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Old October 26th 05, 07:45 AM
Manikam
 
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Default Linux Chess

Hi,

I've been using linux (Fedora Core 3) for a while now. While eboard and
xboard seems to be sufficient for me to play games, something that I
find missing is chess software to analyse and annotate games.

I've heard of scid (3.6.1, TCL 8.4) and tried it, though it compiled
fine on my FC3, the program simply crashes with a Segmentation Fault
when I try to open any PGN files. So its not being much help.

I was wondering if there are anyother tools available in Linux for
this.


Apart from that another question:
Is there some tool where I can do an analysis such as this:
I'd like a game to be read in and assign different engines to black and
white.
For example lets say I played white and lost and would like to analyse
the game from white's standpoint. I would like to assign a strong
engine to white and a waker one to black (something that matches my
playing strength), so that when analysing each move of white, a
variation is created with the stronger engine playing moves for white
and the weaker engine playing moves for black.
(Of what use would that be? Well, the problem with having a strong
engine analyze it completely is that often, I don't get its reasoning
when it shows a line since it assumes an equal grandmaster strength
opponent, it would be good if a weaker engine matching my own playing
skill plays black, that way I feel the analysis would reaveal some
intresting things for players at low strengths allowing them to see how
a given position can be taken advantage of.)

Thanks,
Manikam

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Old October 26th 05, 08:28 AM
 
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Default Linux Chess

Scid is absolutely best tool for analysing and annotating in Linux, i
recommend to try it once again. Opening PGN files has always worked for
me, maybe something is wrong in your system. Im using scid at the
moment in FC4 and have used it in past Fedora and Red Hat distros,
never had any big problem. Nowadays we have very good chess engines in
Linux, like Shredder and Fruit which work fine in scid via Polyglot, so
i find that Scid + Fruit/Shredder is super good tool analysing chess.

I think scid is also answer for your another question. For example if
you have played with whites, then you can annotatate first your game
with Shredder for white moves only, then select some other "really weak
engine" and annotate again for black moves only. Scid have such
features.

If you are still looking for something else than Scid, then another
tool worth trying is Jose Chess Database, written in java. But so far i
have always preferred scid.

  #3   Report Post  
Old October 26th 05, 09:13 AM
Manikam
 
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Default Linux Chess

Hi,
I certainly would like to have scid, but I'm never able to get it to
read in a PGN file. Which version do you use with FC4?
Have you tried it on FC3?
What is you tcl version.
Its ./configure was not able to locate tcl.h in my system, so I had to
edit it.

Regarding the other question, thats actually not what I wanted,
I wanted to have the strong engine do the analysis playing its line
against the weak engine at that position.

Regards,
Manikam

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Old October 26th 05, 11:57 AM
 
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Default Linux Chess

At the moment i use system default tcl. Tcl-devel and tk-devel packages
must be installed, then configure should find it automagically. Btw, i
have compiled scid also against tcl 8.5 beta, its possible to get
antialiased fonts working in Linux tcl apps with this.

I have used Scid since Red Hat 7.0 to FC4, _only_ time i skipped
version change was FC3 But still cant believe that scid does not
work in FC3.

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Old October 26th 05, 04:28 PM
Ari Makela
 
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Default Linux Chess

On 2005-10-26, Manikam wrote:

I've heard of scid (3.6.1, TCL 8.4) and tried it, though it compiled
fine on my FC3, the program simply crashes with a Segmentation Fault
when I try to open any PGN files. So its not being much help.


Have you tried to run scid with strace? I've used scid for years and
I've never had any problems (well, I don't like the UI but that's
something completely different).

Also take a look at David J. Barnes' pgn-extract. It's a very useful
utility.

--
Ari Makela late autumn -
a single chair waiting
http://arska.org/hauva/ for someone yet to come
-- Arima Akito


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Old October 26th 05, 09:35 PM
Simon Waters
 
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Default Linux Chess

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:13:55 -0700, Manikam wrote:


What is you tcl version.
Its ./configure was not able to locate tcl.h in my system, so I had to
edit it.


2/10 for good thinking

Sensible GNU/Linux distros already have SCID packaged, so it is a one
command install (or point and click for those that prefer). I'm sure
Redhat must have RPM versions of SCID and dependencies all in their
repositories, if not switch to Debian, life is too short.

Simon (who spent half an hour writing an /etc/init.d file for Redhat FC4
today, when the same application is already packaged, and "just works"
with one command in Debian, but customers will choose their own distros
ho hum).
  #7   Report Post  
Old October 27th 05, 09:07 AM
Alexander Wagner
 
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Default Linux Chess

On 2005-10-26, Manikam wrote:

Hi!

I certainly would like to have scid, but I'm never able to get it to
read in a PGN file. Which version do you use with FC4?
Have you tried it on FC3?


First of all: the Fedora Core issue was the point I droped
RedHat (I ran for many years) and replaced it by Debain. Was
some work in the beginning, cause some stuff is handled
differently of course, but it's worth every minutes efford.
Could just say: get the real stuff and then

aptitude install scid

but surely you don't want to hear that.

What is you tcl version.
Its ./configure was not able to locate tcl.h in my system, so I had to
edit it.


I don't believe that it is a good idea to remove the
tcl-headers... For ma posting I found at

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedo.../msg05631.html

Did you install

tcl-devel-8.4.7-2.i386.rpm

Note the devel! Fedora AFAIK doesn't really like you to be a
software developer and drops the development packages upon
you explicitly request them. (People use to call this stuff
"desktop system".)

Regarding the other question, thats actually not what I wanted,
I wanted to have the strong engine do the analysis playing its line
against the weak engine at that position.


Use xboard with two engines. AFAIK scid's engine scidlet is
not really kasparov. Or use any other weak engine that comes
to your mind. As a strong engine use crafty, fruit or
shredder. For your engine tournament, this is offered by
xboard if you load two chess engines:

xboard -fcp firstengine -scp secondengine

probably oyu have to pass some directories along the
commandline. Now you can load a game and switch to
engine-engine mode. If I guess correctly that is what you
want.

Notice: The Shredder engine knows multiline analysis, that
is, it can analyse several lines in a given position at
once. How to set this up in scid can be found on

http://theorie.physik.uni-wuerzburg..../shredder.html

--

Kind regards,
Alexander Wagner
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Old October 27th 05, 02:44 PM
Kevin Croxen
 
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Default Linux Chess

On 2005-10-26, Manikam wrote:
Hi,
I certainly would like to have scid, but I'm never able to get it to
read in a PGN file. Which version do you use with FC4?
Have you tried it on FC3?
What is you tcl version.
Its ./configure was not able to locate tcl.h in my system, so I had to
edit it.

Regarding the other question, thats actually not what I wanted,
I wanted to have the strong engine do the analysis playing its line
against the weak engine at that position.

Regards,
Manikam


Crafty is probably the best engine available for operating on Linux.
Freeware available at the developer's ftp site:

ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/

Works very well in combination with Scid, which I still use even though it
seems no longer to be in development, Shane Hudson having apparently
disappeared off the face of the earth a year-and-a-half ago.

That being said, I find that Chessbase 7 runs very well on Slackware on
current versions of Wine --with better stability, in fact, than the
software ever ran on any version of Windows that I ever tried it on. I
also find that various versions of Fritz perform well as analytical
engines for Chessbase 7 on Wine and Slackware, Fritz 4, 5.32, and 7 being
the specific ones I've experimented with. However, I've found Fritz's own
graphical interface to be unacceptably slow on Wine to use the program as
a standalone. I've not tried the current version of Chessbase on Wine,
mostly because I'd rather hear about someone else's success before
plunking down a hundred bucks, but if you have a version of CB and Fritz
hanging around, you might want to give them a try with Wine.


  #9   Report Post  
Old October 28th 05, 06:28 AM
Manikam
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux Chess

Hi,
Thanks a lot for your replies so far.

I guess I should tell the whole story... in case you'd care to listen.
I tried mailing scid-users list but I'm not sure if it is active.

I first installed, Scid 3.6.1 and ran configure, it told me it couldn't
locate tcl.h and tk.h.

So I next downloaded and installed Activetcl 8.4.11. Still configure
couldn't find those
files. So I edited the MakeFile to make it look for it in the activetcl
include directory.
The compilation ran fine except for warning about uchar's being used
for array subscripts.

After the build, I fired up scid, it came up. Then I tried to open a
PGN. It crashes with
a segmentation fault.

The I discovered what could be the error, the FC3 distro automatically
had given TCL 8.4.7
while I downloaded ActiveTCL 8.4.11. Moreover I also realized that all
I needed was tcl-devel
and tk-devel.

So I uninstalled ActiveTCL and then did a yum for tcl-devel and
tk-devel and installed them.
(They are the right version 8.4.7). Next I did make distclean in scid
and also removed the
scid executable. I then ran ./configure again and this time it ran with
no problems.
Then I did a make install, fired up scid and opened a pgn and it
crashed again : (

So next I decided to start afresh. Did a make distclean, them removed
the scid executable.
tried running scid again (to make sure there where no stale scid
executables in my path by any chances).
It correctly complained. Then I removed the entire scid source code
directory et all.

Then I freshly unpacked the tar again, ran ./configure which went fine.
Redid a make isntall.
And then fired up scid and opened a pgn, it still gave me the same
problem: : ((

One other suggestion that was given to me was to run pgnscid or to try
with
someother pgn. Any pgn crashed. Moreover I also saw that when I fire up
scid
and simply made a few moves and tried to save, it poped a dialogue to
enter
the details of the game and after having done that it crashed with a
segmentation fault.

I got a suggestion to use pgnscid, when I tried that pgnscid crashed
with a
segmentation fault too. So I then ran it with gdb and this is the stack
trace I get:

(gdb) run
Starting program: /Downloads/scid-3.6.1/pgnscid wcch05.pgn
Converting file wcch05.pgn to Scid database wcch05:
Errors/warnings will be written to wcch05.err.

[0% 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100]
[
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x0806a6b4 in PgnParser::GetGameToken (this=0xfee96680,
buffer=0xfee96580 "1.b3", bufSize=256) at pgnparse.h:134
134 ch = *InCurrent;
(gdb) bt
#0 0x0806a6b4 in PgnParser::GetGameToken (this=0xfee96680,
buffer=0xfee96580 "1.b3", bufSize=256) at pgnparse.h:134
#1 0x0806c427 in PgnParser::ParseMoves (this=0xfee96680,
game=0x8e7c238, buffer=0xfee96580 "1.b3", bufSize=256)
at src/pgnparse.cpp:955
#2 0x0806cdd4 in StoredLine::Init () at src/stored.cpp:335
#3 0x0806ce79 in StoredLine::GetGame (code=1) at src/stored.cpp:351
#4 0x08061fde in Game::Encode (this=0x8e6df80, buf=0x8e6fd70,
ie=0x8e6dd98) at src/game.cpp:3365
#5 0x08049598 in main (argc=149347736, argv=0x8e6df80) at
src/pgnscid.cpp:222
(gdb)

Thank you for the suggestion using xboard with two engines to analyze a
game, I'll use that. Anyway to have those lines saved in the game as
variations?

Regards,
Manikam.


Alexander Wagner wrote:
On 2005-10-26, Manikam wrote:

Hi!

I certainly would like to have scid, but I'm never able to get it to
read in a PGN file. Which version do you use with FC4?
Have you tried it on FC3?


First of all: the Fedora Core issue was the point I droped
RedHat (I ran for many years) and replaced it by Debain. Was
some work in the beginning, cause some stuff is handled
differently of course, but it's worth every minutes efford.
Could just say: get the real stuff and then

aptitude install scid

but surely you don't want to hear that.

What is you tcl version.
Its ./configure was not able to locate tcl.h in my system, so I had to
edit it.


I don't believe that it is a good idea to remove the
tcl-headers... For ma posting I found at

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedo.../msg05631.html

Did you install

tcl-devel-8.4.7-2.i386.rpm

Note the devel! Fedora AFAIK doesn't really like you to be a
software developer and drops the development packages upon
you explicitly request them. (People use to call this stuff
"desktop system".)

Regarding the other question, thats actually not what I wanted,
I wanted to have the strong engine do the analysis playing its line
against the weak engine at that position.


Use xboard with two engines. AFAIK scid's engine scidlet is
not really kasparov. Or use any other weak engine that comes
to your mind. As a strong engine use crafty, fruit or
shredder. For your engine tournament, this is offered by
xboard if you load two chess engines:

xboard -fcp firstengine -scp secondengine

probably oyu have to pass some directories along the
commandline. Now you can load a game and switch to
engine-engine mode. If I guess correctly that is what you
want.

Notice: The Shredder engine knows multiline analysis, that
is, it can analyse several lines in a given position at
once. How to set this up in scid can be found on

http://theorie.physik.uni-wuerzburg..../shredder.html

--

Kind regards,
Alexander Wagner


  #10   Report Post  
Old October 29th 05, 07:36 PM
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
 
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Default Linux Chess

Kevin Croxen writes:

Crafty is probably the best engine available for operating on
Linux.


Only if you have an unusually big number of CPUs (at least 4), and
perhaps not even then. On a single-CPU machine, there is no doubt
that Fruit, Shredder and Ruffian are stronger, and it is very likely
that Sjeng, Scorpio, Jonny and Glaurung are at least on the same level
as Crafty.

--
Tord Romstad
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