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Old March 6th 04, 08:19 PM
Peter Billam
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

Greetings; this is a resend; my ISP's news server has for some weeks
not been uploading postings to the world (aaarrrgghh...) so I hope
this gets through.

Black can try to reach the Sveshnikov via the Four Knights: 1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 which avoids 2.Bb5 and
some of the Sveshnikov bylines. On the other hand, White is offered
a delayed Alapin 3. c3 where the early ...e6 restricts Black's
options, and White gets a big choice on move 6. including 6. Nxc6.

One of these choices is 6. Bg5, which gets bad press;
e.g. Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock just say
"6. Bg5 h6 (or 6... Qb6!?) 7. Bh4 Be7 threatening Nxe4"
or Nunn and Gallagher say of the 4Ns position:
"In some ways this is akin to the Kan and Taimanov systems since
Black leaves the f8-b4 diagonal open for his bishop, but instead
of playing ...a6 he develops a piece. Naturally this is in Black's
favour unless White has some direct method of exploiting the
omission of ..a6, so 6. Ndb5 is the only move to cause problems."

After 6. Bg5 what's the best line for Black ?
To me, it doesn't look quite as easy as these authors imply.
Black can play 6... d6 leading to the Richter-Rauzer attack of the
Classical variation, but that's not appealing to Sveshnikophiles.
Or, a. 6... h6 7. Bh4 d6 should lead to a sort of Richter-Rauzer
(where White does not usually meet ..h6 with Bh4)

Disclaimer: these are all Unauthoritative analyses ..
Following Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock:
b. 6... Qb6!? 7. Nxc6 can Black get anything going here ?
c. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Be7 8. Be2 Nxe4!? almost equalises...
A. 9. Nxe4?! Bxh4 10. Nd6+ Ke7 11. N4b5 (11. O-O? Kxd6! 12.
Nb5+ Ke5 13. Qd6+ Kf6 with advantage) 11... Qa5+ 12. Kf1
(12. b4?! Nxb4!) 12... a6 13. Nxc8+ Rhxc8 14. Nd6 Rc7
15. g3 Bf6 with advantage
B. 9. Bxe7! Nxc3
a. 10. Bxd8 Nxd1 11. Nxc6 bxc6
A. 12. Rxd1?! Kxd8 13. O-O Rb8 is unclear
B. 12. Ba5 Nxb2 13. Bc3 Na4 14. Bxg7 Rg8 15.
Be5!? and White has compensation for the pawn,
e.g. 15... Nc5 16. O-O (or 16. Bd4 d6 17. Bxc5
dc5 18. Rb1) 16... Ba6 17. Bxa6 Nxa6 18. Bd6
b. 10. Nxc6 bc6 11. Qd3?! (better 11. Bxd8 transposing
above) 11... Qxe7 12. Qxc3 O-O 13. O-O d5!? (or
13... Bd7) 14. Qxc6 Bd7 15. Qa6 Rfc8 16. Rac1 Qb4
17. b3 Rc3! 18. Rfd1 Qb6 with the initiative

Or, following Nunn and Gallagher's hint about the free f8-b4 diagonal:
d. 6... Bb4!?
e. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Bb4!?
A. 8. Ndb5? g5 9. Bg3 Nxe4 10. Nc7+ Kf1 11. Nxa8 Nxc3 12. bc3
Bxc3+ 13. Ke2 Nd4+ 14. Kd3 Qa5 15. Rb1 (15. Be2 Bb2!)
15... b5 idea b4, Ba6+ (Pachman)
B. 8. Nxc6! bc6
a. 9. Qd3
b. 9. Qd4 c5 10. Qd3 Bxc3 11. Qxc3?! Nxe4 12. Qxg7
Qxh4 13. Qh8+ Ke7 14. g3 Nxg3 15. fg3 Qe4+ 16. Kf2
Bb7 17. Qxh6 Qf3+ 18. Ke1 Qe4+ draw

Does Black have something incisive and convincing after 6. Bg5 ?

Regards, Peter Billam

--

Peter Billam www.pjb.com.au peter.billam at pjb.com.au
Original compositions, and arrangements of Bach, Schubert, Brahms...
  #2   Report Post  
Old March 9th 04, 04:13 PM
Mr. Plow
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5



After 6. Bg5 what's the best line for Black ?


I play 6...h6 (which seems to be a useful move for Black) followed by the
thematic ...Bb4 (unless White decides he wants to give up the two Bishops
with 7.Bxf6?!).

I don't think Black has a convincing refutation of 6.Bg5, but I don't think
it gives him any serious problems, either. It's just a so-so move by White
that lets a little bit of initiative pass to Black. I like to see it
because I think I get an equal position, but one with which I am probably
more comfortable than my opponent.

By the way, what is the Nunn & Gallagher book you are referring to?
Raetsky's book, "Meeting 1...e4", doesn't even mention 6.Bg5, although this
is probably the most common move played by players under 2000.


  #3   Report Post  
Old March 10th 04, 05:54 AM
Douglas L Stewart
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

Another possibility you will need to deal with is 7. Bg5 instead of 7. Bf4.
Here is a game I played in that line. After 10 .. b5 I was nearly laughing
out loud. I really wanted to say "I adjust" and move White's knight on b3
to a3! I think 9 .. Bd7 is a better move - but I just couldn't resist 9 ..
e5.

Markley,J (1938) - Stewart,D (1777) [B45]
Louisiana Championship Baton Rouge, LA (5), 31.08.2003
[Fritz 8 (300s)]

B45: Sicilian Four Knights 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6
6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nd4 last book move 9...e5 10.Nb3 b5 [
10...Rg8 11.Nd5+/=] 11.Be2 [ 11.Nd5 Bg7+/-] 11...Be6 12.0-0 Bg7 13.Bg4 Qd7
14.Bf3 [ 14.Bf5 Bxf5 15.exf5 Ne7+/=] 14...0-0 15.Qd2 b4 16.Nd5 The knight
dominates 16...Rab8 17.a3 bxa3 18.Rxa3 a5 19.Rb1 a4 [ 19...f5!?+/= should be
examined more closely] 20.Rxa4+/- Nd4 21.Rxd4 [ Instead of 21.Nxd4 Qxa4
22.Nxe6 fxe6=/+] 21...exd4 22.Qxd4 [ 22.Nxd4 Bxd5 23.exd5 f5+/-] 22...Bxd5
[ 22...f5!? 23.Nf6+ Bxf6 24.Qxf6 Bxb3 25.Qg5+ Kh8 26.Qf6+ Kg8 27.exf5 Bxc2
28.Qg5+ Kh8 29.Qf6+ Kg8 30.Qg5+ Kh8 31.Qf6+ Kg8=] 23.Qxd5+/= Rb5 [ 23...f5
24.Qxf5 Qxf5 25.exf5+/=] 24.Qd3 [ 24.Bg4! Qxg4 25.Qxb5 Qxe4 26.Qd3+/-]
24...Rfb8 25.Rd1 R5b6 26.h3 Qc7 27.Ra1 [ 27.Rb1 Rb4+/=] 1/2-1/2

"Peter Billam" wrote in message
...
Greetings; this is a resend; my ISP's news server has for some weeks
not been uploading postings to the world (aaarrrgghh...) so I hope
this gets through.

Black can try to reach the Sveshnikov via the Four Knights: 1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 which avoids 2.Bb5 and
some of the Sveshnikov bylines. On the other hand, White is offered
a delayed Alapin 3. c3 where the early ...e6 restricts Black's
options, and White gets a big choice on move 6. including 6. Nxc6.

One of these choices is 6. Bg5, which gets bad press;
e.g. Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock just say
"6. Bg5 h6 (or 6... Qb6!?) 7. Bh4 Be7 threatening Nxe4"
or Nunn and Gallagher say of the 4Ns position:
"In some ways this is akin to the Kan and Taimanov systems since
Black leaves the f8-b4 diagonal open for his bishop, but instead
of playing ...a6 he develops a piece. Naturally this is in Black's
favour unless White has some direct method of exploiting the
omission of ..a6, so 6. Ndb5 is the only move to cause problems."

After 6. Bg5 what's the best line for Black ?
To me, it doesn't look quite as easy as these authors imply.
Black can play 6... d6 leading to the Richter-Rauzer attack of the
Classical variation, but that's not appealing to Sveshnikophiles.
Or, a. 6... h6 7. Bh4 d6 should lead to a sort of Richter-Rauzer
(where White does not usually meet ..h6 with Bh4)

Disclaimer: these are all Unauthoritative analyses ..
Following Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock:
b. 6... Qb6!? 7. Nxc6 can Black get anything going here ?
c. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Be7 8. Be2 Nxe4!? almost equalises...
A. 9. Nxe4?! Bxh4 10. Nd6+ Ke7 11. N4b5 (11. O-O? Kxd6! 12.
Nb5+ Ke5 13. Qd6+ Kf6 with advantage) 11... Qa5+ 12. Kf1
(12. b4?! Nxb4!) 12... a6 13. Nxc8+ Rhxc8 14. Nd6 Rc7
15. g3 Bf6 with advantage
B. 9. Bxe7! Nxc3
a. 10. Bxd8 Nxd1 11. Nxc6 bxc6
A. 12. Rxd1?! Kxd8 13. O-O Rb8 is unclear
B. 12. Ba5 Nxb2 13. Bc3 Na4 14. Bxg7 Rg8 15.
Be5!? and White has compensation for the pawn,
e.g. 15... Nc5 16. O-O (or 16. Bd4 d6 17. Bxc5
dc5 18. Rb1) 16... Ba6 17. Bxa6 Nxa6 18. Bd6
b. 10. Nxc6 bc6 11. Qd3?! (better 11. Bxd8 transposing
above) 11... Qxe7 12. Qxc3 O-O 13. O-O d5!? (or
13... Bd7) 14. Qxc6 Bd7 15. Qa6 Rfc8 16. Rac1 Qb4
17. b3 Rc3! 18. Rfd1 Qb6 with the initiative

Or, following Nunn and Gallagher's hint about the free f8-b4 diagonal:
d. 6... Bb4!?
e. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Bb4!?
A. 8. Ndb5? g5 9. Bg3 Nxe4 10. Nc7+ Kf1 11. Nxa8 Nxc3 12. bc3
Bxc3+ 13. Ke2 Nd4+ 14. Kd3 Qa5 15. Rb1 (15. Be2 Bb2!)
15... b5 idea b4, Ba6+ (Pachman)
B. 8. Nxc6! bc6
a. 9. Qd3
b. 9. Qd4 c5 10. Qd3 Bxc3 11. Qxc3?! Nxe4 12. Qxg7
Qxh4 13. Qh8+ Ke7 14. g3 Nxg3 15. fg3 Qe4+ 16. Kf2
Bb7 17. Qxh6 Qf3+ 18. Ke1 Qe4+ draw

Does Black have something incisive and convincing after 6. Bg5 ?

Regards, Peter Billam

--

Peter Billam www.pjb.com.au peter.billam at pjb.com.au
Original compositions, and arrangements of Bach, Schubert, Brahms...



  #4   Report Post  
Old March 10th 04, 11:33 PM
John Simmons
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

Hello Douglas,

Think you are right about 9...Bd7. Leads to a Richter-Rauzer type position
where white has wasted two tempos with his nd4 fandango, i.e 7Bg5 isn't very
impressive.

Bye John S
"Douglas L Stewart" wrote in message
...
Another possibility you will need to deal with is 7. Bg5 instead of 7.

Bf4.
Here is a game I played in that line. After 10 .. b5 I was nearly

laughing
out loud. I really wanted to say "I adjust" and move White's knight on b3
to a3! I think 9 .. Bd7 is a better move - but I just couldn't resist 9

...
e5.

Markley,J (1938) - Stewart,D (1777) [B45]
Louisiana Championship Baton Rouge, LA (5), 31.08.2003
[Fritz 8 (300s)]

B45: Sicilian Four Knights 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6
6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nd4 last book move 9...e5 10.Nb3 b5 [
10...Rg8 11.Nd5+/=] 11.Be2 [ 11.Nd5 Bg7+/-] 11...Be6 12.0-0 Bg7 13.Bg4 Qd7
14.Bf3 [ 14.Bf5 Bxf5 15.exf5 Ne7+/=] 14...0-0 15.Qd2 b4 16.Nd5 The knight
dominates 16...Rab8 17.a3 bxa3 18.Rxa3 a5 19.Rb1 a4 [ 19...f5!?+/= should

be
examined more closely] 20.Rxa4+/- Nd4 21.Rxd4 [ Instead of 21.Nxd4 Qxa4
22.Nxe6 fxe6=/+] 21...exd4 22.Qxd4 [ 22.Nxd4 Bxd5 23.exd5 f5+/-] 22...Bxd5
[ 22...f5!? 23.Nf6+ Bxf6 24.Qxf6 Bxb3 25.Qg5+ Kh8 26.Qf6+ Kg8 27.exf5 Bxc2
28.Qg5+ Kh8 29.Qf6+ Kg8 30.Qg5+ Kh8 31.Qf6+ Kg8=] 23.Qxd5+/= Rb5 [ 23...f5
24.Qxf5 Qxf5 25.exf5+/=] 24.Qd3 [ 24.Bg4! Qxg4 25.Qxb5 Qxe4 26.Qd3+/-]
24...Rfb8 25.Rd1 R5b6 26.h3 Qc7 27.Ra1 [ 27.Rb1 Rb4+/=] 1/2-1/2

"Peter Billam" wrote in message
...
Greetings; this is a resend; my ISP's news server has for some weeks
not been uploading postings to the world (aaarrrgghh...) so I hope
this gets through.

Black can try to reach the Sveshnikov via the Four Knights: 1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 which avoids 2.Bb5 and
some of the Sveshnikov bylines. On the other hand, White is offered
a delayed Alapin 3. c3 where the early ...e6 restricts Black's
options, and White gets a big choice on move 6. including 6. Nxc6.

One of these choices is 6. Bg5, which gets bad press;
e.g. Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock just say
"6. Bg5 h6 (or 6... Qb6!?) 7. Bh4 Be7 threatening Nxe4"
or Nunn and Gallagher say of the 4Ns position:
"In some ways this is akin to the Kan and Taimanov systems since
Black leaves the f8-b4 diagonal open for his bishop, but instead
of playing ...a6 he develops a piece. Naturally this is in Black's
favour unless White has some direct method of exploiting the
omission of ..a6, so 6. Ndb5 is the only move to cause problems."

After 6. Bg5 what's the best line for Black ?
To me, it doesn't look quite as easy as these authors imply.
Black can play 6... d6 leading to the Richter-Rauzer attack of the
Classical variation, but that's not appealing to Sveshnikophiles.
Or, a. 6... h6 7. Bh4 d6 should lead to a sort of Richter-Rauzer
(where White does not usually meet ..h6 with Bh4)

Disclaimer: these are all Unauthoritative analyses ..
Following Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock:
b. 6... Qb6!? 7. Nxc6 can Black get anything going here ?
c. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Be7 8. Be2 Nxe4!? almost equalises...
A. 9. Nxe4?! Bxh4 10. Nd6+ Ke7 11. N4b5 (11. O-O? Kxd6! 12.
Nb5+ Ke5 13. Qd6+ Kf6 with advantage) 11... Qa5+ 12. Kf1
(12. b4?! Nxb4!) 12... a6 13. Nxc8+ Rhxc8 14. Nd6 Rc7
15. g3 Bf6 with advantage
B. 9. Bxe7! Nxc3
a. 10. Bxd8 Nxd1 11. Nxc6 bxc6
A. 12. Rxd1?! Kxd8 13. O-O Rb8 is unclear
B. 12. Ba5 Nxb2 13. Bc3 Na4 14. Bxg7 Rg8 15.
Be5!? and White has compensation for the pawn,
e.g. 15... Nc5 16. O-O (or 16. Bd4 d6 17. Bxc5
dc5 18. Rb1) 16... Ba6 17. Bxa6 Nxa6 18. Bd6
b. 10. Nxc6 bc6 11. Qd3?! (better 11. Bxd8 transposing
above) 11... Qxe7 12. Qxc3 O-O 13. O-O d5!? (or
13... Bd7) 14. Qxc6 Bd7 15. Qa6 Rfc8 16. Rac1 Qb4
17. b3 Rc3! 18. Rfd1 Qb6 with the initiative

Or, following Nunn and Gallagher's hint about the free f8-b4 diagonal:
d. 6... Bb4!?
e. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Bb4!?
A. 8. Ndb5? g5 9. Bg3 Nxe4 10. Nc7+ Kf1 11. Nxa8 Nxc3 12. bc3
Bxc3+ 13. Ke2 Nd4+ 14. Kd3 Qa5 15. Rb1 (15. Be2 Bb2!)
15... b5 idea b4, Ba6+ (Pachman)
B. 8. Nxc6! bc6
a. 9. Qd3
b. 9. Qd4 c5 10. Qd3 Bxc3 11. Qxc3?! Nxe4 12. Qxg7
Qxh4 13. Qh8+ Ke7 14. g3 Nxg3 15. fg3 Qe4+ 16. Kf2
Bb7 17. Qxh6 Qf3+ 18. Ke1 Qe4+ draw

Does Black have something incisive and convincing after 6. Bg5 ?

Regards, Peter Billam

--

Peter Billam www.pjb.com.au peter.billam at pjb.com.au
Original compositions, and arrangements of Bach, Schubert, Brahms...





  #5   Report Post  
Old March 10th 04, 11:42 PM
John Simmons
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

Hello,

What's the problem with 6... Qb6 7. Nxc6 pxN?, otherwise 7.Nb3 Bb4 leads to
known positions which are ok for black. Assume not worried about Bxf6 has
white can force this pawn structure in most Sveshnikov lines.

Bye John S
"Peter Billam" wrote in message
...
Greetings; this is a resend; my ISP's news server has for some weeks
not been uploading postings to the world (aaarrrgghh...) so I hope
this gets through.

Black can try to reach the Sveshnikov via the Four Knights: 1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 which avoids 2.Bb5 and
some of the Sveshnikov bylines. On the other hand, White is offered
a delayed Alapin 3. c3 where the early ...e6 restricts Black's
options, and White gets a big choice on move 6. including 6. Nxc6.

One of these choices is 6. Bg5, which gets bad press;
e.g. Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock just say
"6. Bg5 h6 (or 6... Qb6!?) 7. Bh4 Be7 threatening Nxe4"
or Nunn and Gallagher say of the 4Ns position:
"In some ways this is akin to the Kan and Taimanov systems since
Black leaves the f8-b4 diagonal open for his bishop, but instead
of playing ...a6 he develops a piece. Naturally this is in Black's
favour unless White has some direct method of exploiting the
omission of ..a6, so 6. Ndb5 is the only move to cause problems."

After 6. Bg5 what's the best line for Black ?
To me, it doesn't look quite as easy as these authors imply.
Black can play 6... d6 leading to the Richter-Rauzer attack of the
Classical variation, but that's not appealing to Sveshnikophiles.
Or, a. 6... h6 7. Bh4 d6 should lead to a sort of Richter-Rauzer
(where White does not usually meet ..h6 with Bh4)

Disclaimer: these are all Unauthoritative analyses ..
Following Wade, Speelman, Povah and Blackstock:
b. 6... Qb6!? 7. Nxc6 can Black get anything going here ?
c. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Be7 8. Be2 Nxe4!? almost equalises...
A. 9. Nxe4?! Bxh4 10. Nd6+ Ke7 11. N4b5 (11. O-O? Kxd6! 12.
Nb5+ Ke5 13. Qd6+ Kf6 with advantage) 11... Qa5+ 12. Kf1
(12. b4?! Nxb4!) 12... a6 13. Nxc8+ Rhxc8 14. Nd6 Rc7
15. g3 Bf6 with advantage
B. 9. Bxe7! Nxc3
a. 10. Bxd8 Nxd1 11. Nxc6 bxc6
A. 12. Rxd1?! Kxd8 13. O-O Rb8 is unclear
B. 12. Ba5 Nxb2 13. Bc3 Na4 14. Bxg7 Rg8 15.
Be5!? and White has compensation for the pawn,
e.g. 15... Nc5 16. O-O (or 16. Bd4 d6 17. Bxc5
dc5 18. Rb1) 16... Ba6 17. Bxa6 Nxa6 18. Bd6
b. 10. Nxc6 bc6 11. Qd3?! (better 11. Bxd8 transposing
above) 11... Qxe7 12. Qxc3 O-O 13. O-O d5!? (or
13... Bd7) 14. Qxc6 Bd7 15. Qa6 Rfc8 16. Rac1 Qb4
17. b3 Rc3! 18. Rfd1 Qb6 with the initiative

Or, following Nunn and Gallagher's hint about the free f8-b4 diagonal:
d. 6... Bb4!?
e. 6... h6 7. Bh4 Bb4!?
A. 8. Ndb5? g5 9. Bg3 Nxe4 10. Nc7+ Kf1 11. Nxa8 Nxc3 12. bc3
Bxc3+ 13. Ke2 Nd4+ 14. Kd3 Qa5 15. Rb1 (15. Be2 Bb2!)
15... b5 idea b4, Ba6+ (Pachman)
B. 8. Nxc6! bc6
a. 9. Qd3
b. 9. Qd4 c5 10. Qd3 Bxc3 11. Qxc3?! Nxe4 12. Qxg7
Qxh4 13. Qh8+ Ke7 14. g3 Nxg3 15. fg3 Qe4+ 16. Kf2
Bb7 17. Qxh6 Qf3+ 18. Ke1 Qe4+ draw

Does Black have something incisive and convincing after 6. Bg5 ?

Regards, Peter Billam

--

Peter Billam www.pjb.com.au peter.billam at pjb.com.au
Original compositions, and arrangements of Bach, Schubert, Brahms...





  #6   Report Post  
Old March 11th 04, 02:53 AM
Randy Bauer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

The book in question is Nunn and Gallagher's "Beating the Sicilian 3" where
they discuss thge Sicilian Four Knights and make this quote in the
introduction to chapter 9.

Randy Bauer

"Mr. Plow" wrote in message
...

By the way, what is the Nunn & Gallagher book you are referring to?
Raetsky's book, "Meeting 1...e4", doesn't even mention 6.Bg5, although

this
is probably the most common move played by players under 2000.




  #7   Report Post  
Old March 11th 04, 04:35 AM
Mr. Plow
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sicilian 4Ns 6. Bg5

Hey, I have that book somewhere! Actually, it's the 2nd edition. I haven't
looked at it in years and forgot I had it. I'll have to dust it off.

Thanks.

BTW, enjoyed your article on the Botvinnik System at silman.com.



"Randy Bauer" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s01...
The book in question is Nunn and Gallagher's "Beating the Sicilian 3"

where
they discuss thge Sicilian Four Knights and make this quote in the
introduction to chapter 9.

Randy Bauer

"Mr. Plow" wrote in message
...

By the way, what is the Nunn & Gallagher book you are referring to?
Raetsky's book, "Meeting 1...e4", doesn't even mention 6.Bg5, although

this
is probably the most common move played by players under 2000.






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