Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old December 13th 03, 09:02 AM
The Lindbergh Baby
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Then, after the last move here, I am stuck not knowing how to respond.
I feel as though all the "play" has run out of the game. I'm interested
not so much in a suggested move as in what exactly happened to sort of
run the game out of steam and how one finds the thread again. Or maybe
no one has any idea what I am talking about and the next moves are plain
as day to everyone but me....

Time controls are 40/120.

Chessmaster 9000
[Date "12-9-2003"]
[Round ""]
[White "Doc"]
[Black "Grabowski"]

1.
d4
d5

2.
e3
Nf6

3.
Nd2
e6

4.
Bb5+
Bd7

5.
Bd3
Nc6

6.
c3
Bd6

7.
Ngf3
e5

8.
dxe5
Nxe5

9.
Nxe5
Bxe5

10.
Nf3
Bd6

11.
c4
O-O

12.
cxd5
Nxd5

13.
Bxh7+
Kxh7

14.
Qxd5
Bc6

15.
Qh5+
Kg8

16.
Bd2
Qf6

17.
Ng5
Qh6

18.
Qxh6
gxh6

19.
Nh3
Be5

20.
Rc1
Bxb2

21.
Rc2
Be5

22.
f3
f5

23.
Rc5
Rfe8

24.
Ke2
Rad8

25.
Rxc6
bxc6

26.
Rc1
Rd6

27.
g3
Red8

28.
Rc2
c5

29.
Ba5
Rc6

30.
Nf2
c4

31.
Be1
Ra6

32.
e4
Rf8

33.
exf5
Rxf5

34.
Ne4
Ra3

35.
Bd2
Rfxf3

36.
Bxh6



--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven

  #2   Report Post  
Old December 13th 03, 11:13 AM
Fernando
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?


"The Lindbergh Baby" schreef in
bericht ...
That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Time controls are 40/120.

Chessmaster 9000
[Date "12-9-2003"]
[Round ""]
[White "Doc"]
[Black "Grabowski"]


You mean Black is "Doc" and you were White?
Else I don't understand why you would state the question at all with your
level of play.

Best regards,
Fernando


  #3   Report Post  
Old December 13th 03, 12:53 PM
AGrigsby
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

I viewed you game, and actually Black is kinda running out of options. Many
of the variations thought up for Black didn't work so i could understand why
you would get stuck. Even though you're up in material, White's pieces are
placed very well to where the game could look as if it is in a draw ending.

There are some moves during the game, that I would've played different, but
as far as this end poistion, here what you have to take into consideration.
White is attacking your strong passed pawn, the e4-knight, has many
opportunities to get on your territory and cause damage, the Bishop has a
great diagonal, and those g & h- passed pawns are definetly going to be a
nuisance for you throughout the end of the game. So though you smelled
victory, I think you should fight for a draw. Put your pawns on the light
squares, and becareful of the moves you make. That's why after careful
consideration I would play... 36. ...Rfc3. Yes, it would give up your rook
for the knight, though you would get material even to fight for a draw.

If anyone else replies, let me know what you think about 36. ...Rfc3



"Fernando" wrote in message
i.nl...

"The Lindbergh Baby" schreef in
bericht ...
That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Time controls are 40/120.

Chessmaster 9000
[Date "12-9-2003"]
[Round ""]
[White "Doc"]
[Black "Grabowski"]


You mean Black is "Doc" and you were White?
Else I don't understand why you would state the question at all with your
level of play.

Best regards,
Fernando




  #4   Report Post  
Old December 13th 03, 03:20 PM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

The Lindbergh Baby wrote:

That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Then, after the last move here, I am stuck not knowing how to respond.
I feel as though all the "play" has run out of the game. I'm interested
not so much in a suggested move as in what exactly happened to sort of
run the game out of steam and how one finds the thread again. Or maybe
no one has any idea what I am talking about and the next moves are plain
as day to everyone but me....


Tactics is what you do when there's something to do, strategy is what
you do when there isn't (Tartakower).

When you are in a position where you don't know what to do next you
are clearly in the strategy category. It's all about plans.

Well, this is an endgame and in an endgame the goal is to promote
pawns. The way to go here is to promote the a-pawn, because the c-pawn
is blocked by rook and knight and the white bishop defends the
queening square c1. Promoting the c-pawn becomes a reality only if
Black can at least trade two defenders.

That means you have to look for a way to capture the white a-pawn.
If a rook pair could be traded this would help Black big time since
White has no effective means to defend the a-pawn then.

One way to do it is 36...Bd4. This sets up the threat 37...Rfe3+
38. Bxe3 Rxe3+ 39. Kd2 Rxe4, trading two pieces against the rook. This
should be winning because then you have the means to promote the
c-pawn. It also prepares for a intrusion of the rook to f2 if the
knight moves.

White basically has for defenses: running away with the king, running
away with the knight, protecting the knight or grab any material he
can.

Running away with the king: 37. Kd1 (or Kd2) 37...Rad3+. Now 38. Kc1
Rf1 is mate, 38. Ke2 lets Black execute his threat, 38. Ke1 leads to
protecting the knight, 38. Rd2 leads to 38...Rf1+ 39. Ke2 Rxd2+ (goal
one: rook traded) 40. Kxc2 Rh1 41. h4 Rh2+ 42. Kc1 Rxa2 (goal two:
captured a-pawn).

Running away with the knight: 37. Nd2 (only useful square) 37...Rf2+
38. Kd1 Rxh2 39. Bf4 c3 40. Nf3 Rxc2 41. Kxc2 Rxa2+ mission
accomplished.

Defending the knight: 37. Ke1 (now White has Re2) 37...Be3 38. Bg5
(38. Nd2 Bxh6 39. Nxf3 Rxf3 and Black has two pieces for his rook)
38...Bxg5 39. Nxg5 (White so far has managed to keep his material but
the knight is displaced) 39...Rfc3 40. Re2 (trading rooks gives Black
what he wants: the a-pawn) 40...Rc1+ 41. Kf2 Ra1 and the a-pawn falls.

Grabbing material: 37. Rxc4 c5 (37...Rxa2 leaves the Rf3 undefended)
38. Nxc5 (38. Rc2 Rae3+; 38. Kd1 Rf1+ 39. Ke2 Rh1 40. h4 Rh2+ 41. Kd1
Raxa2 42. Nd2 a5) 38...Rf2+ 39. Ke1 Rxh2. The a-pawn will fall and
Black has mating threats against the king.

However White defends it leaves Black with a winning advantage and a
clear plan.

Claus-Juergen
  #5   Report Post  
Old December 13th 03, 08:06 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?


Well, the first question is why and when did you think you "smelled"
victory?"

The final position has a lot going on. You have a slight material
advantage, but white has those connected passed pawns. So your first
thought needs to be, "How do I stop those pawns from queening?"

I think you'd learn a lot from reading some of Chernev's better books:
"The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played," and "Capablanca's
Best Chess Endings."

-Ron


  #6   Report Post  
Old December 14th 03, 08:23 AM
The Lindbergh Baby
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what todo?

Thanks for the very interesting analysis. It helped a lot.



John

Claus-Jürgen Heigl wrote:
The Lindbergh Baby wrote:

That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Then, after the last move here, I am stuck not knowing how to respond.
I feel as though all the "play" has run out of the game. I'm interested
not so much in a suggested move as in what exactly happened to sort of
run the game out of steam and how one finds the thread again. Or maybe
no one has any idea what I am talking about and the next moves are plain
as day to everyone but me....



Tactics is what you do when there's something to do, strategy is what
you do when there isn't (Tartakower).

When you are in a position where you don't know what to do next you
are clearly in the strategy category. It's all about plans.

Well, this is an endgame and in an endgame the goal is to promote
pawns. The way to go here is to promote the a-pawn, because the c-pawn
is blocked by rook and knight and the white bishop defends the
queening square c1. Promoting the c-pawn becomes a reality only if
Black can at least trade two defenders.

That means you have to look for a way to capture the white a-pawn.
If a rook pair could be traded this would help Black big time since
White has no effective means to defend the a-pawn then.

One way to do it is 36...Bd4. This sets up the threat 37...Rfe3+
38. Bxe3 Rxe3+ 39. Kd2 Rxe4, trading two pieces against the rook. This
should be winning because then you have the means to promote the
c-pawn. It also prepares for a intrusion of the rook to f2 if the
knight moves.

White basically has for defenses: running away with the king, running
away with the knight, protecting the knight or grab any material he
can.

Running away with the king: 37. Kd1 (or Kd2) 37...Rad3+. Now 38. Kc1
Rf1 is mate, 38. Ke2 lets Black execute his threat, 38. Ke1 leads to
protecting the knight, 38. Rd2 leads to 38...Rf1+ 39. Ke2 Rxd2+ (goal
one: rook traded) 40. Kxc2 Rh1 41. h4 Rh2+ 42. Kc1 Rxa2 (goal two:
captured a-pawn).

Running away with the knight: 37. Nd2 (only useful square) 37...Rf2+
38. Kd1 Rxh2 39. Bf4 c3 40. Nf3 Rxc2 41. Kxc2 Rxa2+ mission
accomplished.

Defending the knight: 37. Ke1 (now White has Re2) 37...Be3 38. Bg5
(38. Nd2 Bxh6 39. Nxf3 Rxf3 and Black has two pieces for his rook)
38...Bxg5 39. Nxg5 (White so far has managed to keep his material but
the knight is displaced) 39...Rfc3 40. Re2 (trading rooks gives Black
what he wants: the a-pawn) 40...Rc1+ 41. Kf2 Ra1 and the a-pawn falls.

Grabbing material: 37. Rxc4 c5 (37...Rxa2 leaves the Rf3 undefended)
38. Nxc5 (38. Rc2 Rae3+; 38. Kd1 Rf1+ 39. Ke2 Rh1 40. h4 Rh2+ 41. Kd1
Raxa2 42. Nd2 a5) 38...Rf2+ 39. Ke1 Rxh2. The a-pawn will fall and
Black has mating threats against the king.

However White defends it leaves Black with a winning advantage and a
clear plan.

Claus-Juergen




--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven

  #7   Report Post  
Old December 16th 03, 12:02 AM
Glenn C. Rhoads
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

The Lindbergh Baby wrote in message ...
That's what's happened here. I was playing this game with Chessmaster
personality "Doc" and I thought I had things in decent shape. I thought
I smelled victory.

Then, after the last move here, I am stuck not knowing how to respond.
I feel as though all the "play" has run out of the game. I'm interested
not so much in a suggested move as in what exactly happened to sort of
run the game out of steam and how one finds the thread again. Or maybe
no one has any idea what I am talking about and the next moves are plain
as day to everyone but me....


I think we all experience positions in which we just don't know what to
do next.


Time controls are 40/120.

Chessmaster 9000
[Date "12-9-2003"]
[Round ""]
[White "Doc"]
[Black "Grabowski"]

1. d4 d5
2. e3 Nf6
3. Nd2 e6


A good alternative is 3...Bf5. The natural place for white's
king-bishop is d3 which the f5 bishop opposes. 3...e6 blocks in
this bishop and after white's Bd3, black has to be very careful
about white's king-side attacking chances. 3... e6 is just as
good from a theoretical point of view; after 3... e6, black should
probably fianchetto the king-bishop so that he can safely castle
king-side (otherwise white's king-side attacking chances are too
dangerous.)


4. Bb5+ Bd7


Why doesn't white play 4.Bd3 directly? This interposition simply
gives black a free developing move.


5. Bd3 Nc6


5...C5! and then Nc6.

5... Nc6 blocks in the c-pawn which could have been used to hit
at the white center.


6. c3 Bd6
7. Ngf3


White could try the stonewall here, 7.f5 intending Nf3-e5
and a murderous king-side attack if black makes the mistake
of castling king-side.


7.... e5


I approve.


8. dxe5 Nxe5
9. Nxe5 Bxe5
10. Nf3 Bd6

11. c4 O-O


You missed the coming thematic Bxh7+ combo to pick up a pawn.
11.... dxc4, 11...c6, or 11...Be6 are better.


12. cxd5 Nxd5
13. Bxh7+ Kxh7
14. Qxd5 Bc6
15. Qh5+ Kg8
16. Bd2 Qf6
17. Ng5 Qh6
18. Qxh6


18.Qg4 was better.


18.... gxh6

19. Nh3 Be5


I'm glad you avoided the trap, 19...Bxg2? 20.Rg1


20. Rc1 Bxb2
21. Rc2 Be5


White gives back the pawn for no compensation!


22. f3 f5


I'm not sure what you're idea is here. But why not put a rook on
d8 (the only open file) and try to get the queen-side pawns rolling.
The queen-side is the side where you have an advantage.


23. Rc5 Rfe8
24. Ke2 Rad8
25. Rxc6


?? This makes no sense. You're definitely winning now!
Personality "Doc" certainly doesn't play like a typical
computer program (which are notoriously materialistic).


25...bxc6
26. Rc1 Rd6


or 26...Bxh2


27. g3 Red8
28. Rc2 c5
29. Ba5 Rc6
30. Nf2 c4
31. Be1 Ra6
32. e4 Rf8


You could have played 32...fxe4 33.Nxe4 to avoid the
possibility of 32...Rf8 33.f4 Bd4 34.e5


33. exf5 Rxf5
34. Ne4 Ra3
35. Bd2 Rfxf3
36. Bxh6


Both sides have three pieces with an open position so the ensuing
play is likely to be highly tactical requiring careful calculation.
You are going to have to use threats to make any progress. So what
threats can you make? You can't do anything to the king. White's
unprotected pieces are the e4 knight, the h6 bishop, and the h2 pawn.
You can't do anything about the knight, so how about the bishop and
pawn?

36.... Rf5 threatening Rh5
37.Be3 c3 to futher restrict white's pieces

White's pieces are so restricted, he has almost nothing besides
h3 or h4, and then continue with the g and h pawns.

38.h4

The g3 pawn is now protected only by the e4 knight which can now
be attacked. So we should calculate the consequences of Ra4.
38....Ra4 39.Nxc3 Rc4 and either 40.Bd2 Bxg3 with a wide open
position (note that the h pawn is doomed) or 40.Kd3 Rxc3+ 41.Rxc3
Bxc3 42.Kxc3 a6 with an advantageous (but not easy) endgame.
  #8   Report Post  
Old December 16th 03, 12:25 AM
Glenn C. Rhoads
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

Claus-Jürgen Heigl wrote in message ...
The Lindbergh Baby wrote:

One way to do it is 36...Bd4. This sets up the threat 37...Rfe3+
38. Bxe3 Rxe3+ 39. Kd2 Rxe4, trading two pieces against the rook. This
should be winning because then you have the means to promote the
c-pawn. It also prepares for a intrusion of the rook to f2 if the
knight moves.


I responded without looking at any other posts in order to avoid
any biases but now I wish I had looked at your post! I missed this
threat and instead suggested something else based on a different
threat. Your suggestion is better.
  #9   Report Post  
Old December 16th 03, 01:16 PM
henri Arsenault
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ever reach a point in a game where you just don't know what to do?

Unless I am playing for fun and have White, in which case I will launch
into a Blackmar-Diemer Gambit or a Morra Gambit without thinking, I
don't know what to do just looking at the starting position! what is my
opponent's favorite opening (geez I dunno, I am unlikely to find any of
his games in Kasparov's book...., Will I inadvertantly slip into a
prepared opening that he knows 25 moves deep? (Once after I lost a Ruy
Lopez against an expert, he said "On the 19th move of this variation,
you are supposed to move the knight!...". Or even worse, find myself
after five moves in an inferior variation of the sicilian
Shesnikov-Kasparov-Fischer-Lasker-Taimanov that everyone knows but me?

Once in the middle game, the stress goes away: either I am obviously
lost, or by some miracle I have somehow gained control of an open file,
and if I can mate him before we reach the ending against an opponent who
has probably learned Fine's "Basic Chess Endings" by heart, I still have
a chance. Damm, I wish I could remember whether or not Rook and King
versus Bishop and King wins...

Henri
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017