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  #1   Report Post  
Old September 24th 05, 12:48 PM
Gilles Garrigues
 
Posts: n/a
Default GUI8 / Fritz8 buggy forever ... ?

Chessbase has not fixed some major bugs in Fritz8.

Example : the notorious Ctl+D (= insert diagram) in game annotation which
does not work properly (= invisible in game notation unless you print the
game !) under Fritz8 (last update : january 2005 ?!); it was only recently
(june 2005) corrected in CB9.

Chessbase never replied to my mail on that subject and I assume that today
their reply would be "buy Fritz9" (assuming they corrected that bug at
last).

It is sad that they lack so much discipline in program maintenance...


  #2   Report Post  
Old September 24th 05, 06:36 PM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Gilles,

I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB 9
when I saw your post.

You must recognize the two immutable laws of computer chess:

1. ChessBase doesn't give a crap about you or me or anyone else. They're on
top of the chess software world, with minimal competition. Their customer
service is nonexistent. Back when Mr. Lopez was doing support for them you
could get any problem solved. Now you're out of luck.

2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB problems
from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always side with his fellow
Visigoths. Generally the posters here will try to blame you for the problem.
In this instance you forgot a command so you don't deserve an answer. That's
the way it goes.

It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic program you
only have one printing option for diagrams: one size, with some CB drivel at
the top of the page. No annotation capability. Forget about printing index
cards for instructional purposes.

I imagine the way to do this is through the "Diagram List" function, but the
UNhelp file doesn't tell you how to add diagrams to the list, or how to
create a diagram list.

I should take consolation, however, in CB9's capability for inserting videos
within diagrams.

Angelo DePalma


"Gilles Garrigues" wrote in message
...
Chessbase has not fixed some major bugs in Fritz8.

Example : the notorious Ctl+D (= insert diagram) in game annotation which
does not work properly (= invisible in game notation unless you print the
game !) under Fritz8 (last update : january 2005 ?!); it was only recently
(june 2005) corrected in CB9.

Chessbase never replied to my mail on that subject and I assume that today
their reply would be "buy Fritz9" (assuming they corrected that bug at
last).

It is sad that they lack so much discipline in program maintenance...



  #3   Report Post  
Old September 25th 05, 04:02 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dear CeeBee,

I purchase new versions of CB because I expect the programmers will
eventually fix the bugs. I've finally learned my lesson and will no longer
upgrade, no matter what their marketing people promise.

Despite having plenty of opportunities to do so, I've never accused you or
anyone else here of being a shill for ChessBase GmbH. I also know very well
the difference between the US distributor and the developers. My reason for
constantly mentioning CB USA is because they are wonderful people who have
gone out of their way to help me several times, even when my problems arise
out of my own negligence or ignorance. This is in stark contrast to CB GmbH,
which ignores emails or drops the ball even when I struggle to write them in
German. I believe I've posted the thread from a recent "customer service"
incident to show I am not a raving lunatic.

When I ask for information or help here I am always polite, deferential, a
perfect citizen, until someone (inevitably) blames me, my computer, or the
alignment of the planets for problems in CB products. Moreover I am always
thankful and polite when someone helps me here. I do tend to become
irritated when expert users (I assume you are) brush off others' problems,
as you did with Gilles. And at your favorite response, that the poster is
the only person experiencing a particular problem. Tell me, if no-one else
was experiencing problems with CB 8 then why did CB write a patch for that
program, so it would work properly with WindowsXP? If nobody but Angelo
DePalma was experiencing problems with Shredder 7, then why did CB write a
multi-MB patch for that program to improve engine stability (and probably a
dozen other things)?

I could go on and on about dozens and dozens of reasonable functions and
improvements which CB has either screwed up or not implemented in its
various products. But the real point here is not CB, the weaknesses of which
are apparent to any reasonable customer. My main gripe is about certain
posters who prefer insulting others when, perhaps, not saying anything at
all would be more prudent. If your aim was to show how much more you know
about CB products than the average Joe who plunks down $300 for a chess
database, fine. You've convinced me.

Sincerely,

Angelo DePalma

"CeeBee" wrote in message
2.164...
"Angelo DePalma" wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:


I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB
9


Why? Just a few lines later in your message you claim the people here
"never
give you any sympathy for your CB problems", and "generally the posters
here
will try to blame you for the problem".

Why would posters here help someone like you, who is insulting them first
and then asking them for help after that?



2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB
problems from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always side
with his fellow Visigoths.



I don't post to Usenet to pass on sympathy. I post to usenet to find
information and give information, and what the latter concerns, you have a
long way to go before you will match my record on giving information. With
you it's mostly demanding information - followed by insult if the answer
doesn't suit you.

The petty way you are venting your obvious frustration about me not
sharing
your obsessions with ChessBase is childish at most.
Anyone daring to disagree with you that ChessBase products are utter
pieces
of software crap is routinely branded as a chessbase puppet. No wonder the
answers you get become increasingly filled with irritation about your
continious whining and eventually die out altogether.

In your case, plenty of times you have gotten truckloads of information
from
a whole range of people, including me. The same people you are now
insulting.

Especially your endless rants concerning the majority of problems only
_you_
seem to encounter and no one else are becoming very stale.


It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic program


If there's something pathetic, it's your behaviour.

You have done nothing but complain over _three_ consecutive versions of
ChessBase you've bought, yet you always buy the next release.

You started to hit this group with complaints about ChessBase 7 not
working
properly. It didn't stop you from updating to ChessBase 8, and you have
been
constantly whining about that version also, it's repulsive behaviour, its
bugs, how you were ripped off by chessbase by paying such a high price for
the update, mixing up the services of a mere distributor (ChessBaseUSA)
with
the software creator (ChessBase GmbH) etc. And now it's ChessBase 9.

How long do people have to listen to you, that you bought the new version
_again_ and are experiencing weird problems _again_, and that it's the
fault
of ChessBase _again_ and that you consider _again_ not to buy any
ChessBase
software _again_?

What are you exactly? A Chessbase stalker? Or are you trying to replace
Sam
Sloan as the local clown and the regular pain in the ass?

Dump ChessBase, download SCID or something other for free, and stop that
compulsive posting. Your messages start bordering on plain trolling.


--
CeeBee

***The cookie has spoken***



  #4   Report Post  
Old September 25th 05, 11:45 AM
Michael Wäsch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi,

calm down, you are perfectly right. Here in Germany we have the same
problems with Chessbase. If you have serious problems with your
product the Chessbase service very often is the totally wrong place to
ask for help. The most effective way is to ask experienced users in
the chat and very often they can and will help you out. But be careful
with your emotions about Chessbase there. They do not tolerate any cb
criticism there and I saw people getting guested or even banned due to
accusing cb selling expensive products and then leaving the customer
alone with their problems - although they were perfectly right. So do
not be rude, calm down first and just state that you have a problem
and want help. Prepare for it - people who yould help you surely want
to know the following: CB-product causing problems (write down error
messages etc), your computer configuration (cpu, ram etc) ...

And if you really have to deal with only German-speaking service
people, ask me, I will translate it for you if I can´t help you in the
first place.

Mike

"Angelo DePalma" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ...
Dear CeeBee,

I purchase new versions of CB because I expect the programmers will
eventually fix the bugs. I've finally learned my lesson and will no
longer upgrade, no matter what their marketing people promise.

Despite having plenty of opportunities to do so, I've never accused
you or anyone else here of being a shill for ChessBase GmbH. I also
know very well the difference between the US distributor and the
developers. My reason for constantly mentioning CB USA is because
they are wonderful people who have gone out of their way to help me
several times, even when my problems arise out of my own negligence
or ignorance. This is in stark contrast to CB GmbH, which ignores
emails or drops the ball even when I struggle to write them in
German. I believe I've posted the thread from a recent "customer
service" incident to show I am not a raving lunatic.

When I ask for information or help here I am always polite,
deferential, a perfect citizen, until someone (inevitably) blames
me, my computer, or the alignment of the planets for problems in CB
products. Moreover I am always thankful and polite when someone
helps me here. I do tend to become irritated when expert users (I
assume you are) brush off others' problems, as you did with Gilles.
And at your favorite response, that the poster is the only person
experiencing a particular problem. Tell me, if no-one else was
experiencing problems with CB 8 then why did CB write a patch for
that program, so it would work properly with WindowsXP? If nobody
but Angelo DePalma was experiencing problems with Shredder 7, then
why did CB write a multi-MB patch for that program to improve engine
stability (and probably a dozen other things)?

I could go on and on about dozens and dozens of reasonable functions
and improvements which CB has either screwed up or not implemented
in its various products. But the real point here is not CB, the
weaknesses of which are apparent to any reasonable customer. My main
gripe is about certain posters who prefer insulting others when,
perhaps, not saying anything at all would be more prudent. If your
aim was to show how much more you know about CB products than the
average Joe who plunks down $300 for a chess database, fine. You've
convinced me.

Sincerely,

Angelo DePalma

"CeeBee" wrote in message
2.164...
"Angelo DePalma" wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:


I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing
from CB
9


Why? Just a few lines later in your message you claim the people
here "never
give you any sympathy for your CB problems", and "generally the
posters here
will try to blame you for the problem".

Why would posters here help someone like you, who is insulting them
first
and then asking them for help after that?



2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB
problems from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always
side
with his fellow Visigoths.



I don't post to Usenet to pass on sympathy. I post to usenet to
find
information and give information, and what the latter concerns, you
have a
long way to go before you will match my record on giving
information. With
you it's mostly demanding information - followed by insult if the
answer
doesn't suit you.

The petty way you are venting your obvious frustration about me not
sharing
your obsessions with ChessBase is childish at most.
Anyone daring to disagree with you that ChessBase products are
utter pieces
of software crap is routinely branded as a chessbase puppet. No
wonder the
answers you get become increasingly filled with irritation about
your
continious whining and eventually die out altogether.

In your case, plenty of times you have gotten truckloads of
information from
a whole range of people, including me. The same people you are now
insulting.

Especially your endless rants concerning the majority of problems
only _you_
seem to encounter and no one else are becoming very stale.


It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic
program


If there's something pathetic, it's your behaviour.

You have done nothing but complain over _three_ consecutive
versions of
ChessBase you've bought, yet you always buy the next release.

You started to hit this group with complaints about ChessBase 7 not
working
properly. It didn't stop you from updating to ChessBase 8, and you
have been
constantly whining about that version also, it's repulsive
behaviour, its
bugs, how you were ripped off by chessbase by paying such a high
price for
the update, mixing up the services of a mere distributor
(ChessBaseUSA) with
the software creator (ChessBase GmbH) etc. And now it's ChessBase
9.

How long do people have to listen to you, that you bought the new
version
_again_ and are experiencing weird problems _again_, and that it's
the fault
of ChessBase _again_ and that you consider _again_ not to buy any
ChessBase
software _again_?

What are you exactly? A Chessbase stalker? Or are you trying to
replace Sam
Sloan as the local clown and the regular pain in the ass?

Dump ChessBase, download SCID or something other for free, and stop
that
compulsive posting. Your messages start bordering on plain
trolling.


--
CeeBee

***The cookie has spoken***





  #5   Report Post  
Old September 25th 05, 07:08 PM
Falkentyne
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:36:53 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
wrote:


Gilles,

I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB 9
when I saw your post.

You must recognize the two immutable laws of computer chess:

1. ChessBase doesn't give a crap about you or me or anyone else. They're on
top of the chess software world, with minimal competition. Their customer
service is nonexistent. Back when Mr. Lopez was doing support for them you
could get any problem solved. Now you're out of luck.


I wouldn't say that.
Chessbase not only replied to my email about my problem with Junior 9
not updating along with the newest GUI8 patch, they ACTUALLY SENT ME
THE UPDATED J9 ENGINE FILE in reply, to help me get it working.

(Although I had already by that time got it working by manually
extracting the patch file, thanks to another poster in the NG).

So your statement about their support being nonexistant is hyperbole.
Perhaps it needs improvement, but its definitely not nonexistant....


  #6   Report Post  
Old September 25th 05, 09:11 PM
smithers
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Op 24 Sep 2005 14:37:10 GMT schreef CeeBee:

"Gilles Garrigues" wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:




It doesn't work properly because you don't insert a diagram with CTRL-D in
Fritz 8. With CTRL-D you offer a draw.

There is no key combination assigned to the "insert diagram" command,


You're wrong. In the window where you make notes (the window pops up at
Ctrl+A), Ctrl+D means: insert diagram
  #7   Report Post  
Old September 25th 05, 10:17 PM
Gilles Garrigues
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Angelo for your long answer.

I could also point out many bugs in CB8 which were never corrected (make a
search with Google and you will find my posts) or the Endgame tablebases for
KRPP-KR (which CB sold for money in DVD Endgame Turbo2) which were corrupted
(1 file), a fact which was never mentioned on their website (they ended up
sending me a patch however). Any way good luck to Fritz9 !

PS : Maybe some day the creators of Zappa or Fruit will give CB a rude
awakening.

"Angelo DePalma" a écrit dans le message
de news: ...

Gilles,

I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB 9
when I saw your post.

You must recognize the two immutable laws of computer chess:

1. ChessBase doesn't give a crap about you or me or anyone else. They're
on top of the chess software world, with minimal competition. Their
customer service is nonexistent. Back when Mr. Lopez was doing support for
them you could get any problem solved. Now you're out of luck.

2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB problems
from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always side with his
fellow Visigoths. Generally the posters here will try to blame you for the
problem. In this instance you forgot a command so you don't deserve an
answer. That's the way it goes.

It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic program you
only have one printing option for diagrams: one size, with some CB drivel
at the top of the page. No annotation capability. Forget about printing
index cards for instructional purposes.

I imagine the way to do this is through the "Diagram List" function, but
the UNhelp file doesn't tell you how to add diagrams to the list, or how
to create a diagram list.

I should take consolation, however, in CB9's capability for inserting
videos within diagrams.

Angelo DePalma


"Gilles Garrigues" wrote in message
...
Chessbase has not fixed some major bugs in Fritz8.

Example : the notorious Ctl+D (= insert diagram) in game annotation which
does not work properly (= invisible in game notation unless you print the
game !) under Fritz8 (last update : january 2005 ?!); it was only
recently (june 2005) corrected in CB9.

Chessbase never replied to my mail on that subject and I assume that
today their reply would be "buy Fritz9" (assuming they corrected that bug
at last).

It is sad that they lack so much discipline in program maintenance...





  #8   Report Post  
Old September 26th 05, 02:31 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Michael,

Vielen dank. Ich moechte ChessBase auf (mein schlimmes) deutsch schreiben.
Deutsch (und franzoesich, und italienish) ist mein "hobby."

Angelo

"Michael Wäsch" wrote in message
...
Hi,

calm down, you are perfectly right. Here in Germany we have the same
problems with Chessbase. If you have serious problems with your product
the Chessbase service very often is the totally wrong place to ask for
help. The most effective way is to ask experienced users in the chat and
very often they can and will help you out. But be careful with your
emotions about Chessbase there. They do not tolerate any cb criticism
there and I saw people getting guested or even banned due to accusing cb
selling expensive products and then leaving the customer alone with their
problems - although they were perfectly right. So do not be rude, calm
down first and just state that you have a problem and want help. Prepare
for it - people who yould help you surely want to know the following:
CB-product causing problems (write down error messages etc), your computer
configuration (cpu, ram etc) ...

And if you really have to deal with only German-speaking service people,
ask me, I will translate it for you if I can´t help you in the first
place.

Mike

"Angelo DePalma" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Dear CeeBee,

I purchase new versions of CB because I expect the programmers will
eventually fix the bugs. I've finally learned my lesson and will no
longer upgrade, no matter what their marketing people promise.

Despite having plenty of opportunities to do so, I've never accused you
or anyone else here of being a shill for ChessBase GmbH. I also know very
well the difference between the US distributor and the developers. My
reason for constantly mentioning CB USA is because they are wonderful
people who have gone out of their way to help me several times, even when
my problems arise out of my own negligence or ignorance. This is in stark
contrast to CB GmbH, which ignores emails or drops the ball even when I
struggle to write them in German. I believe I've posted the thread from a
recent "customer service" incident to show I am not a raving lunatic.

When I ask for information or help here I am always polite, deferential,
a perfect citizen, until someone (inevitably) blames me, my computer, or
the alignment of the planets for problems in CB products. Moreover I am
always thankful and polite when someone helps me here. I do tend to
become irritated when expert users (I assume you are) brush off others'
problems, as you did with Gilles. And at your favorite response, that the
poster is the only person experiencing a particular problem. Tell me, if
no-one else was experiencing problems with CB 8 then why did CB write a
patch for that program, so it would work properly with WindowsXP? If
nobody but Angelo DePalma was experiencing problems with Shredder 7, then
why did CB write a multi-MB patch for that program to improve engine
stability (and probably a dozen other things)?

I could go on and on about dozens and dozens of reasonable functions and
improvements which CB has either screwed up or not implemented in its
various products. But the real point here is not CB, the weaknesses of
which are apparent to any reasonable customer. My main gripe is about
certain posters who prefer insulting others when, perhaps, not saying
anything at all would be more prudent. If your aim was to show how much
more you know about CB products than the average Joe who plunks down $300
for a chess database, fine. You've convinced me.

Sincerely,

Angelo DePalma

"CeeBee" wrote in message
2.164...
"Angelo DePalma" wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:


I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB
9

Why? Just a few lines later in your message you claim the people here
"never
give you any sympathy for your CB problems", and "generally the posters
here
will try to blame you for the problem".

Why would posters here help someone like you, who is insulting them
first
and then asking them for help after that?



2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB
problems from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always side
with his fellow Visigoths.


I don't post to Usenet to pass on sympathy. I post to usenet to find
information and give information, and what the latter concerns, you have
a
long way to go before you will match my record on giving information.
With
you it's mostly demanding information - followed by insult if the answer
doesn't suit you.

The petty way you are venting your obvious frustration about me not
sharing
your obsessions with ChessBase is childish at most.
Anyone daring to disagree with you that ChessBase products are utter
pieces
of software crap is routinely branded as a chessbase puppet. No wonder
the
answers you get become increasingly filled with irritation about your
continious whining and eventually die out altogether.

In your case, plenty of times you have gotten truckloads of information
from
a whole range of people, including me. The same people you are now
insulting.

Especially your endless rants concerning the majority of problems only
_you_
seem to encounter and no one else are becoming very stale.


It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic program

If there's something pathetic, it's your behaviour.

You have done nothing but complain over _three_ consecutive versions of
ChessBase you've bought, yet you always buy the next release.

You started to hit this group with complaints about ChessBase 7 not
working
properly. It didn't stop you from updating to ChessBase 8, and you have
been
constantly whining about that version also, it's repulsive behaviour,
its
bugs, how you were ripped off by chessbase by paying such a high price
for
the update, mixing up the services of a mere distributor (ChessBaseUSA)
with
the software creator (ChessBase GmbH) etc. And now it's ChessBase 9.

How long do people have to listen to you, that you bought the new
version
_again_ and are experiencing weird problems _again_, and that it's the
fault
of ChessBase _again_ and that you consider _again_ not to buy any
ChessBase
software _again_?

What are you exactly? A Chessbase stalker? Or are you trying to replace
Sam
Sloan as the local clown and the regular pain in the ass?

Dump ChessBase, download SCID or something other for free, and stop that
compulsive posting. Your messages start bordering on plain trolling.


--
CeeBee

***The cookie has spoken***







  #9   Report Post  
Old September 26th 05, 02:32 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
Default


What occurred in my case was the fellow at CB tried to email me the patch
twice, but Gmail does not allow executable files to pass through. Someone
from this newsgroup sent me the link to the update as well as instructions,
which worked great. The CB representative could have done the same but chose
not to.

"Falkentyne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:36:53 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
wrote:


Gilles,

I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB 9
when I saw your post.

You must recognize the two immutable laws of computer chess:

1. ChessBase doesn't give a crap about you or me or anyone else. They're
on
top of the chess software world, with minimal competition. Their customer
service is nonexistent. Back when Mr. Lopez was doing support for them you
could get any problem solved. Now you're out of luck.


I wouldn't say that.
Chessbase not only replied to my email about my problem with Junior 9
not updating along with the newest GUI8 patch, they ACTUALLY SENT ME
THE UPDATED J9 ENGINE FILE in reply, to help me get it working.

(Although I had already by that time got it working by manually
extracting the patch file, thanks to another poster in the NG).

So your statement about their support being nonexistant is hyperbole.
Perhaps it needs improvement, but its definitely not nonexistant....



  #10   Report Post  
Old September 26th 05, 02:37 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
Default


On my machine, at various time controls, Fruit is already stronger than
Shredder. I would not characterize my test (over 130 games) as scientific
since I am a computer chess neophyte. However, I would guess that my sample
is at least statistically reliable under these conditions.

The developers of the GUI Arena and the top chess engines should get
together to create a commercial version of a combination product which
includes an essential database of, say, 2 million games plus a decent
opening book. They might solicit suggestions in a forum like this one for
specific functions that should be incorporated. I would purchase such a
product for $100 or less on principle.

adp

"Gilles Garrigues" wrote in message
...
Thanks Angelo for your long answer.

I could also point out many bugs in CB8 which were never corrected (make a
search with Google and you will find my posts) or the Endgame tablebases
for KRPP-KR (which CB sold for money in DVD Endgame Turbo2) which were
corrupted (1 file), a fact which was never mentioned on their website
(they ended up sending me a patch however). Any way good luck to Fritz9 !

PS : Maybe some day the creators of Zappa or Fruit will give CB a rude
awakening.

"Angelo DePalma" a écrit dans le message
de news: ...

Gilles,

I was just about to come on here and ask for help with printing from CB 9
when I saw your post.

You must recognize the two immutable laws of computer chess:

1. ChessBase doesn't give a crap about you or me or anyone else. They're
on top of the chess software world, with minimal competition. Their
customer service is nonexistent. Back when Mr. Lopez was doing support
for them you could get any problem solved. Now you're out of luck.

2. You will never get any sympathy in this newsgroup regarding CB
problems from anyone but me. CeeBee, in particular, will always side with
his fellow Visigoths. Generally the posters here will try to blame you
for the problem. In this instance you forgot a command so you don't
deserve an answer. That's the way it goes.

It's unfathomable that in the NINTH version of this pathetic program you
only have one printing option for diagrams: one size, with some CB drivel
at the top of the page. No annotation capability. Forget about printing
index cards for instructional purposes.

I imagine the way to do this is through the "Diagram List" function, but
the UNhelp file doesn't tell you how to add diagrams to the list, or how
to create a diagram list.

I should take consolation, however, in CB9's capability for inserting
videos within diagrams.

Angelo DePalma


"Gilles Garrigues" wrote in message
...
Chessbase has not fixed some major bugs in Fritz8.

Example : the notorious Ctl+D (= insert diagram) in game annotation
which does not work properly (= invisible in game notation unless you
print the game !) under Fritz8 (last update : january 2005 ?!); it was
only recently (june 2005) corrected in CB9.

Chessbase never replied to my mail on that subject and I assume that
today their reply would be "buy Fritz9" (assuming they corrected that
bug at last).

It is sad that they lack so much discipline in program maintenance...







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