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Old January 27th 04, 04:25 PM
Liam Too
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

What does the kN/s mean?

If I run Shredder 8, the kN/s is around 300. However, if I run Fritz 8
the kN/s is around 1300.

Lance Smith
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Old January 27th 04, 05:23 PM
Damir Ulovec
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

Did you try to read help or manual before this? NHF
kN/s (kilo nodes per second) is a term for number of positions the engine is
generating and evaluating per second.
This means that Shredder 8 on YOUR computer can evaluate about 300.000
positions per second, and, of course, Fritz 8 engine can evaluate about
1.300.000 positions per second.
But this big difference between S8 and F8 here is mistery for me.
Anybody?

"Liam Too" wrote in message
om...
What does the kN/s mean?

If I run Shredder 8, the kN/s is around 300. However, if I run Fritz 8
the kN/s is around 1300.

Lance Smith



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Old January 27th 04, 05:43 PM
Robert Hyatt
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

Liam Too wrote:
What does the kN/s mean?


K nodes per second. Or 1000 nodes per second...

300 = 300 * 1000 = 300,000 nodes per second.


If I run Shredder 8, the kN/s is around 300. However, if I run Fritz 8
the kN/s is around 1300.


Lance Smith


--
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University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213 136A Campbell Hall
(205) 934-5473 FAX Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
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Old January 27th 04, 05:59 PM
HD
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

Damir Ulovec skrev:
Did you try to read help or manual before this? NHF
kN/s (kilo nodes per second) is a term for number of positions the engine is
generating and evaluating per second.
This means that Shredder 8 on YOUR computer can evaluate about 300.000
positions per second, and, of course, Fritz 8 engine can evaluate about
1.300.000 positions per second.
But this big difference between S8 and F8 here is mistery for me.
Anybody?



Yes, different computers or very different positions..!? 280-320 for
Shredder use to be around 600-800 for Fritz, and only rarely more (as of
what I've seen on any machine). 1300 sounds more like Junior on the same
hardware.

HD

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Old January 27th 04, 06:02 PM
David Richerby
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

Liam Too wrote:
What does the kN/s mean?


Thousands of nodes (positions) considered per second.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Poisonous Game (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ family board game but it'll kill you
in seconds!


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Old January 27th 04, 10:46 PM
Liam Too
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

David Richerby wrote in message ...
Liam Too wrote:
What does the kN/s mean?


Thousands of nodes (positions) considered per second. Dave


Thanks for all the replies.

It was Junior 8 who does 1300, Frtiz 8 at 800 and Shredder 8 at 300.

I wonder why Shredder considers the least positions per second and
still be the strongest amoung the 3 programs?

Lance Smith
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Old January 28th 04, 06:05 AM
Euc1id
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

The usual rationale is that it sacrifices some speed in favor of better
positional understanding. To put it another way, it evaluates each position
(node) using more variables. The more variables, the slower the evaluation.
If the variables are well chosen then it results in a net gain of strength.
--
Euc1id

"Liam Too" wrote in message
om...
David Richerby wrote in message
...
Liam Too wrote:
What does the kN/s mean?


Thousands of nodes (positions) considered per second. Dave


Thanks for all the replies.

It was Junior 8 who does 1300, Frtiz 8 at 800 and Shredder 8 at 300.

I wonder why Shredder considers the least positions per second and
still be the strongest amoung the 3 programs?

Lance Smith


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Old January 28th 04, 08:14 AM
Alexander Belov
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

"Liam Too" wrote in message
om...
David Richerby wrote in message

...
Liam Too wrote:
What does the kN/s mean?


Thousands of nodes (positions) considered per second. Dave


Thanks for all the replies.

It was Junior 8 who does 1300, Frtiz 8 at 800 and Shredder 8 at 300.

I wonder why Shredder considers the least positions per second and
still be the strongest amoung the 3 programs?

Lance Smith


Its aim is to find the best move, but not to analyse all positions with
light speed -
this is impossible. The better it understands positions the more branches it
can skip in the search tree.


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Old January 28th 04, 08:27 AM
David Richerby
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

Euc1id wrote:
The usual rationale is that it sacrifices some speed in favor of better
positional understanding. To put it another way, it evaluates each
position (node) using more variables. The more variables, the slower the
evaluation. If the variables are well chosen then it results in a net
gain of strength.


There are three factors that contribute to the speed of an engine: how
many positions it considers per second, how well it evaluates those
positions and which positions it considers. Very good move-ordering
heuristics will mean that you consider the best move in a position very
early, which saves time from not considering lots of bad moves. A very
good static evaluation of the positions means that you don't have to
search as deeply, which means you don't need to consider so many
positions. But better move ordering and better static evaluation take
more time to do, so you can consider fewer positions per second; this is
usually a good tradeoff.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Fluorescent.com (TM): it's like an
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ E-commerce portal but it'll hurt
your eyes!
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Old January 28th 04, 02:24 PM
Liam Too
 
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Default kN/s on Shredder 8 and Fritz 8

"Euc1id" wrote in message hlink.net...
The usual rationale is that it sacrifices some speed in favor of better
positional understanding. To put it another way, it evaluates each position
(node) using more variables. The more variables, the slower the evaluation.
If the variables are well chosen then it results in a net gain of strength.
--
Euc1id


That's a very good software development. I totally agree, some
positions need not be analyzed anyway because they're not the best
options in the overall positional structure of the chess board.

I also found out in my ongoing testing that although Junior 8 starts
at 1300 kN/s, it wanes down to less that 10kN/s after running so many
hours and Shredder 8 stays consistent at around 300kN/s.


Lance Smith
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