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Old March 15th 04, 10:10 AM
Ralph Jones
 
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Default Question on analysis

I just recently had a match on FICS where my opponent disco'd on me after I
beat back his rather hasty attack (It was a Blitz 2 12 game). Afterwards I
decided to analyze the game (with Crafty, I was too lazy to reboot in
windows to use Fritz) and have a question about one of Crafty's recommended
moves.

So I thought perhaps somebody here could explain the logic to me. I'm
pretty new to chess (my rating is in the toilet), so I'll welcome any
criticism (I am aware of the blunder I made leaving a Bishop unprotected).

The recommended move in question is 10. ... Bxc1. (I played 10. ... Nc5) To
me it seems like needlessly sacrificing a valuable piece if I followed
Crafty's advice.

[Event "FICS game"]
[Site "linux"]
[Date "2004.03.14"]
[Round "-"]
[White "-------"]
[Black "RMJones"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
[Time "01:30:00"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[Mode "ICS"]

1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nf6 3. Qxe5+ Be7 4. Qg5 O-O 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qg4 d5 7. Qf4 Bg5
8. Qf3 Nc6
9. d3 Nxe5 10. Qd1 Nc5 11. d4 Bg4 12. f3 Nxf3+ 13. gxf3 Qe8+ 14. Ne2 Bxf3
15. b4 Ne4
16. Nd2 Bh4+
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Old March 15th 04, 03:27 PM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
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Default Question on analysis

Ralph Jones wrote:

The recommended move in question is 10. ... Bxc1. (I played 10. ... Nc5) To
me it seems like needlessly sacrificing a valuable piece if I followed
Crafty's advice.

1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nf6 3. Qxe5+ Be7 4. Qg5 O-O 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qg4 d5 7. Qf4 Bg5
8. Qf3 Nc6
9. d3 Nxe5 10. Qd1 Nc5


If you count the pieces after 10...Bxc1 11. Qxc1 (11. dxe4 Bxb2)
11...Nf6 you'll see no piece is lost. 10...Nc5 loses a piece to the
pawn fork 11. d4.

In the 10th move, there is only one square for the Ne4 to retreat to
if Black doesn't want to lose material: d6. (Black can sacrifice on
f2, but that's a different matter.) The knight can't retreat to f6
because then the Bg5 hangs. It looks that Crafty thought f6 to be a
better place for the knight than d6, so it solves the problem of the
Bg5 first.

Claus-Juergen
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Old March 15th 04, 09:04 PM
Mike Ogush
 
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Default Question on analysis

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:27:11 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Claus=2DJ=FCrgen?=
Heigl wrote:

Ralph Jones wrote:

The recommended move in question is 10. ... Bxc1. (I played 10. ... Nc5) To
me it seems like needlessly sacrificing a valuable piece if I followed
Crafty's advice.

1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nf6 3. Qxe5+ Be7 4. Qg5 O-O 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qg4 d5 7. Qf4 Bg5
8. Qf3 Nc6
9. d3 Nxe5 10. Qd1 Nc5


If you count the pieces after 10...Bxc1 11. Qxc1 (11. dxe4 Bxb2)
11...Nf6 you'll see no piece is lost. 10...Nc5 loses a piece to the
pawn fork 11. d4.


Black gets sufficient compensation after the pawn fork even when White
plays the best moves: 11.d4 Bf4 12.Bxg5! Qxg5 13.Ne2 Nc4 14.dxc5 Bxe2
15.Bxe2 Nxb2 15.Qd2 Qxg2 16.Rf1 Rfe8 Here Black has two pawns for the
knight, but Black has compensation for the material defeicit because
White has weaker pawns (they are all isolated), Black controls the
e-file and White's king is stuck in the center. Fritz evaluates the
position as equal.

After 10...Bxc1 11.Qxc1 Black can either play 11...Nd6 12.d4 Nec4
13.Bd3 Bf5 or 11...Nf6 12.d4 Nc6 13.c3 Re8+ 14.Ne2 Ne7 and in both
cases Black has a silight advayage due to White's king being stuck in
the center.


In the 10th move, there is only one square for the Ne4 to retreat to
if Black doesn't want to lose material: d6. (Black can sacrifice on
f2, but that's a different matter.) The knight can't retreat to f6
because then the Bg5 hangs. It looks that Crafty thought f6 to be a
better place for the knight than d6, so it solves the problem of the
Bg5 first.

Claus-Juergen



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Old March 16th 04, 12:13 AM
Claus-Jürgen Heigl
 
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Default Question on analysis

Mike Ogush wrote:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:27:11 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Claus=2DJ=FCrgen?=
Heigl wrote:

Ralph Jones wrote:


Black gets sufficient compensation after the pawn fork even when White
plays the best moves: 11.d4 Bf4 12.Bxg5! Qxg5 13.Ne2 Nc4 14.dxc5 Bxe2
15.Bxe2 Nxb2 15.Qd2 Qxg2 16.Rf1 Rfe8


After 10...Bxc1 11.Qxc1 Black can either play 11...Nd6 12.d4 Nec4
13.Bd3 Bf5 or 11...Nf6 12.d4 Nc6 13.c3 Re8+ 14.Ne2 Ne7 and in both
cases Black has a silight advayage due to White's king being stuck in
the center.


Agreed. I think 10...Nxf2 is where the fun starts.

11. Bxg5 Qxg5 12. Kxf2 Ng4+ 13. Ke1 Qe5+ followed by Qxb2 with
advantage.

11. Kxf2 Ng4+ 12. Ke1 Qf6 13. Nf3 (13. Nh3 Ne3 14. Bxe3 Bxe3 15. Nc3
Bxh3 with advantage) 13...Bh4+ 14. g3 Re8+ 15. Qe2 (15. Be2 Qxf3 16.
Rf1 Qg2 17. gxh4 Nxh2 18. Kd2 Bg4 -+) 15...Bxg3+ 16. hxg3 Bd7 17. Kd2
Rxe2+ 18. Bxe2 d4 (threat Bc6) 19. Rf1 Ne3 20. Rf2 Qd6 with advantage.

Claus-Juergen
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Old March 17th 04, 06:46 PM
Ron
 
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Default Question on analysis

In article ,
Ralph Jones wrote:


The recommended move in question is 10. ... Bxc1. (I played 10. ... Nc5) To
me it seems like needlessly sacrificing a valuable piece if I followed
Crafty's advice.


1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nf6 3. Qxe5+ Be7 4. Qg5 O-O 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qg4 d5 7. Qf4 Bg5
8. Qf3 Nc6
9. d3 Nxe5 10. Qd1 Nc5 11. d4 Bg4 12. f3 Nxf3+ 13. gxf3 Qe8+ 14. Ne2 Bxf3
15. b4 Ne4
16. Nd2 Bh4+


Not really. If white recaptures the bishop, you retreat the knight and
you've just exchanged a pair of minor pieces. While you'd rather not
exchange pieces here (since reduces the pressure on white's king) but
with proper defense you lose material:

11. d4 Bg4 12. Be2 Bxc1 13. Qxc1 Bxe2 14. Kxe2
Ncd3 15. cxd3

And black's compensation for the piece is almost certainly insufficient.

If white captures the knight, instead, you can play Bxb2 winning the
rook.
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