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Old January 31st 07, 05:12 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 1
Default FRITZ is a great analysis tool!

I used to buy chessbooks all the time and pore over them, trying to
study openings, tactics,
stratagems. They actually HURT my chess, because in my games I would
try to immediately
apply what I learned, even when the position did not call for it.
Also, they fostered a sense
of "theory" which is actually quite dangerous to the concrete
possibilities of any given position.
So, even though I could play an opening well, and even create an
advantage, I would have
no idea how to play the rest of the game. Same with tactics--I would
"see" a sacrificial
attack, and then follow up incorrectly, and lose to some pawn pusher
with no imagination.
So I threw out all my "theory" books.

Then I switched to studying master games (with commentary). The
problem with that was
the annotator would start discussing move 23 and I was wondering why a
pawn was not
taken on move 19. Or the variations would be so long and heavy, I
would forget where
the hell I was in the game, and sometimes would not even finish
studying the game.

But now, I just play games, and then analyze them using Fritz. It is
wonderful, because
you just switch on the "Infinite analysis" and replay your game, and
the program immediately
evaluates the position and suggests a list of moves, ordered by
strength. Often, my
moves fall to the bottom of that list! It is eye-opening, because
Fritz sees so many possibilities
and better moves--and not stupid, pawn-grabbing computer moves,
either--but very clever
and subtle moves. It is a GREAT learning tool, and has vastly
improved my chess.

As far as master games--I still study them (pref with Fritz), but
WITHOUT commentary. This is because if I don't know why a pawn was
not taken on move 19, I shouldn't "skip" over it, but play it out with
Fritz to see where it goes, and why the master did not take it.
That's a great
way to learn.

THROW OUT YOUR CHESS BOOKS PEOPLE!

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Old January 31st 07, 05:34 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2005
Posts: 178
Default FRITZ is a great analysis tool!


"straightshooter" schreef in bericht
oups.com...
I used to buy chessbooks all the time and pore over them, trying to
study openings, tactics,
stratagems. They actually HURT my chess, because in my games I would
try to immediately
apply what I learned, even when the position did not call for it.
Also, they fostered a sense
of "theory" which is actually quite dangerous to the concrete
possibilities of any given position.
So, even though I could play an opening well, and even create an
advantage, I would have
no idea how to play the rest of the game. Same with tactics--I would
"see" a sacrificial
attack, and then follow up incorrectly, and lose to some pawn pusher
with no imagination.
So I threw out all my "theory" books.

Then I switched to studying master games (with commentary). The
problem with that was
the annotator would start discussing move 23 and I was wondering why a
pawn was not
taken on move 19. Or the variations would be so long and heavy, I
would forget where
the hell I was in the game, and sometimes would not even finish
studying the game.

But now, I just play games, and then analyze them using Fritz. It is
wonderful, because
you just switch on the "Infinite analysis" and replay your game, and
the program immediately
evaluates the position and suggests a list of moves, ordered by
strength. Often, my
moves fall to the bottom of that list! It is eye-opening, because
Fritz sees so many possibilities
and better moves--and not stupid, pawn-grabbing computer moves,
either--but very clever
and subtle moves. It is a GREAT learning tool, and has vastly
improved my chess.

As far as master games--I still study them (pref with Fritz), but
WITHOUT commentary. This is because if I don't know why a pawn was
not taken on move 19, I shouldn't "skip" over it, but play it out with
Fritz to see where it goes, and why the master did not take it.
That's a great
way to learn.

THROW OUT YOUR CHESS BOOKS PEOPLE!


It's true you can check possibilities and mistakes very quickly. But it's
also true, that you have to put in some energy yourself, to figure out how
to play certain positions. And explanations of choices are very important
too (f.i. figuring out how to play a KNB vs. Ka- endgame, is more difficult
with just an engine, if you don't have had the trick explained by someone,
in a book or at your chessclub).
And also solving chessproblems, easy and difficult, will improve your game a
lot.
All I'm trying to say is: the temptation of an engine telling you what to do
could make you lazy at a certain point, and doesn't give you the
satisfactions of discovering solutions yourself.


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Old January 31st 07, 08:09 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 364
Default FRITZ is a great analysis tool!

Den 2007-01-31 18:12:19 skrev straightshooter :

I used to buy chessbooks all the time and pore over them, trying to
study openings, tactics,
stratagems. They actually HURT my chess, because in my games I would
try to immediately
apply what I learned, even when the position did not call for it.
Also, they fostered a sense
of "theory" which is actually quite dangerous to the concrete
possibilities of any given position.
So, even though I could play an opening well, and even create an
advantage, I would have
no idea how to play the rest of the game. Same with tactics--I would
"see" a sacrificial
attack, and then follow up incorrectly, and lose to some pawn pusher
with no imagination.
So I threw out all my "theory" books.

Then I switched to studying master games (with commentary). The
problem with that was
the annotator would start discussing move 23 and I was wondering why a
pawn was not
taken on move 19. Or the variations would be so long and heavy, I
would forget where
the hell I was in the game, and sometimes would not even finish
studying the game.

But now, I just play games, and then analyze them using Fritz. It is
wonderful, because
you just switch on the "Infinite analysis" and replay your game, and
the program immediately
evaluates the position and suggests a list of moves, ordered by
strength. Often, my
moves fall to the bottom of that list! It is eye-opening, because
Fritz sees so many possibilities
and better moves--and not stupid, pawn-grabbing computer moves,
either--but very clever
and subtle moves. It is a GREAT learning tool, and has vastly
improved my chess.

As far as master games--I still study them (pref with Fritz), but
WITHOUT commentary. This is because if I don't know why a pawn was
not taken on move 19, I shouldn't "skip" over it, but play it out with
Fritz to see where it goes, and why the master did not take it.
That's a great
way to learn.

THROW OUT YOUR CHESS BOOKS PEOPLE!


I had the same "theoretical attitude" problem. I needed to become
more pragmatic. One important factor is the capability to calculate
variations.
I always admired Tigran Petrosian because his sense of pragmatism, still he
had a deep originality of play. He said that he learned to calculate by
reading
chess books, and by trying to manage without a chess board between the
diagrams. To train the faculty of concrete calculation is important so I
created
this blindfold chess program which is ideal for this type of training (DOS
freeware).
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/blindc.htm
(it now plays a stronger game of chess).

Mats
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Old January 31st 07, 11:07 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 28
Default FRITZ is a great analysis tool!


Well, OK. Fritz can't be beaten yet for GUI features that help you
(also check out Blunder Check). But study this list (and the whole
site) for playing strength.

http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

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Old February 1st 07, 12:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,598
Default FRITZ is a great analysis tool!

straightshooter wrote:
I used to buy chessbooks all the time and pore over them, trying to
study openings, tactics, stratagems. They actually HURT my chess,
because in my games I would try to immediately apply what I learned,
even when the position did not call for it.


That's your fault, not the books'.


So, even though I could play an opening well, and even create an
advantage, I would have no idea how to play the rest of the game.


Then you hadn't created an advantage in any meaningful sense.
Arguably, you hadn't played the opening well because you hadn't used
it to get into a position where you could play well.


Same with tactics--I would "see" a sacrificial attack, and then
follow up incorrectly, and lose to some pawn pusher with no
imagination.


Then your analysis was too superficial.


Then I switched to studying master games (with commentary). The
problem with that was the annotator would start discussing move 23
and I was wondering why a pawn was not taken on move 19. Or the
variations would be so long and heavy, I would forget where the hell
I was in the game, and sometimes would not even finish studying the
game.


Then the analysis was inappropriate to your level.


But now, I just play games, and then analyze them using Fritz. It
is wonderful, because you just switch on the "Infinite analysis" and
replay your game, and the program immediately evaluates the position
and suggests a list of moves, ordered by strength. Often, my moves
fall to the bottom of that list! It is eye-opening, because Fritz
sees so many possibilities and better moves--and not stupid,
pawn-grabbing computer moves, either--but very clever and subtle
moves. It is a GREAT learning tool, and has vastly improved my
chess.


This is an excellent way to study, yes. But I'm worried that you'll
apply the same methods to your study with Fritz as you did with
books. Before, you were playing moves because the books said they
were good, without understanding why they were good. Now, will you be
blindly playing moves because Fritz says they're good? Fritz gives
even less explanation of why the move is good (i.e., none at all) than
the books.

I also wonder how you can really know that Fritz's moves are `very
clever and subtle'.


As far as master games--I still study them (pref with Fritz), but
WITHOUT commentary. This is because if I don't know why a pawn was
not taken on move 19, I shouldn't "skip" over it, but play it out
with Fritz to see where it goes, and why the master did not take it.
That's a great way to learn.


That is a great way to learn, yes. Another good way to use master
games is to play through them and try to guess the moves of the
winning side. Try to spend about as much time on each move as you
would in a tournament game. Make a note of when you were wrong and
use Fritz to see if your move was significantly worse than the
master's move and why.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Revolting Hilarious Vomit (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a pile of puke but it's a bundle
of laughs and it'll turn your stomach!
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