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Old September 28th 05, 07:41 AM
SkyWalker
 
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Default 3D boards better for practice ?

Hello Guys,



I have a simple question regarding the 3D sets in CMX and Shredder 9. I don't
get many good opponents in my locality so all my practice is based on
Shredder 9/CMX.





I am a guy who has used the 2D sets happily so far, coz they were clean and
nice. But of late I had a brainwave that using a 3D set is close to the
"real thing" of playing a tourney game and so I checked out the 3D
facilities. I especially liked the new 3D sets available for download from
CMX (Staunton tournament II). But I still prefer to play the old 2d board.



So my question is: does anyone perceive an improved advantage in *OTB games*
with practicing in 3D boards as opposed to conventional 2D boards in
Shredder/CMX?



Thanks for your time,

Walker


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Old September 28th 05, 09:13 AM
David Richerby
 
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SkyWalker wrote:
I am a guy who has used the 2D sets happily so far, coz they were clean
and nice. But of late I had a brainwave that using a 3D set is close to
the "real thing" of playing a tourney game and so I checked out the 3D
facilities.


I've never liked 3D sets but, then, I have, until recently, had plenty of
opportunities for casual games with real sets. I personally think that
playing against computers (or online) on 2D boards is useful as it means
that I get better at visualizing things in 2D (which is useful for reading
books) and because I tend to analyze in a mixture of 2D and 3D while
playing OTB.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Technicolor Pants (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ well-tailored pair of trousers but
it's in realistic colour!
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Old September 28th 05, 10:34 AM
Claudio Grondi
 
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In my opinion 3D is nice to view, but harder to grasp than 2D.
If ease of use and speed of analysing a position is more important
than the esthetics, 2D is in my eyes the best way to go.
Chess is by its rules a 2D game, so 3D is in my eyes of no use.
I don't see any advantage in use of 3D sets for preparing for OTB
games and I will be really, really surprized if there will be someone
who seriously confirms, that it is helpful in practicing.

Claudio

"SkyWalker" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Hello Guys,



I have a simple question regarding the 3D sets in CMX and Shredder 9. I

don't
get many good opponents in my locality so all my practice is based on
Shredder 9/CMX.





I am a guy who has used the 2D sets happily so far, coz they were clean

and
nice. But of late I had a brainwave that using a 3D set is close to the
"real thing" of playing a tourney game and so I checked out the 3D
facilities. I especially liked the new 3D sets available for download from
CMX (Staunton tournament II). But I still prefer to play the old 2d

board.



So my question is: does anyone perceive an improved advantage in *OTB

games*
with practicing in 3D boards as opposed to conventional 2D boards in
Shredder/CMX?



Thanks for your time,

Walker




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Old September 28th 05, 06:22 PM
Guy Macon
 
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SkyWalker wrote:

I have a simple question regarding the 3D sets in CMX and Shredder 9. I don't
get many good opponents in my locality so all my practice is based on
Shredder 9/CMX.

I am a guy who has used the 2D sets happily so far, coz they were clean and
nice. But of late I had a brainwave that using a 3D set is close to the
"real thing" of playing a tourney game and so I checked out the 3D
facilities. I especially liked the new 3D sets available for download from
CMX (Staunton tournament II). But I still prefer to play the old 2d board.

So my question is: does anyone perceive an improved advantage in *OTB games*
with practicing in 3D boards as opposed to conventional 2D boards in
Shredder/CMX?


I have a better alternative. Set up a real tournament-standard
chessboard with a clock and a scorebook next to your computer.
Play as if you were playing a human.

If your chess program has an option where it only outputs standard
notation, use that option. Otherwise, move the window so that the
displayed board is offscreen and you cab only see the notation.
It may also be possible to make a custom 2D set that has all of the
pieces and squares the same color, making the board look blank.

--
Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/






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Old September 29th 05, 01:07 AM
Grackle
 
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"SkyWalker" wrote in message
...

So my question is: does anyone perceive an improved advantage in *OTB
games* with practicing in 3D boards as opposed to conventional 2D boards
in Shredder/CMX?


I disagree that the 2d boards are better against a computer -- would you
train a pilot with a simulator that only represents the world with 'icons' ?

I have a theory, so take it for what it's worth...seeing the board in 3d
actually requires a different form of pattern recognition for your brain.
If you see a bishop on a 3d board it moves towards and away from you, very
differently from the clean diagonals on a flat board. If you spend all your
time on a 2d board, you may come to a 3d board (real-life or simulated) and
maybe miss that one of your pieces is under attack.

So in conclusion, my theory implies that 2d boards cause brain damage.




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Old September 29th 05, 05:15 AM
SkyWalker
 
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Thanks for the input guys.

My main problem is that my calculation skills with lets say Renkos CD or CT
Art does not really happen OTB. I miss some easy 3-4 movers in OTB, although
i very rarely miss them when I practice with CT Art/Renko CD or play with
comp. This is the reason why i asked this question.

I have considered simulating OTB with computer player as suggested by Guy
Macon. It sounds fine - but slightly cumbersome as I play G/10s. Now i am
considering G/10 +5secs to do so.

thanks for your time,
Walker


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Old September 29th 05, 07:50 AM
Michael Vondung
 
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On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:07:45 -0400, Grackle wrote:

So in conclusion, my theory implies that 2d boards cause brain damage.


Not brain damage, just a slightly altered form of the skill you need when
playing in "real life". I think it's probably best to practice both styles,
which also keeps your brain on its toes.

I noticed the same with go lately, by the way, and now switch to 3D go
boards every so often.

M.
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Old September 29th 05, 09:22 AM
David Richerby
 
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Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
SkyWalker wrote:
So my question is: does anyone perceive an improved advantage in *OTB
games* with practicing in 3D boards as opposed to conventional 2D
boards in Shredder/CMX?


I have a better alternative. Set up a real tournament-standard
chessboard with a clock and a scorebook next to your computer.
Play as if you were playing a human.


That is a better idea, yes. I don't own a clock and am happy for the
computer to keep time (I never forget to press the clock anyway so
practicing that isn't necessary for me). Make sure the computer beeps
when it makes its move!


Dave.

--
David Richerby Generic Gigantic Cheese (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a brick of cheese but it's huge
and just like all the others!
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Old September 29th 05, 09:27 AM
David Richerby
 
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Grackle wrote:
I disagree that the 2d boards are better against a computer -- would you
train a pilot with a simulator that only represents the world with
'icons' ?


I think this comparison is irrelevant. To me, chess is an abstract game
and 2D diagrams, real boards and pictures of real boards are just physical
representations of that abstract game.


I have a theory, so take it for what it's worth...seeing the board in 3d
actually requires a different form of pattern recognition for your
brain. If you see a bishop on a 3d board it moves towards and away from
you, very differently from the clean diagonals on a flat board.


This is true but the problem I have with 3D boards is that I miss that
things are attacked because pieces hide behind each other. Of course,
this happens on a real board, too (though to a lesser extent -- all the 3D
graphics I've seen, which isn't many, I admit, have pieces that are very
large for the squares they're on) but I can solve that problem at a real
board by moving my head slightly.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Dangerous Tool (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ screwdriver but it could explode at
any minute!
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Old September 29th 05, 11:20 AM
SkyWalker
 
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This is true but the problem I have with 3D boards is that I miss that
things are attacked because pieces hide behind each other. Of course,
this happens on a real board, too (though to a lesser extent -- all the 3D
graphics I've seen, which isn't many, I admit, have pieces that are very
large for the squares they're on) but I can solve that problem at a real
board by moving my head slightly.


Dave,

I had faced the same issue with 3D boards. I had solved this by titling the
board slightly (isometric view) in 3D view.

Somehow i still have a nagging feeling there might be an OTB advantage with
practicing in 3D board, but there is nothing to substantiate it. Your
argument of chess is essentially a 2D game makes sense - but what if the
issue is not with calculation ability (for which 2d is ideal) , but with
board vision? - may that can be developed better with a 3D board..



regards,

Walker


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