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Old January 23rd 04, 06:15 PM
Euc1id
 
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Default Shredder 8 is much faster

Shredder 8 is much faster compared to Shredder 7.04. About 6x faster in my
tests. I'm not talking about kN/s. They're very similar in that regard. But
the Shredder 8 engine gets to the same search depth about 6x faster than the
Shredder 704 engine.

For example with a particular position it took Shredder 704 about 6 hours to
arrive at the 21/50 search depth, but only about 1 hour for Shredder 8.

I'm curious if others notice this kind of difference. I've tried both the
Classic Shredder 6 GUI and the native Shredder 8 CB GUI, and they seem to be
about the same.

I always suspected that I might have a bad-CD version of Shredder 7. Maybe,
maybe not - your response could help to clarify.
--
Euc1id


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Old January 23rd 04, 07:35 PM
Electron
 
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Default Shredder 8 is much faster


"Euc1id" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Shredder 8 is much faster compared to Shredder 7.04. About 6x faster in my
tests. I'm not talking about kN/s. They're very similar in that regard.

But
the Shredder 8 engine gets to the same search depth about 6x faster than

the
Shredder 704 engine.

For example with a particular position it took Shredder 704 about 6 hours

to
arrive at the 21/50 search depth, but only about 1 hour for Shredder 8.


Haven't noticed, but I've played a series of games between the 7.04 and 8
engines at 60min and haven't noticed any difference in playing strength.

Regards


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Old January 23rd 04, 08:16 PM
Yves Surmont
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

This is pretty amazing - can you tell us on what hardware you're running the
programs and give us some test positions?

--
http://users.pandora.be/yves.surmont/twic.htm
"Euc1id" schreef in bericht
hlink.net...
Shredder 8 is much faster compared to Shredder 7.04. About 6x faster in my
tests. I'm not talking about kN/s. They're very similar in that regard.

But
the Shredder 8 engine gets to the same search depth about 6x faster than

the
Shredder 704 engine.

For example with a particular position it took Shredder 704 about 6 hours

to
arrive at the 21/50 search depth, but only about 1 hour for Shredder 8



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Old January 23rd 04, 09:13 PM
Stefek Borkowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

Electron wrote:
...
Haven't noticed, but I've played a series of games between the 7.04
and 8 engines at 60min and haven't noticed any difference in playing
strength.

Try to solve that childlish position with both Fritz8 and Shredder8. You
will be surprised to see the difference! Haven't made any shoot-outs
between these engines but I have noticed that Shredder8 engine libraries are
about twice as big as those of Shredder7 or Fritz8. Maybe this means
something...? When I tried to play myself with the Shredder8 engine, I had a
feeling that it is real fast, faster than the others. It's just my feeling
anyway. No serious tests...
Regards,
Stefek from Poland

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Old January 23rd 04, 09:17 PM
Stefek Borkowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

Electron wrote:
...
Haven't noticed, but I've played a series of games between the 7.04
and 8 engines at 60min and haven't noticed any difference in playing
strength.


Try to solve that childlish position with both Fritz8 and Shredder8. You
will be surprised to see the difference!
# ----------------------------------
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2003.12.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Fritz 7"]
[Black "Stefek"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6kr/5b1p/2p3pP/rpPp1pP1/pP1PpP2/P3P3/1K6/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "1"]

1. bxa5 *
# ----------------------------------
Haven't made any shoot-outs
between these engines but I have noticed that Shredder8 engine libraries are
about twice as big as those of Shredder7 or Fritz8. Maybe this means
something...? When I tried to play myself with the Shredder8 engine, I had a
feeling that it is real fast, faster than the others. It's just my feeling
anyway. No serious tests...
Regards,
Stefek from Poland



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Old January 23rd 04, 09:26 PM
CCamp81318
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

I would consider the new version faster if and only if it scored as well on the
Tactics marathon test as the old version and did so in less time. On my AMD 64
3200+ (original version) Shredder 7.04 scored 195 out of 210 with an average
time for the solved problems of 14.73s. I allowed it to search for 305s.

CT
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Old January 24th 04, 05:05 AM
Euc1id
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

They are just ordinary positions from my games, nothing in particular. I'm
using an XP 2400+ and 1GB RAM, usually 512MB hash. Nothing special there.

It seems obvious that the Shedder search algorithm has been changed to spend
much less time at each level of the search. Whether the resulting move
selections are stronger, I can't say (yet). The appearance is that it's much
faster. I only use it in infinite analysis mode running for an hour or more,
and it is good for that purpose, not taking too long for the next ply's
search results to appear.

Unfortunately the buggy analysis characteristics of Shredder 704 continues
with Shredder 8, so only the 1st move (the best candidate move) can be
trusted - nothing more. It likes to give away its queen and other pieces in
the analysis, which is essentially worthless. Sometimes the analysis lines
make sense, but about half of the time they're pure nonsense.

If you want good analysis, Shredder isn't the right program to choose. If
you just want to find the best move in a position, it may be the best
program.
--
Euc1id

"Yves Surmont" wrote in message
...
This is pretty amazing - can you tell us on what hardware you're running the
programs and give us some test positions?

--
http://users.pandora.be/yves.surmont/twic.htm
"Euc1id" schreef in bericht
hlink.net...
Shredder 8 is much faster compared to Shredder 7.04. About 6x faster in my
tests. I'm not talking about kN/s. They're very similar in that regard.

But
the Shredder 8 engine gets to the same search depth about 6x faster than

the
Shredder 704 engine.

For example with a particular position it took Shredder 704 about 6 hours

to
arrive at the 21/50 search depth, but only about 1 hour for Shredder 8




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Old January 24th 04, 12:59 PM
Tuyen Do
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

Congratulations to the programer of Shredder.

Great Job!

-Tuyen


  #9   Report Post  
Old January 24th 04, 06:43 PM
pdoire
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is much faster

"Tuyen Do" wrote in message ...
Congratulations to the programer of Shredder.

Great Job!

-Tuyen


30 games 3min....good for server matches. It seems faster and stronger.

S704,S8 agg,2700Draw.ctg Blitz:3' 0

123456789012345678901234567890
1 Shredder 8 1111111010011111 20.0/30
2 Shredder 7.04 0000000101100000 10.0/30
  #10   Report Post  
Old January 25th 04, 11:33 AM
Euc1id
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 is usually faster - but it varies

As I continue to use Shredder 8, I see that the speedup that I mentioned
below varies with the position. I found one game which has a very
complicated position with a lot of pieces on an open board where Shredder 8
is about the same speed as Shredder 704, perhaps slightly slower. I found
another position without much piece play, which has a long locked pawn chain
across the chessboard, where Shredder 8 runs about 10x faster than Shredder
704. But in the average run-of-the-mill position that you encounter 95%+ of
the time in chess, it tends to run about 5-6x faster. Again, I'm not talking
about kN/s, just about the time it takes to reach a particular search depth
as indicated by the ply level. As a rule of thumb, Shredder 8 usually
reaches a couple of ply deeper in its search than Shredder 704 in the same
amount of time.
--
Euc1id

"Euc1id" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Shredder 8 is much faster compared to Shredder 7.04. About 6x faster in my
tests. I'm not talking about kN/s. They're very similar in that regard. But
the Shredder 8 engine gets to the same search depth about 6x faster than the
Shredder 704 engine.

For example with a particular position it took Shredder 704 about 6 hours to
arrive at the 21/50 search depth, but only about 1 hour for Shredder 8.

I'm curious if others notice this kind of difference. I've tried both the
Classic Shredder 6 GUI and the native Shredder 8 CB GUI, and they seem to be
about the same.

I always suspected that I might have a bad-CD version of Shredder 7. Maybe,
maybe not - your response could help to clarify.
--
Euc1id



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