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-   -   Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second (https://www.chessbanter.com/rec-games-chess-computer-computer-chess/2703-tiger-genius-palm-positions-per-second.html)

Richard February 4th 04 12:16 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
I've got both Chess Tiger 15.1 and Genius 2.01 on a crappy Palm Zire
(16Mhz). I've noticed that during analysis Chess Tiger calculates
significantly fewer positions per second than Genius. For example,
Tiger rarely gets about 200p/s, while Genius calculates 1000p/s on the
same position.

I've only got a basic Zire, so there's no ARM processor take advantage
of Genius' native ARM engine.

I could understand a smaller different in pos/sec, but this seems to
suggest Tiger is much weaker than Genius on the Palm. Or does Tiger do
more positional evaluation for each analysed position?

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Interested,
Richard

HD February 4th 04 01:01 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
Richard skrev:
I've got both Chess Tiger 15.1 and Genius 2.01 on a crappy Palm Zire
(16Mhz). I've noticed that during analysis Chess Tiger calculates
significantly fewer positions per second than Genius. For example,
Tiger rarely gets about 200p/s, while Genius calculates 1000p/s on the
same position.

I've only got a basic Zire, so there's no ARM processor take advantage
of Genius' native ARM engine.

I could understand a smaller different in pos/sec, but this seems to
suggest Tiger is much weaker than Genius on the Palm. Or does Tiger do
more positional evaluation for each analysed position?

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?


The very last part probably applies best.


Interested,
Richard



henri Arsenault February 4th 04 01:08 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:


So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri

Richard February 4th 04 07:08 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
henri Arsenault wrote in message
So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri


Thanks for the responses.

I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard

Lukino February 4th 04 07:47 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.


Any idea of Genius "force" in a Nokia s60 smartphone (it should have a 100
Mhz processor...)?

Thanks,

Luca



HD February 4th 04 11:06 PM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
Richard skrev:
henri Arsenault wrote in message

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?


Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri



Thanks for the responses.

I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard


There's only a clear advantage in the extra plies if they are more
accurate than the last plies of the other program. Therefore, when
talking about two different programs, its not that simple.

HD


Entropyfoe February 5th 04 02:11 AM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
HD is right, it is more complex.
If the two more ply are based on only a simple material evaluation function
[for example in the extreme], vs two ply less but with mobility, king safety,
pawn structure etc, it will compensate.

Further, the use of quiescence search and extensions require that the number
of plies be defined more precisley.

-Jay


I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard


There's only a clear advantage in the extra plies if they are more
accurate than the last plies of the other program. Therefore, when
talking about two different programs, its not that simple.

HD









Chris Kantack February 5th 04 02:45 AM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
In article ,
says...
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:


So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri

I agree with Henri on this. Prior to the ARM version (and when playing
Chess Tiger and ChessGenius on a non-ARM processor) Chess Tiger is a bit
stronger. I don't know if it is 200 points stronger but a bit stronger
nevertheless.

On the new ARM-based Palm's I believe ChessGenius reigns as champ.

Currently I'm getting ready to write a ChessGenius review. I already have
a review for Chess Tiger on the Palm at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kantack/l...chesstiger.htm
--
Chris Kantack
http://home.earthlink.net/~kantack/lcdchess/home.htm
(remove the "nospampls" from my email address if replying by email)

Geoff February 5th 04 03:02 AM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

After a major international tournament about 1919 or so, a reporter
interviewed the great Capablanca and some minor master who had defeated
Capablance in their individual game. The reporter asked Capablanca how many
moves he could see ahead. "Ten moves", replied the Cuban GM. When the
reporter asked the other master how many moves he saw ahead he replied "One
move." The reporter was puzzled. "If Capablanca sees 10 moves ahead and you
only see one move ahead, how could you win the game?" he asked. The master
replied, "I always see the right move."

Geoff

"Richard" wrote in message
om...
henri Arsenault wrote in message
So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri


Thanks for the responses.


No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard




Chet Marino February 5th 04 04:52 AM

Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second
 
I have noticed that Chess Genius is stronger on my new Zire 21 using
the ARM engine.


On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:45:50 GMT, Chris Kantack
wrote:

In article ,
says...
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:


So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri

I agree with Henri on this. Prior to the ARM version (and when playing
Chess Tiger and ChessGenius on a non-ARM processor) Chess Tiger is a bit
stronger. I don't know if it is 200 points stronger but a bit stronger
nevertheless.

On the new ARM-based Palm's I believe ChessGenius reigns as champ.

Currently I'm getting ready to write a ChessGenius review. I already have
a review for Chess Tiger on the Palm at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kantack/l...chesstiger.htm


Chet Marino
Westminster, CO


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