Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old November 29th 06, 02:25 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 589
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.


I recently purchased a Rybka 2.2 plus Chess Openings download from Convekta.

BIG MISTAKE.

The interface is complex beyond comprehension. Assorted boxes and windows
appear with no rhyme or reason and I never know if closing one will "wreck"
the setup. Supposedly there is an openings training mode but I have no idea
how to access or otherwise take advantage of it. Even tasks as simple as
entering one of my OTB games and saving it to a database is a mystery.

Convekta provided a link to the user manual, but the file is written in
Microsoft Word and is nearly 10 Mb. Only the first two pages (out of 56) of
diagrams and graphics are visible. Even though I have 1 GB of RAM on my
machine I get an "insufficient memory to display or print graphics" message.
I tried converting the file to PDF and various other portable formats but
the graphics still did not come through.

Even if the manual were of reasonable size, for $53 I should NOT have to
print out a freaking 56-page book in 4-point type on my inkjet. You'd think
customers would deserve a printed manual no matter how they purchased it, or
at least have the option of obtaining one for a reasonable fee.

Most annoyingly, the fonts do not load (or display) properly. Instead of
"Nxb3" or a figurine representation I get boxes, Pound Sterling signs, Yen
signs, etc. Nothing I do in the "options/fonts" menu affect this in any way.

"Customer service" -- central/eastern European style -- available by email,
takes a full day for one turn-around, even though I am up and at my computer
for 12 hours a day. (By contrast, yesterday I was having problems with a
spam blocker and had three exchanges with the product's US-based customer
service department). When Convekta does respond they completely
mis-understand my questions. My luck: to buy a product from the only company
in Europe that does not employ people who speak English better than I do, or
at all.

Consequently the responses generally have nothing to do with my questions. I
am still waiting for another link to the manual for the product I purchased
because "Sasha" still doesn't grasp which product I own (he originally
thought I was running the Rybka 2.2 UCI under Fritz and chided me for asking
him to support a product that he didn't sell!).

His solution for my fonts problem was to re-send me the font file, which I
had already located in the program folder, three days earlier. By the way
it's a RAR file -- what am I supposed to do with that file, Sasha? Move it
to what folder? Install it how? Invoke it through which commands in the
interface? Should I copy it to a floppy disk and pray over it in Russian???
It's already in the correct folder. Obviously the problem is in some setup
step. Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out --
naaaaaaa!!

I get the feeling looking at the product, working out whatever I can from
the on-screen menus, and reading between the broken graphic links in the
manual, that this is a very powerful, versatile product that could easily
replace ChessBase as my primary database, analysis, and generally speaking
chess training suite. And of course it uses Rybka, which is supposed to be
stronger than CB engines. Unfortunately in software, an ounce of
accessibility (or usability) is always worth a pound of features.

Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings is a very bad presentation by Convekta, showing a
non-existent appreciation for common problems users outside of Ukraine are
likely to experience with it. This group may know me as a CB-basher but I'll
tell you something, Convekta's customer support makes Hans und Franz from
ChessBase GmbH seem like fawning sycophants by comparison.

Perhaps the CD purchase would have worked out better, but it's too late for
that. It looks like an invasion of Convektastan SSR is our only option now.

Seriously, anyone considering purchasing a Convekta product should have
their head examined.

Angelo


  #2   Report Post  
Old November 29th 06, 11:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,003
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.

Angelo, although I usually avoid commercial references, we sell Rybka 2.1
upgradable to 2.2 and 2.3 for less than anyone else in the USA, and to
accommodate communication issues gave Convekta use of our forum pages to
answer questions posed directly by customers. Did you get a video file, btw,
"video help for rybka..."

There are 2 basic Rybka products, the engine itself, and 'with Chess
Openings'. I usually recommend buying the CD to avoid any extensive
download.

While I will not apologise for something which I am not responsible for, did
you send your note below to Rybka so that they can appreciate what seem like
real problems for you? My Rybka contact in Moscow speaks excellent English -
which is not to diminish your problem, but to seek to want to solve it.

Can you say what problemns you have, post them to our forum, and we will
note the result?

Cordially, Phil Innes
Business Manger, Chessville.com

"Ange1o DePa1ma" wrote in message
...

I recently purchased a Rybka 2.2 plus Chess Openings download from
Convekta.

BIG MISTAKE.

The interface is complex beyond comprehension. Assorted boxes and windows
appear with no rhyme or reason and I never know if closing one will
"wreck" the setup. Supposedly there is an openings training mode but I
have no idea how to access or otherwise take advantage of it. Even tasks
as simple as entering one of my OTB games and saving it to a database is a
mystery.

Convekta provided a link to the user manual, but the file is written in
Microsoft Word and is nearly 10 Mb. Only the first two pages (out of 56)
of diagrams and graphics are visible. Even though I have 1 GB of RAM on my
machine I get an "insufficient memory to display or print graphics"
message. I tried converting the file to PDF and various other portable
formats but the graphics still did not come through.

Even if the manual were of reasonable size, for $53 I should NOT have to
print out a freaking 56-page book in 4-point type on my inkjet. You'd
think customers would deserve a printed manual no matter how they
purchased it, or at least have the option of obtaining one for a
reasonable fee.

Most annoyingly, the fonts do not load (or display) properly. Instead of
"Nxb3" or a figurine representation I get boxes, Pound Sterling signs, Yen
signs, etc. Nothing I do in the "options/fonts" menu affect this in any
way.

"Customer service" -- central/eastern European style -- available by
email, takes a full day for one turn-around, even though I am up and at my
computer for 12 hours a day. (By contrast, yesterday I was having problems
with a spam blocker and had three exchanges with the product's US-based
customer service department). When Convekta does respond they completely
mis-understand my questions. My luck: to buy a product from the only
company in Europe that does not employ people who speak English better
than I do, or at all.

Consequently the responses generally have nothing to do with my questions.
I am still waiting for another link to the manual for the product I
purchased because "Sasha" still doesn't grasp which product I own (he
originally thought I was running the Rybka 2.2 UCI under Fritz and chided
me for asking him to support a product that he didn't sell!).

His solution for my fonts problem was to re-send me the font file, which I
had already located in the program folder, three days earlier. By the way
it's a RAR file -- what am I supposed to do with that file, Sasha? Move it
to what folder? Install it how? Invoke it through which commands in the
interface? Should I copy it to a floppy disk and pray over it in
Russian??? It's already in the correct folder. Obviously the problem is in
some setup step. Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to find
out -- naaaaaaa!!

I get the feeling looking at the product, working out whatever I can from
the on-screen menus, and reading between the broken graphic links in the
manual, that this is a very powerful, versatile product that could easily
replace ChessBase as my primary database, analysis, and generally speaking
chess training suite. And of course it uses Rybka, which is supposed to be
stronger than CB engines. Unfortunately in software, an ounce of
accessibility (or usability) is always worth a pound of features.

Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings is a very bad presentation by Convekta, showing
a non-existent appreciation for common problems users outside of Ukraine
are likely to experience with it. This group may know me as a CB-basher
but I'll tell you something, Convekta's customer support makes Hans und
Franz from ChessBase GmbH seem like fawning sycophants by comparison.

Perhaps the CD purchase would have worked out better, but it's too late
for that. It looks like an invasion of Convektastan SSR is our only option
now.

Seriously, anyone considering purchasing a Convekta product should have
their head examined.

Angelo



  #3   Report Post  
Old November 30th 06, 02:46 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 589
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.

"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Angelo, although I usually avoid commercial references, we sell Rybka 2.1
upgradable to 2.2 and 2.3 for less than anyone else in the USA, and to
accommodate communication issues gave Convekta use of our forum pages to
answer questions posed directly by customers. Did you get a video file,
btw, "video help for rybka..."

There are 2 basic Rybka products, the engine itself, and 'with Chess
Openings'. I usually recommend buying the CD to avoid any extensive
download.

While I will not apologise for something which I am not responsible for,
did you send your note below to Rybka so that they can appreciate what
seem like real problems for you? My Rybka contact in Moscow speaks
excellent English - which is not to diminish your problem, but to seek to
want to solve it.

Can you say what problemns you have, post them to our forum, and we will
note the result?

Cordially, Phil Innes
Business Manger, Chessville.com

"Ange1o DePa1ma" wrote in message
...

I recently purchased a Rybka 2.2 plus Chess Openings download from
Convekta.

BIG MISTAKE.

The interface is complex beyond comprehension. Assorted boxes and windows
appear with no rhyme or reason and I never know if closing one will
"wreck" the setup. Supposedly there is an openings training mode but I
have no idea how to access or otherwise take advantage of it. Even tasks
as simple as entering one of my OTB games and saving it to a database is
a mystery.

Convekta provided a link to the user manual, but the file is written in
Microsoft Word and is nearly 10 Mb. Only the first two pages (out of 56)
of diagrams and graphics are visible. Even though I have 1 GB of RAM on
my machine I get an "insufficient memory to display or print graphics"
message. I tried converting the file to PDF and various other portable
formats but the graphics still did not come through.

Even if the manual were of reasonable size, for $53 I should NOT have to
print out a freaking 56-page book in 4-point type on my inkjet. You'd
think customers would deserve a printed manual no matter how they
purchased it, or at least have the option of obtaining one for a
reasonable fee.

Most annoyingly, the fonts do not load (or display) properly. Instead of
"Nxb3" or a figurine representation I get boxes, Pound Sterling signs,
Yen signs, etc. Nothing I do in the "options/fonts" menu affect this in
any way.

"Customer service" -- central/eastern European style -- available by
email, takes a full day for one turn-around, even though I am up and at
my computer for 12 hours a day. (By contrast, yesterday I was having
problems with a spam blocker and had three exchanges with the product's
US-based customer service department). When Convekta does respond they
completely mis-understand my questions. My luck: to buy a product from
the only company in Europe that does not employ people who speak English
better than I do, or at all.

Consequently the responses generally have nothing to do with my
questions. I am still waiting for another link to the manual for the
product I purchased because "Sasha" still doesn't grasp which product I
own (he originally thought I was running the Rybka 2.2 UCI under Fritz
and chided me for asking him to support a product that he didn't sell!).

His solution for my fonts problem was to re-send me the font file, which
I had already located in the program folder, three days earlier. By the
way it's a RAR file -- what am I supposed to do with that file, Sasha?
Move it to what folder? Install it how? Invoke it through which commands
in the interface? Should I copy it to a floppy disk and pray over it in
Russian??? It's already in the correct folder. Obviously the problem is
in some setup step. Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to
find out -- naaaaaaa!!

I get the feeling looking at the product, working out whatever I can from
the on-screen menus, and reading between the broken graphic links in the
manual, that this is a very powerful, versatile product that could easily
replace ChessBase as my primary database, analysis, and generally
speaking chess training suite. And of course it uses Rybka, which is
supposed to be stronger than CB engines. Unfortunately in software, an
ounce of accessibility (or usability) is always worth a pound of
features.

Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings is a very bad presentation by Convekta,
showing a non-existent appreciation for common problems users outside of
Ukraine are likely to experience with it. This group may know me as a
CB-basher but I'll tell you something, Convekta's customer support makes
Hans und Franz from ChessBase GmbH seem like fawning sycophants by
comparison.

Perhaps the CD purchase would have worked out better, but it's too late
for that. It looks like an invasion of Convektastan SSR is our only
option now.

Seriously, anyone considering purchasing a Convekta product should have
their head examined.

Angelo


Thanks Phil. I wish I had seen your ad before I plunged ahead into this
purchase. I do recall seeing reference to a video file, but I don't think I
received it. Do you have a link?

Anyway, Sasha finally helped me solve my fonts problem by suggesting I
re-install them. He even sent me directions on how to do so, despite the
fact that Convekta doesn't support Microsoft Windows

However, he told me there was no way I'd get a printed manual.

Poor Sasha must have forwarded my email, which threatened to withold credit
card payment until my questions were answered satisfactorily, to his
supervisor because a very nice lady emailed me out of the blue some time
later saying they'd be happy to send me a printed copy of the manual,
apparently gratis.

I admit I was a bit hot-headed about this. Among my personality quirks is an
aversion to having my time wasted by others, especially after they've taken
my money. I actually don't mind having to read the manual for such a
complex, powerful product as Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings. I'm even looking
forward to working my way through it, because from what I could see in the
MS Word version it is well written, informative, and at 56 pages in length
(at 4-point type) probably comprehensive as well. I was miffed, however, at
having spent perhaps 6-7 hours with my new toy and not being able even to
find the "ON" button.

I'll check out the forum as well.

Thanks,

Angelo


  #4   Report Post  
Old November 30th 06, 10:37 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,003
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.


"Ange1o DePa1ma" wrote in message
...

Thanks Phil. I wish I had seen your ad before I plunged ahead into this
purchase. I do recall seeing reference to a video file, but I don't think
I received it. Do you have a link?


Mine loaded with the CD, but I also used 2.1 with Openings - if you are
still stuck tonight send me e-mail and I'll get the nice people in Moscow to
send you a downloadable file. If you try/fail tonight and wizz me a note by
tomorrow morning - we'll still get to them before their weekend dacha stint!

Anyway, Sasha finally helped me solve my fonts problem by suggesting I
re-install them. He even sent me directions on how to do so, despite the
fact that Convekta doesn't support Microsoft Windows

However, he told me there was no way I'd get a printed manual.

Poor Sasha must have forwarded my email, which threatened to withold
credit card payment until my questions were answered satisfactorily, to
his supervisor because a very nice lady emailed me out of the blue some
time later saying they'd be happy to send me a printed copy of the manual,
apparently gratis.

I admit I was a bit hot-headed about this. Among my personality quirks is
an aversion to having my time wasted by others, especially after they've
taken my money. I actually don't mind having to read the manual for such a
complex, powerful product as Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings. I'm even looking
forward to working my way through it, because from what I could see in the
MS Word version it is well written, informative, and at 56 pages in length
(at 4-point type) probably comprehensive as well. I was miffed, however,
at having spent perhaps 6-7 hours with my new toy and not being able even
to find the "ON" button.

I'll check out the forum as well.


Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through them.
Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I am going
to mention ;(

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka to
Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.

Phil


Thanks,

Angelo



  #5   Report Post  
Old December 1st 06, 12:54 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.


Chess One wrote:

Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through them.
Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I am going
to mention ;(

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka to
Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.



IM Innes, you simply have to turn off the openings
book and you will crush it like a bug, remember?
Don't let the 3000+ SSDF rating fool you; without its
book module, the program is a putz, just as you --
for years -- tried in vain to explain to Mr. Hyatt.

-- help bot



  #6   Report Post  
Old December 1st 06, 02:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,003
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.


"help bot" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chess One wrote:

Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through
them.
Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I am
going
to mention ;(

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka
to
Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.



IM Innes, you simply have to turn off the openings
book and you will crush it like a bug, remember?
Don't let the 3000+ SSDF rating fool you; without its
book module, the program is a putz, just as you --
for years -- tried in vain to explain to Mr. Hyatt.


I'm sorry, but my processor speed is now x4 faster than then, than even his
quad-4.

Even so, the point avoided by programmers is that there are no tests against
the rating's pool of players. And therefore we are dealing with 'sort-of'
ratings.

If any programmer really wanted to test the worth of their program - they
would challenge GMs with book-off, then when that fails, they should
challenge masters, and when they score in about the middle of the range of
players they are engaging +/- 100 points, then that is the engine's playing
strength as a distinctly seperate category from the program's playing
strength [ex, book, ex end-tables, and all 'look-ups'].

Otherwise its all hot-air and despite endless talk, nothing but *special*
ratings which would be not allowed any more than what Tanner is being
accused of: Too small a pool of opponents, almost all of which are other
programs [insufficient X for ELO] using perfect look-ups of GM chess that
the engine's themselves cannot even play.

Robt Hyatt once told me that Crafty would never play the Ruy since 3. Bb5
looks like a very poor move.

Phil Innes

-- help bot



  #7   Report Post  
Old December 1st 06, 08:16 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 589
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.

"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"help bot" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chess One wrote:

Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through
them.
Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I am
going
to mention ;(

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka
to
Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.



IM Innes, you simply have to turn off the openings
book and you will crush it like a bug, remember?
Don't let the 3000+ SSDF rating fool you; without its
book module, the program is a putz, just as you --
for years -- tried in vain to explain to Mr. Hyatt.


I'm sorry, but my processor speed is now x4 faster than then, than even
his quad-4.

Even so, the point avoided by programmers is that there are no tests
against the rating's pool of players. And therefore we are dealing with
'sort-of' ratings.

If any programmer really wanted to test the worth of their program - they
would challenge GMs with book-off, then when that fails, they should
challenge masters, and when they score in about the middle of the range of
players they are engaging +/- 100 points, then that is the engine's
playing strength as a distinctly seperate category from the program's
playing strength [ex, book, ex end-tables, and all 'look-ups'].

Otherwise its all hot-air and despite endless talk, nothing but *special*
ratings which would be not allowed any more than what Tanner is being
accused of: Too small a pool of opponents, almost all of which are other
programs [insufficient X for ELO] using perfect look-ups of GM chess that
the engine's themselves cannot even play.

Robt Hyatt once told me that Crafty would never play the Ruy since 3. Bb5
looks like a very poor move.

Phil Innes


I was always surprised that in GM-machine events the GMs allowed the
computers to use their opening book. At the very least it should be turned
off at move 10 or so. Imagine how well I'd play if I could keep a copy of
Nunn's Chess Openings or Informant open during my games. I might even be
able to beat Sam Sloan from the White side of the Damiano.


  #8   Report Post  
Old December 1st 06, 08:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 589
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.

"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Ange1o DePa1ma" wrote in message
...

Thanks Phil. I wish I had seen your ad before I plunged ahead into this
purchase. I do recall seeing reference to a video file, but I don't think
I received it. Do you have a link?


Mine loaded with the CD, but I also used 2.1 with Openings - if you are
still stuck tonight send me e-mail and I'll get the nice people in Moscow
to send you a downloadable file. If you try/fail tonight and wizz me a
note by tomorrow morning - we'll still get to them before their weekend
dacha stint!

Anyway, Sasha finally helped me solve my fonts problem by suggesting I
re-install them. He even sent me directions on how to do so, despite the
fact that Convekta doesn't support Microsoft Windows

However, he told me there was no way I'd get a printed manual.

Poor Sasha must have forwarded my email, which threatened to withold
credit card payment until my questions were answered satisfactorily, to
his supervisor because a very nice lady emailed me out of the blue some
time later saying they'd be happy to send me a printed copy of the
manual, apparently gratis.

I admit I was a bit hot-headed about this. Among my personality quirks is
an aversion to having my time wasted by others, especially after they've
taken my money. I actually don't mind having to read the manual for such
a complex, powerful product as Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings. I'm even
looking forward to working my way through it, because from what I could
see in the MS Word version it is well written, informative, and at 56
pages in length (at 4-point type) probably comprehensive as well. I was
miffed, however, at having spent perhaps 6-7 hours with my new toy and
not being able even to find the "ON" button.

I'll check out the forum as well.


Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through
them. Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I
am going to mention ;(


You gotta be kidding! I'm rated 1890 at this point, and sinking. I couldn't
draw Rybka if it gave me a Knight, much less beat it.

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka
to Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.


I have a feeling, despite my original customer support problems, that this
program is a keeper, a great value. I'm going to go through the manual very
carefully when I get it. I just hope they don't send me the
Slobovian-language version.

adp

Phil


Thanks,

Angelo





  #9   Report Post  
Old December 4th 06, 10:09 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default Rybka 2.2 + Chess Openings = P.O.S.


Chess One wrote:

"help bot" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chess One wrote:

Okay - I had some of the same problems as you but am fighting through
them.
Beaten it yet? I have one draw at 10 minutes, and more loses than I am
going
to mention ;(

I haven't figured out how to switch the same game in progress from Rybka
to Crafty yet, maybe I can just copy/paste the moves? I'll try it.


IM Innes, you simply have to turn off the openings
book and you will crush it like a bug, remember?


Only in his dreams.

Don't let the 3000+ SSDF rating fool you; without its
book module, the program is a putz, just as you --
for years -- tried in vain to explain to Mr. Hyatt.


I'm sorry, but my processor speed is now x4 faster than then, than even his
quad-4.

Even so, the point avoided by programmers is that there are no tests against
the rating's pool of players. And therefore we are dealing with 'sort-of'
ratings.


So are you beginning to grudgingly accept that modern chess engine
ratings are not all that wide of the mark ?

It is pretty obvious that for marketting reasons the engine writers
will always use the highest possible rating they can claim. And I don't
doubt that there is an incestuous ratings inflation war occurring in
the engine-engine games pool.

If any programmer really wanted to test the worth of their program - they
would challenge GMs with book-off, then when that fails, they should
challenge masters, and when they score in about the middle of the range of
players they are engaging +/- 100 points, then that is the engine's playing
strength as a distinctly seperate category from the program's playing
strength [ex, book, ex end-tables, and all 'look-ups'].


The engine should be allowed an opening book consisting of its own
analysis with no human interference. It is unreasonable to require it
to compute openings from scratch at excessive depth when its human
opponent is relying on memorised opening book variations.

Originally chess engines were so weak without an opening book that it
was the norm to avoid collosal opening blunders, but now they are
strong enough to make the opening book an issue that is only really
relevant when they play against GM or stronger players.

It would make an interesting internet project to compute a pure engine
generated book by farming out the task across a large number of PCs and
merging the result. Similarly checking the existing human generated
powerbooks aggressively for errors with modern engines would be
worthwhile - there are some notable defects hidden in them!

Otherwise its all hot-air and despite endless talk, nothing but *special*
ratings which would be not allowed any more than what Tanner is being
accused of: Too small a pool of opponents, almost all of which are other
programs [insufficient X for ELO] using perfect look-ups of GM chess that
the engine's themselves cannot even play.


You can't really say that about the Kramnik vs Fritz10 match running
now. Both sides can use the same opening book for reference (the other
obvious solution for a fair match).

And Kramnik is holding his own very well against the program (apart
from astonishingly missing a mate in 1 with a potentially won
position). I estimate that the Fritz10 match hardware is about a factor
of ten below the performance needed to beat a super GM reliably (based
on the timings needed to accurately analyse the WCC games).

Robt Hyatt once told me that Crafty would never play the Ruy since 3. Bb5
looks like a very poor move.


Ruy Lopez wasn't all that convinced by his own named opening either.

I don't doubt your word that Dr Hyatt said that. But it seems he was
wrong. Crafty 19.01 with 256MB cache sometimes gets 3. Bb5 as the
preferred line rather than 3. Bc4 in searches to plys around 16 (after
about 12 hours on a 3GHz machine). Currently at ply 17 it has 3. Bc4
0.09 and 3. Bb5 0.01 (at ply 16 they were 0.01 and 0.1 - ie roughly
swapped around).

And if you allow for say 5 centipawns of Gaussian noise dither on the
raw evaluation function it might still sometimes play the nominaly
"inferior" line.

Engines like Shredder with better pawn structure and positional
awareness get 3. Bb5 top for a fair proportion of the time (and at
depth it prefers Bb5 for plys 19 through 22, with 23 reverting to Bc4,
and 24 still running). At ply 20 [ 23 ] the top 5 ranking moves a

3. Bb5 0.42 [ 0.24 ]
3. d4 0.31 [ 0.19 ]
3. Bc4 0.30 [ 0.31 ]
3. Nc3 0.23 [ 0.17 ]
3. Be2 0.23 [ 0.03 ]
(everything else negative)

Regards,
Martin Brown

  #10   Report Post  
Old December 4th 06, 11:11 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Play at GetClub.com Chess Unlimited


Ange1o DePa1ma wrote:
I recently purchased a Rybka 2.2 plus Chess Openings download from Convekta.

BIG MISTAKE.


Play Chess with Human Opponents as well as Computer. No download
needed.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

You can play with 5 different Levels very Strong or Beginner Levels.
Your each Game is recorded for future analysis. You get Ratings on
winning Games and also Prizes to purchase more Games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of Authors Banned or Blacklisted by USCF Sales Sam Sloan rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 102 June 12th 06 03:34 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 May 23rd 06 05:24 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 February 19th 06 05:44 AM
Computer Chess; Chess Books Sanford rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 2 December 6th 05 08:34 PM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 November 18th 05 05:36 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017