6. Ng1-f3{36} Nc6-d4{90}
* * 7. Ke1-g1{40} h7-h5{104}
* * 8. h2-h4{32} Nd4-f3{190}
* * 9. Bg2-f3{8} c7-c6{322}
* * 10. d2-d4{18} Ng8-f6{50}
* * 11. d4-e5{68} d6-e5{88}
* * 12. Bc1-g5{42} Qd7-d4{52}
* * 13. Bg5-f6{38} Qd4-c3{28}
* * 14. Ra1-c1{12} Qc3-a5{84}
* * 15. Bf6-g5{110} Qa5-a2{98}
* * 16. Rc1-a1{12} Qa2-b2{72}
* * 17. Ra1-a7{8} Ra8-c8{22}
* * 18. Ra7-b7{16} f7-f6{40}
* * 19. Bg5-c1{186} Qb2-c3{322}
* * 20. Qd1-d2{32} Qc3-a1{108}
* * 21. Rf1-d1{52} Qa1-a6{130}
* * 22. Rb7-d7{16} Bf8-e7{32}
* * 23. Rd7-d3{270} Qa6-b6{50}
* * 24. Bc1-b2{104} Qb6-c5{70}
* * 25. e2-e4{92} Rc8-a8{242}
* * 26. Qd2-e3{46} Qc5-e3{116}
* * 27. Rd3-e3{14} Ke8-f7{80}
* * 28. Re3-d3{16} Be7-c5{226}
* * 29. Kg1-f1{100} Ra8-a2{162}
* * 30. Rd3-d2{62} Bc5-b4{120}
* * 31. Rd2-e2{40} Kf7-g8{56}
* * 32. Rd1-a1{74} Ra2-a1{24}
* * 33. Bb2-a1{4} Rh8-h6{68}
* * 34. Re2-a2{32} Be6-h3{192}
* * 35. Bf3-g2{20} Bh3-g4{164}
* * 36. Ra2-a6{26} Bg4-d7{184}
* * 37. Ra6-a7{98} Bd7-e6{136}
* * 38. Ba1-b2{22} Be6-f7{68}
* * 39. Kf1-e2{32} Rh6-h7{60}
* * 40. Ra7-a8{20} Bb4-f8{304}
* * 41. Bb2-a3{12} Kg8-h8{48}
* * 42. Bg2-h3{40} Bf7-g8{88}
* * 43. Ra8-f8{8} g7-g5{116}
* * 44. Bh3-e6{10} Rh7-g7{202}
* * 45. Rf8-g8{10} Rg7-g8{12}
* * 46. Be6-g8{6} Kh8-g8{12}
* * 47. h4-g5{6} f6-g5{134}
* * 48. Ba3-e7{58} g5-g4{124}
* * 49. Be7-f6{12} Kg8-f7{176}
* * 50. Bf6-e5{10} Kf7-g6{52}
* * 51. Be5-f4{14} Kg6-g7{78}
* * 52. b3-b4{12} Kg7-h8{264}
* * 53. b4-b5{12} c6-c5{34}
* * 54. b5-b6{12} Kh8-g8{20}
* * 55. b6-b7{6} Kg8-f7{102}
* * 56. Qb7-b8{Q}{8} h5-h4{66}
* * 57. g3-h4{24} Kf7-g6{322}
* * 58. Qb8-e5{16} Kg6-f7{2}
* * 59. h4-h5{20} Kf7-f8{6}
* * 60. h5-h6{8} g4-g3{2}
* * 61. f2-g3{8} Kf8-f7{0}
* * 62. Bf4-g5{24} Kf7-f8{0}
* * 63. Qe5-e7{8} Kf8-e7{0}
* * nominius: (White)
* * easy: (Black)
* * Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
* * View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess

I was able to spot one weak move by black.

Can you find any other weak move by GetClub?



Yes.

The move 15. ...Qxa2 was a real stinker, as after this White was
clearly winning.

Also, the move 18. ...f6 loses by force to 19.Qd3! (and soon mates).

Moving along, we come to the erroneous 20. ...Qa1, unwisely avoiding
a trade of Queens while Black's king suffers heavy enemy fire.

The next serious error by Black came at move 31 where instead of the
obvious ...Kg6, he clumsily tripped over himself with ...Kg8.

This was soon followed by the equally clumsy 33. ...Rh6. What
future is there for the rook from this odd position?


Black's mistakes, like White's in this game, are too numerous to
bother listing them all. Easy level lasted a good while due to
numerous inacuracies by the opponent, but really should have gone down
in the early middlegame (white) / opening (black). Note
how as early as move six, Black began shuffling pieces he had already
developed and completely stopped any further efforts to get
his other pieces into the game. The result could have --and should
have-- been a massacre, but White bungled almost every tactical
opportunity that arose until finally Easy level's endgame
shortcommings manifested themselves.

Still, I consider it quite a feat to even complete a game on the bug-
infested GetClub website, win, lose or draw.

  #3   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 11, 08:16 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Posts: 2,402
Default GetClub flattened badly by Jester.

* * 62. Bf4-g5{24} Kf7-f8{0}
* * 63. Qe5-e7{8} Kf8-e7{0}
* * nominius: (White)
* * easy: (Black)
* * Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
* * View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess


I was able to spot one weak move by black.


Can you find any other weak move by GetClub?


* Yes.


It was a good analysis on your part. Only when you spot mistakes in
GetClub, It can be corrected and improved.

* The move 15. ...Qxa2 was a real stinker, as after this White was
clearly winning.


I feel Easy level could not see the full sequence where it loses a
pawn after 6 ply. To evaluate this pawn exchange it should have seen 8
ply deeper.

* Also, the move 18. ...f6 loses by force to 19.Qd3! (and soon mates).


f6 was played to get rid of Bishop, again it needed 10 ply deep
analysis for understanding this.

* Moving along, we come to the erroneous 20. ...Qa1, unwisely avoiding
a trade of Queens while Black's king suffers heavy enemy fire.


Since GetClub is down a pawn, I have put penalty on exchanges. I read
somewhere you should not exchange pieces when you are down in
material.

* The next serious error by Black came at move 31 where instead of the
obvious ...Kg6, he clumsily tripped over himself with ...Kg8.


I have told GetClub never to take out the King. And always to keep it
behind pawns. So that the king is well protected. This was the only
reason the opponent took "63" moves to win the game. If its king was
outside it would have been trapped easily.

* This was soon followed by the equally clumsy 33. ...Rh6. * What
future is there for the rook from this odd position?


That rook was also unused at h8, but at h6 it can come out from g6
attacking opponents pawn.

I am very weak player, So my above reasons may not be good enough. Let
me know if my above explanations need modifications. I will update the
brain of GetClub if needed.

in the early middle-game (white) / opening (black). * Note
how as early as move six, Black began shuffling pieces he had already
developed and completely stopped any further efforts to get
his other pieces into the game.


I will see if anything can be done to avoid it.

* Still, I consider it quite a feat to even complete a game on the bug-
infested GetClub website, win, lose or draw.


Yes, a week back a few bugs were found and removed. That may be the
problem when you were playing the game.

The bug used to close the game very soon. Now those bugs have been
removed.

Play and let me know if you still find any bug.

Try playing with Firefox browser with latest Java version.

Windows Explorer has some real problems.

Let me know if your Free Games are over I will add 500+ more free
games for you to play. What is your username at GetClub?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old June 23rd 11, 10:21 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default GetClub flattened badly by Jester.

On Jun 23, 3:16*am, Sanny wrote:

* The move 15. ...Qxa2 was a real stinker, as after this White was
clearly winning.


I feel Easy level could not see the full sequence where it loses a
pawn after 6 ply. To evaluate this pawn exchange it should have seen 8
ply deeper.



Good point. While most chess engines can easily see six or eight
plies deep,
GetClub is almost unique and must be evaluated from a different
perspective.


* Also, the move 18. ...f6 loses by force to 19.Qd3! (and soon mates)..


f6 was played to get rid of Bishop, again it needed 10 ply deep
analysis for understanding this.



True enough. Although many mediocre human players would recognize
right
away that Qg6+ is a devastating threat, it does not immediately lead
to mate.


* Moving along, we come to the erroneous 20. ...Qa1, unwisely avoiding
a trade of Queens while Black's king suffers heavy enemy fire.


Since GetClub is down a pawn, I have put penalty on exchanges. I read
somewhere you should not exchange pieces when you are down in
material.



I was looking at things from the perspective of GetClub's Easy level
being a
habitual loser, whose proper goal ought to be to lose more and more
slowly,
thereby giving the opponent more opportunities to carelessly hang a
piece.

But your perspective is equally valid. It is 'normally' the case
that a chess
engine improves its winning chances when behind by avoiding exchanges
and
keeping the position complex and difficult. Rybka for example, would
go with
the approach you have chosen. But then, Rybka is (correctly)
assumming
that the pawn is less of a disadvantage than being a much weaker
chess
player.


* The next serious error by Black came at move 31 where instead of the
obvious ...Kg6, he clumsily tripped over himself with ...Kg8.


I have told GetClub never to take out the King. And always to keep it
behind pawns. So that the king is well protected. This was the only
reason the opponent took "63" moves to win the game. If its king was
outside it would have been trapped easily.



But there comes a point in the game where hiding the king behind a
wall
of pawns allows the opponent to effectively be 'up a piece.' And if
in the
process of getting the king to this illusory safety it blocks another
piece in,
you can be effectively down two pieces.

Figuring out when to 'activate' the king and when to protect it
behind a the
lines is tricky. It requires judgement and skill, obtained from
experience and
understanding.


* This was soon followed by the equally clumsy 33. ...Rh6. * What
future is there for the rook from this odd position?


That rook was also unused at h8, but at h6 it can come out from g6
attacking opponents pawn.



Here you have adopted the famous 'circles upon circles' argument in
which a faulty idea is supported by irrational justifications, like
when the
Ptolemaic system added more and more 'stuff' to compensate for its
obvious deficiencies. The same type of error can easily be seen
today,
where say, Albert Einstein added a fudge factor to try to make his
idea
work but then later removed it on a whim. Both before and after
this
removal it was said that his system 'worked' correctly, which tells
us
something, I think, about the value of those judgements and about the
kooky people who made them.

Attacking a pawn with a rook is ineffective if that pawn is
permanently
defended by another pawn, as it was in this game.


I am very weak player, So my above reasons may not be good enough. Let
me know if my above explanations need modifications. I will update the
brain of GetClub if needed.



I wouldn't worry too much about trying to implement deep positional
understanding of chess at this stage. Instead, try to make the
program
kick humans around tactically, using its superior speed and accuracy
of
calculation.

I can still easily recall a time when the best chess programs
struggled to
reach eight or nine plies, and if you wanted to make sure its analysis
was
really reliable you had to let it crank overnight just to get one
additional ply
completed. Today, I often see my computer announcing a mate-in-XY,
where the digit X can be as high as a seven, as in mate-in-seventy-
three.
Soon it whittles the number down into the twenties or high teens.

Think of it this way: we humans (some of us, anyway) are very
skillful at
shooting arrows with our bows. We can hit a small target 100 yards
away,
delivering a deadly blow right to the heart. But modern computers
have
developed to the point where they can fire at a rate of 1000 rounds a
minute,
with an effective range of 800 yards. And the bullets explode on
impact,
ejecting schrapnel in all directions. GetClub can *become* that
machine.
All you need to do is get out the way and let her rip.


* Still, I consider it quite a feat to even complete a game on

the bug-
infested GetClub website, win, lose or draw.


Yes, a week back a few bugs were found and removed. That may be the
problem when you were playing the game.



A few bugs? No, that was not my problem. I was in fact assailed
by an
army of the creatures, and felt fortunate to escape with my life.
Saying there
may have been a bug or two (now removed) reminds me of the movie
Robocop
where they bring in a 'police robot' which then goes berserk,
slaughtering the
offending 'criminal' with its way-oversized machine gun. Afterward,
the
corporate officer in charge of the robot explains, 'it's just a
glitch.'
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Old June 23rd 11, 12:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default GetClub flattened badly by Jester.

On 23/06/2011 08:16, Sanny wrote:
62. Bf4-g5{24} Kf7-f8{0}
63. Qe5-e7{8} Kf8-e7{0}
nominius: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...043&game=Chess


I was able to spot one weak move by black.


Can you find any other weak move by GetClub?


Yes.


It was a good analysis on your part. Only when you spot mistakes in
GetClub, It can be corrected and improved.

The move 15. ...Qxa2 was a real stinker, as after this White was
clearly winning.


I feel Easy level could not see the full sequence where it loses a
pawn after 6 ply. To evaluate this pawn exchange it should have seen 8
ply deeper.


The forcing sequence is much shorter. After 15. ... Qxa2????
16. Ra1 Qb2 17. Rxa7! Rc8 18. Rxb7 is obvious
The position is actually so bad that QxR is not much worse.

Also, the move 18. ...f6 loses by force to 19.Qd3! (and soon mates).


f6 was played to get rid of Bishop, again it needed 10 ply deep
analysis for understanding this.


For once you are correct at least for simple minded material eval.

Moving along, we come to the erroneous 20. ...Qa1, unwisely avoiding
a trade of Queens while Black's king suffers heavy enemy fire.


Since GetClub is down a pawn, I have put penalty on exchanges. I read
somewhere you should not exchange pieces when you are down in
material.


If the material balance is only a pawn then this doesn't apply. A minor
piece or equivalent down and it should hold on to its pieces.
19. Bc1? very sloppy by white.

24. ... Kf7/Bc5/Rb8/O-O/g6/Bf5 are all better than Qc5 ranks 21/44

30. R3d2? was a mistake by white you could have taken the advantage with
30. ... Rb8 31. Bc1 RxR 32. RxR Rxb3 33. Bxh5+ g6 34. Bd1
or drawn with 30. ... Bh3+

The next serious error by Black came at move 31 where instead of the
obvious ...Kg6, he clumsily tripped over himself with ...Kg8.


I have told GetClub never to take out the King. And always to keep it
behind pawns. So that the king is well protected. This was the only
reason the opponent took "63" moves to win the game. If its king was
outside it would have been trapped easily.


It was still a terrible move. You were back to almost equality and any
of 31. ... g6/Raa8/Ra6/Ra7/Ra5/Bh3+/Bc5/Kg6 would be OK
Kg8 is dire and ranks 26/42 (block in the kings rook)

White missed 32. Rd8+ Kh7 33. RxR KxR 34. Bxh5

This was soon followed by the equally clumsy 33. ...Rh6. What
future is there for the rook from this odd position?


That rook was also unused at h8, but at h6 it can come out from g6
attacking opponents pawn.

That is why black should have played Kf7 or even better never moved the
king so as to block the rook in the first place. A rook attacking a
defended pawn is not much of a threat it has almost no mobility.

I am very weak player, So my above reasons may not be good enough. Let
me know if my above explanations need modifications. I will update the
brain of GetClub if needed.


OK the one that stands out for me is that 39. ... Rh7 is totally
incomprehensible it sets up a basic trap to lose a bishop. It ranks
19/24 the right moves were Be6/Be8/Kf8

Whilst it is true that the game is already lost and there are worse
moves possible they all involve putting a piece en prise for immediate
capture. Why can't Getclub see that Ra8+ loses the bishop?

After the check black now has only two options and both of them lose a
bishop at either 3 or 5 ply which should take only a fraction of second!
There is no excuse for this sort of mistake!

Regards,
Martin Brown
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