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Old December 8th 03, 11:40 AM
Seymore Butts
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Now this is funny. Here is what Chessbase has to say about their new product
Deep Fritz 8.

" This is the program that fascinated the world in the recent Man vs Machine
duel in New York, where Deep Fritz 8 (playing under the version name X3D
Fritz) held the greatest chess player of all time, Garry Kasparov, to a 2:2
draw. "

" One of the most interesting features of Deep Fritz 8 is that in addition
to its speed the program has gained a remarkable degree of positional
understanding."

Now that last quote to me is funny given the 3rd game of the X3D match with
Gary Kasparov was a positional disgrace.

Here is the link to the full artical:

http://www.chessbase.com/shop/produc...89&user=&coin=

By the way, yes I did order the program anyway.

Here is the 3rd game I am talking about:


(3) Kasparov,G - Fritz X3D [D45]
Man vs Machine 120'/40 New York (3), 16.11.2003
[Utzinger,K]


1.Nf3 Live comments / Live Kommenta Utzinger,K 1...Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5
4.d4 c6 5.e3 a6 6.c5 Nbd7 7.b4 a5 8.b5 e5 9.Qa4 Qc7 10.Ba3 e4 11.Nd2 Be7
12.b6 Qd8 13.h3 0-0 14.Nb3 Bd6 A most surpri sing anti-human-like move.
Fritz wants to place its knight to b8. White can't play 15.Nxa5? on account
of Nxb6 winning Kasparov's queen / Ein ueberraschender Zug. Fritz will den
Laeufer nach b8 stellen. Weiss darf nicht 15.Sxa5 spielen wegen Damenverlust
nach Sxb6 15.Rb1 By protecting the b6-pawn Kasparov can now play Nxa5 /
Durch die Deckung des b6-Bauern kann nun Kasparov Sxa5 spielen 15...Be7
Fritz has changed its mind. This all does not look very logical / Fritz hat
seine Meinung geaendert, wasnichtgeradevonLogikzeugt 16.Nxa5 Should Gary
Kasparov not win this game he will most probably never again play such
computer events / Sollte Gary Kasparov diese Partie nicht gewinnen, wird er
vermutlich nie mehr an solchen Veranstaltungen gegen Computer teilnehmen
16...Nb8 Now X3D Fritz moves its knight backwards to its original square on
b8. This is the sort of thing chess programmers have nightmares about
(Greengard,M) I suppose that Fritz will soon play Qd7 in order to bring its
queen to white's kingside / Nun huepft X3D Fritz mit seinem Springer auf das
Ursprungsfeld b8 zurueck. Solche Dinge kommen in den Alptraeumen der
Programmierer vor (Greengard,M) Ich vermute, dass Fritz bald Dd7 spielen
wird, mit der Idee die Dame nach f5 in die Naehe des gegnerischen
Koenigsfluegels zu bringen 17.Bb4 Qd7 18.Rb2 Qe6 This game can last long as
white's pieces are rather unlucky placed on the queenside and if black finds
the maneouvre Nf6-e8, followed by Qg6 and f7-f5-f4 he gets surely some
counterchances / Diese Partie kann noch lange dauern. Die weissen Figuren
stehen am Damenfluegel schlecht. Und falls Schwarz das Manoever Sf6-e8 und
Dg6 sowie f7-f5-f4 findet, bekommt er sicher gewisse Gegenchancen 19.Qd1
Nfd7 I am almost sure that Fritz will eventually find f7-f5 / Nun bin ich
fast sicher, dass Fritz den Vorstoss f7-f5 finden wird 20.a3 Qh6 At first
glance this looks strange but in my opinion it's a good move taking the
squares h3 and e3 under fire. And do we not forget: white has a real bad
bishop on the queenside whereas almost all black's pieces are looking at
white's kingside. Gary Kasparov will have to be very cautious in defending
there / Auf den ersten Blick ein komischer Zug, doch finde ich ihn gut,
werden doch die Felder h3 und e3 unter Druck genommen. Und vergessen wir
nicht: Weiss hat am Damenfluegel einen miserablen Laeufer, waehrend die
schwarzen Figuren alle gegen den weissen Koenigsfluegel gerichtet sind. Gary
Kasparov wird sich gut verteidigen muessen 21.Nb3 Bh4 Threatening Qxe3 /
Droht bereits Dxe3 22.Qd2 Nf6 23.Kd1 Gary Kasparov is excaping with its king
to the other side of the board. Perhaps not a bad idea I had not thought
about before. I am however not sure if the king finds a real safe place on
the queenside. On the other hand: Kasparov should better know / Gary
Kasparov entschluepft an den anderen Fluegel. Vielleicht keine schlechte
Idee, die ich nicht beachtet habe. Allerdings bin ich nicht sicher, ob der
Koenig am Damenfluegel einen wirklich sicheren Platz findet. Doch sollte
Kasparov das besser wissen als meine Wenigkeit 23...Be6 24.Kc1 Rd8 25.Rc2
Nbd7 26.Kb2 [ Shredder 7.04: 26.Kb2 Qg6 27.g3 Bg5 28.Na5 Rdb8 29.h4 Bh6
30.Ne2 Qg4 31.Nf4 Rxa5 -0.11/13] 26...Nf8 27.a4 And after a4-a5 white's king
is completely safe on the queenside. But to win the game is still not so
easy for Kasparov. The most important plan will be to break through with its
pawns / Und nach a4-a5 steht der weisse Koenig am Damenfluegel total sicher.
Trotzdem wird es nicht einfach sein fuer Weiss, die Partie zu gewinnen. Der
wichtigste Plan duerfte darin bestehen, mit seinen Bauern durchzubrechen
27...Ng6 28.a5 Ne7 29.a6 This comes as a surprise to me as I thought this
would be too early / Ueberraschend fuer mich, hatte ich doch gedacht, dass
dies zu frueh sei 29...bxa6 What else? / Was sonst? 30.Na5 Rdb8 31.g3 Bg5
32.Bg2 Planning h3-h4 and winning a piece. Now Kasparov has a very fine
position / Plant h3-h4 mit Figurengewinn. Nun hat Kasparov eine sehr gute
Stellung 32...Qg6 33.Ka1 Kh8 34.Na2 Bd7 35.Bc3 Fritz8 still thinks it has
the advantage / Noch immer glaubt Fritz8, dass er Vorteil hat 35...Ne8
36.Nb4 And here Frit z X3D showed a positive evaluation for white / Und hier
zeigte Fritz X3D ein positives Score fuer Weiss an 36...Kg8 37.Rb1 Bc8
38.Ra2 Bh6 Black is absolutely helpless / Schwarz ist absolut hilflos 39.Bf1
For a long time this game has just been one player playing and the other
player waiting. Fritz X3D has just been a spectator (GM Lautier,J) 39...Qe6
40.Qd1 Nf6 41.Qa4 The pressure on black's camp continues / Der Druck gegen
die schwarze Stellung steigt 41...Bb7 There was nothing else to protect c6 /
Es gab nichts Anderes, um c6 zu decken 42.Nxb7 Rxb7 43.Nxa6 Kasparov is
again a pawn up with still a strong position / Kasparov hat wieder ein
Bauernplus bei noch immer starker Stellung 43...Qd7 44.Qc2 The experts
expected rather 44.Qd1 / Die Experten hatten eher 44.Dd1 erwartet 44...Kh8
45.Rb3 1-0


  #2   Report Post  
Old December 8th 03, 01:03 PM
HD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Yes, well, I believe it to be funny too, but I have a suspicion about
some book-error or a miscalculation on the behalf of the CB-team
(something didn't go work!).

Another generally funny thing is, that each time a new version of
Fritz/Junior arrives, it's identical to the one that played super-GM X
in the latest match! It doesn't matter if it's a single-processor
version or a multi-P version; it's identical to it!!
It that respect we have Fritz 8, which played against Kramnik in
Bahrain, so the engine Fritz in Bahrain = Fritz 8, and Fritz 8 = Deep
Fritz 8 - but Deep Fritz 8 is a multi-P version - and "alot stronger"
than the single-P version even on a single-P machine(! - remember that
from F7 too), and so on! DF8 is also identical to X3D Fritz - or a least
they are all the same...
And we have somewhat the same (identical) tail about the dear "Junior's"
too.
Well, it's not all the same, and it's not identical, but it equals!

Confused!? Not after next episode of "World Class Player vs Supreme Engine"


Seymore Butts skrev:
Now this is funny. Here is what Chessbase has to say about their new product
Deep Fritz 8.

" This is the program that fascinated the world in the recent Man vs Machine
duel in New York, where Deep Fritz 8 (playing under the version name X3D
Fritz) held the greatest chess player of all time, Garry Kasparov, to a 2:2
draw. "

" One of the most interesting features of Deep Fritz 8 is that in addition
to its speed the program has gained a remarkable degree of positional
understanding."

Now that last quote to me is funny given the 3rd game of the X3D match with
Gary Kasparov was a positional disgrace.

Here is the link to the full artical:

http://www.chessbase.com/shop/produc...89&user=&coin=

By the way, yes I did order the program anyway.

Here is the 3rd game I am talking about:


(3) Kasparov,G - Fritz X3D [D45]
Man vs Machine 120'/40 New York (3), 16.11.2003
[Utzinger,K]


1.Nf3 Live comments / Live Kommenta Utzinger,K 1...Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5
4.d4 c6 5.e3 a6 6.c5 Nbd7 7.b4 a5 8.b5 e5 9.Qa4 Qc7 10.Ba3 e4 11.Nd2 Be7
12.b6 Qd8 13.h3 0-0 14.Nb3 Bd6 A most surpri sing anti-human-like move.
Fritz wants to place its knight to b8. White can't play 15.Nxa5? on account
of Nxb6 winning Kasparov's queen / Ein ueberraschender Zug. Fritz will den
Laeufer nach b8 stellen. Weiss darf nicht 15.Sxa5 spielen wegen Damenverlust
nach Sxb6 15.Rb1 By protecting the b6-pawn Kasparov can now play Nxa5 /
Durch die Deckung des b6-Bauern kann nun Kasparov Sxa5 spielen 15...Be7
Fritz has changed its mind. This all does not look very logical / Fritz hat
seine Meinung geaendert, wasnichtgeradevonLogikzeugt 16.Nxa5 Should Gary
Kasparov not win this game he will most probably never again play such
computer events / Sollte Gary Kasparov diese Partie nicht gewinnen, wird er
vermutlich nie mehr an solchen Veranstaltungen gegen Computer teilnehmen
16...Nb8 Now X3D Fritz moves its knight backwards to its original square on
b8. This is the sort of thing chess programmers have nightmares about
(Greengard,M) I suppose that Fritz will soon play Qd7 in order to bring its
queen to white's kingside / Nun huepft X3D Fritz mit seinem Springer auf das
Ursprungsfeld b8 zurueck. Solche Dinge kommen in den Alptraeumen der
Programmierer vor (Greengard,M) Ich vermute, dass Fritz bald Dd7 spielen
wird, mit der Idee die Dame nach f5 in die Naehe des gegnerischen
Koenigsfluegels zu bringen 17.Bb4 Qd7 18.Rb2 Qe6 This game can last long as
white's pieces are rather unlucky placed on the queenside and if black finds
the maneouvre Nf6-e8, followed by Qg6 and f7-f5-f4 he gets surely some
counterchances / Diese Partie kann noch lange dauern. Die weissen Figuren
stehen am Damenfluegel schlecht. Und falls Schwarz das Manoever Sf6-e8 und
Dg6 sowie f7-f5-f4 findet, bekommt er sicher gewisse Gegenchancen 19.Qd1
Nfd7 I am almost sure that Fritz will eventually find f7-f5 / Nun bin ich
fast sicher, dass Fritz den Vorstoss f7-f5 finden wird 20.a3 Qh6 At first
glance this looks strange but in my opinion it's a good move taking the
squares h3 and e3 under fire. And do we not forget: white has a real bad
bishop on the queenside whereas almost all black's pieces are looking at
white's kingside. Gary Kasparov will have to be very cautious in defending
there / Auf den ersten Blick ein komischer Zug, doch finde ich ihn gut,
werden doch die Felder h3 und e3 unter Druck genommen. Und vergessen wir
nicht: Weiss hat am Damenfluegel einen miserablen Laeufer, waehrend die
schwarzen Figuren alle gegen den weissen Koenigsfluegel gerichtet sind. Gary
Kasparov wird sich gut verteidigen muessen 21.Nb3 Bh4 Threatening Qxe3 /
Droht bereits Dxe3 22.Qd2 Nf6 23.Kd1 Gary Kasparov is excaping with its king
to the other side of the board. Perhaps not a bad idea I had not thought
about before. I am however not sure if the king finds a real safe place on
the queenside. On the other hand: Kasparov should better know / Gary
Kasparov entschluepft an den anderen Fluegel. Vielleicht keine schlechte
Idee, die ich nicht beachtet habe. Allerdings bin ich nicht sicher, ob der
Koenig am Damenfluegel einen wirklich sicheren Platz findet. Doch sollte
Kasparov das besser wissen als meine Wenigkeit 23...Be6 24.Kc1 Rd8 25.Rc2
Nbd7 26.Kb2 [ Shredder 7.04: 26.Kb2 Qg6 27.g3 Bg5 28.Na5 Rdb8 29.h4 Bh6
30.Ne2 Qg4 31.Nf4 Rxa5 -0.11/13] 26...Nf8 27.a4 And after a4-a5 white's king
is completely safe on the queenside. But to win the game is still not so
easy for Kasparov. The most important plan will be to break through with its
pawns / Und nach a4-a5 steht der weisse Koenig am Damenfluegel total sicher.
Trotzdem wird es nicht einfach sein fuer Weiss, die Partie zu gewinnen. Der
wichtigste Plan duerfte darin bestehen, mit seinen Bauern durchzubrechen
27...Ng6 28.a5 Ne7 29.a6 This comes as a surprise to me as I thought this
would be too early / Ueberraschend fuer mich, hatte ich doch gedacht, dass
dies zu frueh sei 29...bxa6 What else? / Was sonst? 30.Na5 Rdb8 31.g3 Bg5
32.Bg2 Planning h3-h4 and winning a piece. Now Kasparov has a very fine
position / Plant h3-h4 mit Figurengewinn. Nun hat Kasparov eine sehr gute
Stellung 32...Qg6 33.Ka1 Kh8 34.Na2 Bd7 35.Bc3 Fritz8 still thinks it has
the advantage / Noch immer glaubt Fritz8, dass er Vorteil hat 35...Ne8
36.Nb4 And here Frit z X3D showed a positive evaluation for white / Und hier
zeigte Fritz X3D ein positives Score fuer Weiss an 36...Kg8 37.Rb1 Bc8
38.Ra2 Bh6 Black is absolutely helpless / Schwarz ist absolut hilflos 39.Bf1
For a long time this game has just been one player playing and the other
player waiting. Fritz X3D has just been a spectator (GM Lautier,J) 39...Qe6
40.Qd1 Nf6 41.Qa4 The pressure on black's camp continues / Der Druck gegen
die schwarze Stellung steigt 41...Bb7 There was nothing else to protect c6 /
Es gab nichts Anderes, um c6 zu decken 42.Nxb7 Rxb7 43.Nxa6 Kasparov is
again a pawn up with still a strong position / Kasparov hat wieder ein
Bauernplus bei noch immer starker Stellung 43...Qd7 44.Qc2 The experts
expected rather 44.Qd1 / Die Experten hatten eher 44.Dd1 erwartet 44...Kh8
45.Rb3 1-0



  #3   Report Post  
Old December 8th 03, 06:36 PM
Thomas T. Veldhouse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Seymore Butts wrote:
Now this is funny. Here is what Chessbase has to say about their new
product Deep Fritz 8.

" This is the program that fascinated the world in the recent Man vs
Machine duel in New York, where Deep Fritz 8 (playing under the
version name X3D Fritz) held the greatest chess player of all time,
Garry Kasparov, to a 2:2 draw. "

" One of the most interesting features of Deep Fritz 8 is that in
addition to its speed the program has gained a remarkable degree of
positional understanding."


It is probably much more positional of a player than it was in previous
versions. That doesn't mean it can stand up to Kasparov. Unless you can
beat the old one positionally and you would like to see if you can beat the
new one, I see no reason to buy the new one ... unless you will gain
something from the increased ability to analyze (or for playchess.com
access).

Tom Veldhouse


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Old December 8th 03, 07:26 PM
NetSock
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Well...the hardware has a lot to with it too.

I don't have the luck to run my latest Chessbase engine on a dual 4 gig
processor, with a 1 gig front end, and 5 gig of ram...


"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
...
Seymore Butts wrote:
Now this is funny. Here is what Chessbase has to say about their new
product Deep Fritz 8.

" This is the program that fascinated the world in the recent Man vs
Machine duel in New York, where Deep Fritz 8 (playing under the
version name X3D Fritz) held the greatest chess player of all time,
Garry Kasparov, to a 2:2 draw. "

" One of the most interesting features of Deep Fritz 8 is that in
addition to its speed the program has gained a remarkable degree of
positional understanding."


It is probably much more positional of a player than it was in previous
versions. That doesn't mean it can stand up to Kasparov. Unless you can
beat the old one positionally and you would like to see if you can beat

the
new one, I see no reason to buy the new one ... unless you will gain
something from the increased ability to analyze (or for playchess.com
access).

Tom Veldhouse




  #5   Report Post  
Old December 9th 03, 12:11 AM
Jeff Stephens
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Seymore Butts wrote:

Now this is funny. Here is what Chessbase has to say about their new
product Deep Fritz 8.

" This is the program that fascinated the world in the recent Man vs
Machine duel in New York, where Deep Fritz 8 (playing under the version
name X3D Fritz) held the greatest chess player of all time, Garry
Kasparov, to a 2:2 draw. "

" One of the most interesting features of Deep Fritz 8 is that in addition
to its speed the program has gained a remarkable degree of positional
understanding."

Now that last quote to me is funny given the 3rd game of the X3D match
with Gary Kasparov was a positional disgrace.


It certainly was disgraceful. The back-and-forth kings bishop move was
inexplicable, and wouldn't have been made by any human player above rank
beginner. Investing in Deep Fritz 8 w/o a multiprocessor system is IMHO a
complete waste of money, and investing in DF8 even w/multiprocessor is
probably a complete waste of money. If you own a program that already
beats you 100% of the time, and provides decent analysis, why buy the
latest and greatest?

Regards,
JeffS

Here is the link to the full artical:

http://www.chessbase.com/shop/produc...89&user=&coin=

By the way, yes I did order the program anyway.

Here is the 3rd game I am talking about:


(3) Kasparov,G - Fritz X3D [D45]
Man vs Machine 120'/40 New York (3), 16.11.2003
[Utzinger,K]


1.Nf3 Live comments / Live Kommenta Utzinger,K 1...Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5
4.d4 c6 5.e3 a6 6.c5 Nbd7 7.b4 a5 8.b5 e5 9.Qa4 Qc7 10.Ba3 e4 11.Nd2 Be7
12.b6 Qd8 13.h3 0-0 14.Nb3 Bd6 A most surpri sing anti-human-like move.
Fritz wants to place its knight to b8. White can't play 15.Nxa5? on
account of Nxb6 winning Kasparov's queen / Ein ueberraschender Zug. Fritz
will den Laeufer nach b8 stellen. Weiss darf nicht 15.Sxa5 spielen wegen
Damenverlust nach Sxb6 15.Rb1 By protecting the b6-pawn Kasparov can now
play Nxa5 / Durch die Deckung des b6-Bauern kann nun Kasparov Sxa5 spielen
15...Be7 Fritz has changed its mind. This all does not look very logical /
Fritz hat seine Meinung geaendert, wasnichtgeradevonLogikzeugt 16.Nxa5
Should Gary Kasparov not win this game he will most probably never again
play such computer events / Sollte Gary Kasparov diese Partie nicht
gewinnen, wird er vermutlich nie mehr an solchen Veranstaltungen gegen
Computer teilnehmen 16...Nb8 Now X3D Fritz moves its knight backwards to
its original square on b8. This is the sort of thing chess programmers
have nightmares about (Greengard,M) I suppose that Fritz will soon play
Qd7 in order to bring its queen to white's kingside / Nun huepft X3D Fritz
mit seinem Springer auf das Ursprungsfeld b8 zurueck. Solche Dinge kommen
in den Alptraeumen der Programmierer vor (Greengard,M) Ich vermute, dass
Fritz bald Dd7 spielen wird, mit der Idee die Dame nach f5 in die Naehe
des gegnerischen Koenigsfluegels zu bringen 17.Bb4 Qd7 18.Rb2 Qe6 This
game can last long as white's pieces are rather unlucky placed on the
queenside and if black finds the maneouvre Nf6-e8, followed by Qg6 and
f7-f5-f4 he gets surely some counterchances / Diese Partie kann noch lange
dauern. Die weissen Figuren stehen am Damenfluegel schlecht. Und falls
Schwarz das Manoever Sf6-e8 und Dg6 sowie f7-f5-f4 findet, bekommt er
sicher gewisse Gegenchancen 19.Qd1 Nfd7 I am almost sure that Fritz will
eventually find f7-f5 / Nun bin ich fast sicher, dass Fritz den Vorstoss
f7-f5 finden wird 20.a3 Qh6 At first glance this looks strange but in my
opinion it's a good move taking the squares h3 and e3 under fire. And do
we not forget: white has a real bad bishop on the queenside whereas almost
all black's pieces are looking at white's kingside. Gary Kasparov will
have to be very cautious in defending there / Auf den ersten Blick ein
komischer Zug, doch finde ich ihn gut, werden doch die Felder h3 und e3
unter Druck genommen. Und vergessen wir nicht: Weiss hat am Damenfluegel
einen miserablen Laeufer, waehrend die schwarzen Figuren alle gegen den
weissen Koenigsfluegel gerichtet sind. Gary Kasparov wird sich gut
verteidigen muessen 21.Nb3 Bh4 Threatening Qxe3 / Droht bereits Dxe3
22.Qd2 Nf6 23.Kd1 Gary Kasparov is excaping with its king to the other
side of the board. Perhaps not a bad idea I had not thought about before.
I am however not sure if the king finds a real safe place on the
queenside. On the other hand: Kasparov should better know / Gary Kasparov
entschluepft an den anderen Fluegel. Vielleicht keine schlechte Idee, die
ich nicht beachtet habe. Allerdings bin ich nicht sicher, ob der Koenig am
Damenfluegel einen wirklich sicheren Platz findet. Doch sollte Kasparov
das besser wissen als meine Wenigkeit 23...Be6 24.Kc1 Rd8 25.Rc2 Nbd7
26.Kb2 [ Shredder 7.04: 26.Kb2 Qg6 27.g3 Bg5 28.Na5 Rdb8 29.h4 Bh6 30.Ne2
Qg4 31.Nf4 Rxa5 -0.11/13] 26...Nf8 27.a4 And after a4-a5 white's king is
completely safe on the queenside. But to win the game is still not so easy
for Kasparov. The most important plan will be to break through with its
pawns / Und nach a4-a5 steht der weisse Koenig am Damenfluegel total
sicher. Trotzdem wird es nicht einfach sein fuer Weiss, die Partie zu
gewinnen. Der wichtigste Plan duerfte darin bestehen, mit seinen Bauern
durchzubrechen 27...Ng6 28.a5 Ne7 29.a6 This comes as a surprise to me as
I thought this would be too early / Ueberraschend fuer mich, hatte ich
doch gedacht, dass dies zu frueh sei 29...bxa6 What else? / Was sonst?
30.Na5 Rdb8 31.g3 Bg5 32.Bg2 Planning h3-h4 and winning a piece. Now
Kasparov has a very fine position / Plant h3-h4 mit Figurengewinn. Nun hat
Kasparov eine sehr gute Stellung 32...Qg6 33.Ka1 Kh8 34.Na2 Bd7 35.Bc3
Fritz8 still thinks it has the advantage / Noch immer glaubt Fritz8, dass
er Vorteil hat 35...Ne8 36.Nb4 And here Frit z X3D showed a positive
evaluation for white / Und hier zeigte Fritz X3D ein positives Score fuer
Weiss an 36...Kg8 37.Rb1 Bc8 38.Ra2 Bh6 Black is absolutely helpless /
Schwarz ist absolut hilflos 39.Bf1 For a long time this game has just been
one player playing and the other player waiting. Fritz X3D has just been a
spectator (GM Lautier,J) 39...Qe6 40.Qd1 Nf6 41.Qa4 The pressure on
black's camp continues / Der Druck gegen die schwarze Stellung steigt
41...Bb7 There was nothing else to protect c6 / Es gab nichts Anderes, um
c6 zu decken 42.Nxb7 Rxb7 43.Nxa6 Kasparov is again a pawn up with still a
strong position / Kasparov hat wieder ein Bauernplus bei noch immer
starker Stellung 43...Qd7 44.Qc2 The experts expected rather 44.Qd1 / Die
Experten hatten eher 44.Dd1 erwartet 44...Kh8 45.Rb3 1-0




  #6   Report Post  
Old December 9th 03, 07:56 AM
Chuck in Minot
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Hey Rebel 12 Dos plays at 2600+ on my machine, and I'm
about 1950 on my best day, and its free, and its beats me
and beats my chess computer morning noon and night.

Why pay for something when something just as strong is
available for free?

Rebel 12 for DOS, is one mean Mustafa!!!



It certainly was disgraceful. The back-and-forth kings bishop move was
inexplicable, and wouldn't have been made by any human player above rank
beginner. Investing in Deep Fritz 8 w/o a multiprocessor system is IMHO a
complete waste of money, and investing in DF8 even w/multiprocessor is
probably a complete waste of money. If you own a program that already
beats you 100% of the time, and provides decent analysis, why buy the
latest and greatest?

Regards,
JeffS

Here is the link to the full artical:

http://www.chessbase.com/shop/produc...89&user=&coin=

By the way, yes I did order the program anyway.

Here is the 3rd game I am talking about:


(3) Kasparov,G - Fritz X3D [D45]
Man vs Machine 120'/40 New York (3), 16.11.2003
[Utzinger,K]


1.Nf3 Live comments / Live Kommenta Utzinger,K 1...Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5
4.d4 c6 5.e3 a6 6.c5 Nbd7 7.b4 a5 8.b5 e5 9.Qa4 Qc7 10.Ba3 e4 11.Nd2 Be7
12.b6 Qd8 13.h3 0-0 14.Nb3 Bd6 A most surpri sing anti-human-like move.
Fritz wants to place its knight to b8. White can't play 15.Nxa5? on
account of Nxb6 winning Kasparov's queen / Ein ueberraschender Zug. Fritz
will den Laeufer nach b8 stellen. Weiss darf nicht 15.Sxa5 spielen wegen
Damenverlust nach Sxb6 15.Rb1 By protecting the b6-pawn Kasparov can now
play Nxa5 / Durch die Deckung des b6-Bauern kann nun Kasparov Sxa5 spielen
15...Be7 Fritz has changed its mind. This all does not look very logical /
Fritz hat seine Meinung geaendert, wasnichtgeradevonLogikzeugt 16.Nxa5
Should Gary Kasparov not win this game he will most probably never again
play such computer events / Sollte Gary Kasparov diese Partie nicht
gewinnen, wird er vermutlich nie mehr an solchen Veranstaltungen gegen
Computer teilnehmen 16...Nb8 Now X3D Fritz moves its knight backwards to
its original square on b8. This is the sort of thing chess programmers
have nightmares about (Greengard,M) I suppose that Fritz will soon play
Qd7 in order to bring its queen to white's kingside / Nun huepft X3D Fritz
mit seinem Springer auf das Ursprungsfeld b8 zurueck. Solche Dinge kommen
in den Alptraeumen der Programmierer vor (Greengard,M) Ich vermute, dass
Fritz bald Dd7 spielen wird, mit der Idee die Dame nach f5 in die Naehe
des gegnerischen Koenigsfluegels zu bringen 17.Bb4 Qd7 18.Rb2 Qe6 This
game can last long as white's pieces are rather unlucky placed on the
queenside and if black finds the maneouvre Nf6-e8, followed by Qg6 and
f7-f5-f4 he gets surely some counterchances / Diese Partie kann noch lange
dauern. Die weissen Figuren stehen am Damenfluegel schlecht. Und falls
Schwarz das Manoever Sf6-e8 und Dg6 sowie f7-f5-f4 findet, bekommt er
sicher gewisse Gegenchancen 19.Qd1 Nfd7 I am almost sure that Fritz will
eventually find f7-f5 / Nun bin ich fast sicher, dass Fritz den Vorstoss
f7-f5 finden wird 20.a3 Qh6 At first glance this looks strange but in my
opinion it's a good move taking the squares h3 and e3 under fire. And do
we not forget: white has a real bad bishop on the queenside whereas almost
all black's pieces are looking at white's kingside. Gary Kasparov will
have to be very cautious in defending there / Auf den ersten Blick ein
komischer Zug, doch finde ich ihn gut, werden doch die Felder h3 und e3
unter Druck genommen. Und vergessen wir nicht: Weiss hat am Damenfluegel
einen miserablen Laeufer, waehrend die schwarzen Figuren alle gegen den
weissen Koenigsfluegel gerichtet sind. Gary Kasparov wird sich gut
verteidigen muessen 21.Nb3 Bh4 Threatening Qxe3 / Droht bereits Dxe3
22.Qd2 Nf6 23.Kd1 Gary Kasparov is excaping with its king to the other
side of the board. Perhaps not a bad idea I had not thought about before.
I am however not sure if the king finds a real safe place on the
queenside. On the other hand: Kasparov should better know / Gary Kasparov
entschluepft an den anderen Fluegel. Vielleicht keine schlechte Idee, die
ich nicht beachtet habe. Allerdings bin ich nicht sicher, ob der Koenig am
Damenfluegel einen wirklich sicheren Platz findet. Doch sollte Kasparov
das besser wissen als meine Wenigkeit 23...Be6 24.Kc1 Rd8 25.Rc2 Nbd7
26.Kb2 [ Shredder 7.04: 26.Kb2 Qg6 27.g3 Bg5 28.Na5 Rdb8 29.h4 Bh6 30.Ne2
Qg4 31.Nf4 Rxa5 -0.11/13] 26...Nf8 27.a4 And after a4-a5 white's king is
completely safe on the queenside. But to win the game is still not so easy
for Kasparov. The most important plan will be to break through with its
pawns / Und nach a4-a5 steht der weisse Koenig am Damenfluegel total
sicher. Trotzdem wird es nicht einfach sein fuer Weiss, die Partie zu
gewinnen. Der wichtigste Plan duerfte darin bestehen, mit seinen Bauern
durchzubrechen 27...Ng6 28.a5 Ne7 29.a6 This comes as a surprise to me as
I thought this would be too early / Ueberraschend fuer mich, hatte ich
doch gedacht, dass dies zu frueh sei 29...bxa6 What else? / Was sonst?
30.Na5 Rdb8 31.g3 Bg5 32.Bg2 Planning h3-h4 and winning a piece. Now
Kasparov has a very fine position / Plant h3-h4 mit Figurengewinn. Nun hat
Kasparov eine sehr gute Stellung 32...Qg6 33.Ka1 Kh8 34.Na2 Bd7 35.Bc3
Fritz8 still thinks it has the advantage / Noch immer glaubt Fritz8, dass
er Vorteil hat 35...Ne8 36.Nb4 And here Frit z X3D showed a positive
evaluation for white / Und hier zeigte Fritz X3D ein positives Score fuer
Weiss an 36...Kg8 37.Rb1 Bc8 38.Ra2 Bh6 Black is absolutely helpless /
Schwarz ist absolut hilflos 39.Bf1 For a long time this game has just been
one player playing and the other player waiting. Fritz X3D has just been a
spectator (GM Lautier,J) 39...Qe6 40.Qd1 Nf6 41.Qa4 The pressure on
black's camp continues / Der Druck gegen die schwarze Stellung steigt
41...Bb7 There was nothing else to protect c6 / Es gab nichts Anderes, um
c6 zu decken 42.Nxb7 Rxb7 43.Nxa6 Kasparov is again a pawn up with still a
strong position / Kasparov hat wieder ein Bauernplus bei noch immer
starker Stellung 43...Qd7 44.Qc2 The experts expected rather 44.Qd1 / Die
Experten hatten eher 44.Dd1 erwartet 44...Kh8 45.Rb3 1-0



  #7   Report Post  
Old December 9th 03, 09:48 AM
David Richerby
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Jeff Stephens wrote:
It certainly was disgraceful. The back-and-forth kings bishop move was
inexplicable, and wouldn't have been made by any human player above rank
beginner.


I assume you mean 14... Bd6, 15... Be7 ? I very much doubt that a rank
beginner would notice that the obvious-looking 15.cxd6 leads to 15... Nxb6
and the loss of a white's queen. It takes a special kind of demented
player to see that Bd6 doesn't just throw away a piece but not to notice
that, from d6, the bishop can only move to b8, where it will be trapped
for the rest of the game, or back to e7.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Poetic Pickled Bulb (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a light bulb but it's preserved in
vinegar and in verse!
  #8   Report Post  
Old December 9th 03, 01:34 PM
HD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

It certainly was disgraceful. The back-and-forth kings bishop move was
inexplicable, and wouldn't have been made by any human player above rank
beginner. Investing in Deep Fritz 8 w/o a multiprocessor system is IMHO a
complete waste of money, and investing in DF8 even w/multiprocessor is
probably a complete waste of money. If you own a program that already
beats you 100% of the time, and provides decent analysis, why buy the
latest and greatest?

Because to alot of people in here, its not about beating the beasts or
training against them, nor is it about analysing, or at least those are
no primary goals: It's about "robo-wars." You need engines to play with
in your matches and tournaments, and on the net against other engines.
so its not expensive to buy each new program, since you've already payed
some heavy bucks for all the hardware.
With most I know, thats the reason. And I'm a bit alike!

HD

Regards,
JeffS


  #9   Report Post  
Old December 9th 03, 10:46 PM
Henri H. Arsenault
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 01:56:56 -0600, "Chuck in Minot"
wrote:


It certainly was disgraceful. The back-and-forth kings bishop move was
inexplicable, and wouldn't have been made by any human player above rank
beginner. Investing in Deep Fritz 8 w/o a multiprocessor system is IMHO a
complete waste of money, and investing in DF8 even w/multiprocessor is
probably a complete waste of money. If you own a program that already
beats you 100% of the time, and provides decent analysis, why buy the
latest and greatest?

Well, for one thing you can go to the engines tournaments on Playchess
and beat the crap out of other players with weaker programs and
computers. Not to mention hopefully better analysis of games.

Henri
  #10   Report Post  
Old December 10th 03, 01:19 PM
David Richerby
 
Posts: n/a
Default Deep Fritz 8 (Aka X3D Fritz)

Henri H. Arsenault wrote:
"Chuck in Minot" wrote:
If you own a program that already beats you 100% of the time, and
provides decent analysis, why buy the latest and greatest?


Well, for one thing you can go to the engines tournaments on Playchess
and beat the crap out of other players with weaker programs and
computers.


I've never really understood the point of that. It's like hiring a
professional boxer to win playground fights for you. Big deal.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Technicolor Artificial Widget (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a thingy that's made of
plastic but it's in realistic colour!
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